WTF Apple?

[MrSquished]

Per my experience selling corporate mobile solutions and it’s sort of old experience. Big IT doesn’t like android simply due to the update schedules, sure Samsung does critical updates fast but does ZTE or some cheap ass white box android from China ever update? That is the core problem. Updates are unknown with the small vendors and many people go cheap on their devices not as many as in the past but still plenty of cheap. Also android allows manufacturer apps which god knows what vulnerabilities a cheap android phones pre installed apps will have on day one, how many more on day 6 or 700?
This is the problem.

This is why I suggested above that IT departments say we're going to support these specific Samsung devices and these specific pixel devices because they get regular updates. Otherwise you're on your own.

Sure is the easiest way to just support Apple. Of course it is. The right answer is not always the easiest way though. It's unfair to expect IT departments to keep up with the myriad of different Android devices and different update schedules. But it's also a lot better for consumers to at least have the option of two different operating systems. So select the Android phones you'll support and put in the work. It's a lot better than having a monopoly

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This is why I suggested above that IT departments say we're going to support these specific Samsung devices and these specific pixel devices because they get regular updates. Otherwise you're on your own.

Sure is the easiest way to just support Apple. Of course it is. The right answer is not always the easiest way though. It's unfair to expect IT departments to keep up with the myriad of different Android devices and different update schedules. But it's also a lot better for consumers to at least have the option of two different operating systems. So select the Android phones you'll support and put in the work. It's a lot better than having a monopoly

IMO if a device is REQUIRED for work it should be like the old days where work PROVIDES you with that device.
Call me old school, I think it’s bullshit we are expected to pay for, maintain our devices that are required for work. I am not a damn Barber.

 

[repoman0]

LMAO that it’s on corporate IT departments to make sure there’s competition in the smartphone space rather than using the better solution for the job. The Apple “monopoly” is funny as shit too considering they have like 30% market share, max.

 

[MrSquished]

IMO if a device is REQUIRED for work it should be like the old days where work PROVIDES you with that device.
Call me old school, I think it’s bullshit we are expected to pay for, maintain our devices that are required for work. I am not a damn Barber.

Every one needs a cell phone for work now, I know many people who just like to use the phone they have. I think it's more than fair to give your employees more than one OS option. If all you have to do is let them know to use their preferred OS they just have to use these X Android phones, you should do it. Unless, again, you only want the easy way out. Your employees have needs as well, it might be useful to consider them. It's respectful to support the phones that are updated regularly and are more routine to support. Otherwise yes, you are just being lazy.

LMAO that it’s on corporate IT departments to make sure there’s competition in the smartphone space rather than using the better solution for the job. The Apple “monopoly” is funny as shit too considering they have like 30% market share, max.

See above. Ys. Businesses should take into consideration their employees. Crazy thought right. Also, I am talking about in the US, where market share is different. And it's not even in the US where Apple's anti-competitive practices with iPhones are being noticed. You do realize the EU is what prompted Apple switching to USB-C, and what also prompted them just recently opening up messaging features between platforms. They realize that this kind of anti-competitiveness is bad for consumers, and in many cases, those consumers might be your employees. And it's not like the EU is not going after Google for their shady bullshit too, they are, and that makes me happy too. But we are talking about phone's and phone OS's here.

I respect the opinion of the EU over the opinions of lazy IT workers on an online forum and also apple fanboys on a forum.

 

[repoman0]

Meh. I work at a defense and security focused non-profit (university affiliated). IT supports Windows, Mac OS, and goes to great pains to support Ubuntu and Redhat as well, including remotely through the VPN. Linux support is a huge PITA and time sink but they do it because that’s actually required by us, the employees. They don’t seem lazy to me whenever I deal with them.

They only support iPhones and won’t support Android because the latter is even more of a massive PITA to get locked down and secure. And nobody actually needs their work phone to be an Android device.

Blaming overworked IT departments and calling them lazy is certainly a take you can choose though but seems pretty anti-worker to me.

 

[MrSquished]

Meh. I work at a defense and security focused non-profit (university affiliated). IT supports Windows, Mac OS, and goes to great pains to support Ubuntu and Redhat as well, including remotely through the VPN. Linux support is a huge PITA and time sink but they do it because that’s actually required by us, the employees. They don’t seem lazy to me whenever I deal with them.

They only support iPhones and won’t support Android because the latter is even more of a massive PITA to get locked down and secure. And nobody actually needs their work phone to be an Android device.

Blaming overworked IT departments and calling them lazy is certainly a take you can choose though but seems pretty anti-worker to me.

The issue with Android from what I've been told by IT workers is all the hardware is impossible to support due to so many manufacturers and their non standardized update schedules and length of support for a product. Which I totally get and is totally correct. So, support the Android phones that have been proven to support properly, it will be a small limited amount, and all would be fine - and if other manufacturers want in on that business, it's up to them to get their shit in order with updates, etc..

I am not anti-worker at all, if this means a company should hire more workers so the workload is more even, then that has to happen. I'm all for a 4-day 32 hour workweek. If the workload is too much to support that, then more workers need to be hired.

Nobody needs their workphone to be an Android device, but many people want their preferred OS to be their all in one phone, work and personal. It's way more consumer friendly and employee friendly. So no, that should not be overlooked. It's not like they are asking you to support some niche OS with 3% market share. But at the same time, they can't expect to pick up any Android phone and it be supported, due to all the variables we established. But here is a selection that we can support that is reasonable.

 

[KMFJD]

What does a sustainable smartphone look like?

In a bid to reduce global electronic waste, Fairphone has created a smartphone that owners can repair themselves. What makes its technology so sustainable?

www.bbc.com

Interesting new cell phone, supposedly has all of googles tracking shit removed (phone itself is still traceable )

 

[lxskllr]

That's the phone I want if they ever decide to make a real push into the US.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What does a sustainable smartphone look like?

In a bid to reduce global electronic waste, Fairphone has created a smartphone that owners can repair themselves. What makes its technology so sustainable?

www.bbc.com

Interesting new cell phone, supposedly has all of googles tracking shit removed (phone itself is still traceable )

Sure however where is it made and what does the person likely in China add to it.
What about apps?
What about app support?
What about security how will these be updated and how often?

 

[lxskllr]

Sure however where is it made and what does the person likely in China add to it.
What about apps?
What about app support?
What about security how will these be updated and how often?

Fairphone 4 has an incredible 5-year warranty, aims for 6 years of updates

If you want a smartphone with a long life, Fairphone is leading the industry.

arstechnica.com

 

[Captante]

Sounds really awesome .... TGTBT in fact. (sorry) I wouldn't bank on having a "warranty" past mid-2024.

Not in the sense that I think they're lying mind you ... in the sense that I don't believe it will make $. (although it 100% deserves to from the sound of it and if it succeeds I'd buy one)

 

[lxskllr]

Fairphone2 was released in 2015 with android 5.1. It received it's last update this year servicing android 10.

Fairphone 2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was gonna mention this isn't a new company, but didn't want to be pedantic, and "new" is relative. I've been watching these guys for a long time. Biggest flaw is a sparse NA presence.

 

[Red Squirrel]

We really do need more options for "clean" phones that are not tied to Google/Apple or any megacorp. Closest thing is putting a custom rom but if there's any stuff going on at chip level a custom rom won't help there. Not sure how common that is though?

Downside of these options is no access to mainstream apps because of how they are only accessible within the closed garden ecosystem of the major brands. I wish this whole app thing would die though, 99% of apps could just be a web front end.

 

[Ajay]

LMAO that it’s on corporate IT departments to make sure there’s competition in the smartphone space rather than using the better solution for the job. The Apple “monopoly” is funny as shit too considering they have like 30% market share, max.

And Apple's take is something like 90% of all profits made in the smartphone market. Kind of nuts.

 

[Zorba]

I mean... why would you?

Because it's data over IP, it should be an open protocol. Same reason why AT&T is forced to connect a phone call to Verizon phone.

 

[Zorba]

What percentage of customers need to transfer data via a cord at speeds of greater than 400mbs?
That is your answer.

My guess is 0.0001% do this. Literally there are probably fewer than 10 people in the US that MUST be able to do this.
I cannot think of a time in greater than 20 years I had to move a large file to my mobile device with a cord other than the old school contact synch with blackberry

I watch some back packing videos, and they film, edit, etc on their phones then back it up to external drives. I'm sure they could make due with 400 mbs, but I'm sure they'd prefer faster.

 

[Zorba]

Per my experience selling corporate mobile solutions and it’s sort of old experience. Big IT doesn’t like android simply due to the update schedules, sure Samsung does critical updates fast but does ZTE or some cheap ass white box android from China ever update? That is the core problem. Updates are unknown with the small vendors and many people go cheap on their devices not as many as in the past but still plenty of cheap. Also android allows manufacturer apps which god knows what vulnerabilities a cheap android phones pre installed apps will have on day one, how many more on day 6 or 700?
This is the problem.

My IT department offer one Android phone for like 3 years, then the next flagship. At any given time they only have to support 2 phones.

 

[MrSquished]

I'm pretty sure the EU is going to mandate that phone batteries be easily replaceable by the consumer. That's the main thing. That and the screen.

edit: yes they have, to take effect in 2027

EU User-Replaceable Battery Mandate Leads Global Effort

The European Union’s recent law champions a multinational policy trend toward swappable batteries.

www.exponent.com

 

[manly]

Uh what. It's easy to secure windows, very very easy. Microsoft actually provides enterprise grade tools to manage and secure their software with.

Now there's lots of insecure software, but that's on the software vendors, not Microsoft.

Edit: It occurs to be we may still be talking about phones. I wasn't accounting for people attempting to secure the insecurable. Carry on.

The grand irony in this thread is all the congratulating of Apple at being strong at enterprise device management. Traditionally they SUCK at supporting the enterprise; as you alluded to, they won't even tell you what the official support policy of macOS on specific hardware is. Geeks know that unofficially it's about 6 years from original launch but you're at the whim of Apple's decision. Many veteran Apple watchers believe macOS support will end sooner for the last Intel models from 2018- .

The main reason iPhone has widely supported MDM isn't because Apple is so awesome but because their 50% mobile market share demands it. And obviously for IT departments it's easier to support up to 5 years of iPhones that capture half the U.S. market, rather than a half dozen other OEMs with dozens of phone models. I don't do corp IT but realistically you'd only need to support Google Pixel and Samsung phones; all the rest just don't matter unless you're running a relaxed BYOD shop.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The grand irony in this thread is all the congratulating of Apple at being strong at enterprise device management. Traditionally they SUCK at supporting the enterprise; as you alluded to, they won't even tell you what the official support policy of macOS on specific hardware is. Geeks know that unofficially it's about 6 years from original launch but you're at the whim of Apple's decision. Many veteran Apple watchers believe macOS support will end sooner for the last Intel models from 2018- .

The main reason iPhone has widely supported MDM isn't because Apple is so awesome but because their 50% mobile market share demands it. And obviously for IT departments it's easier to support up to 5 years of iPhones that capture half the U.S. market, rather than a half dozen other OEMs with dozens of phone models. I don't do corp IT but realistically you'd only need to support Google Pixel and Samsung phones; all the rest just don't matter unless you're running a relaxed BYOD shop.

Or just not caring. I work for a university, we just have some help desk guys that know how to add outlook and shared mailboxes/calendars onto phones. I'm not really sure what more should be needed unless it's a mobile-forward company (in which case, they should supply the mobile).

 

[Exterous]

The grand irony in this thread is all the congratulating of Apple at being strong at enterprise device management. Traditionally they SUCK at supporting the enterprise; as you alluded to, they won't even tell you what the official support policy of macOS on specific hardware is. Geeks know that unofficially it's about 6 years from original launch but you're at the whim of Apple's decision. Many veteran Apple watchers believe macOS support will end sooner for the last Intel models from 2018- .

The main reason iPhone has widely supported MDM isn't because Apple is so awesome but because their 50% mobile market share demands it. And obviously for IT departments it's easier to support up to 5 years of iPhones that capture half the U.S. market, rather than a half dozen other OEMs with dozens of phone models. I don't do corp IT but realistically you'd only need to support Google Pixel and Samsung phones; all the rest just don't matter unless you're running a relaxed BYOD shop.

Eh you have to separate the conversation between computer endpoint and phone if you're talking enterprise management. Windows is way better at endpoint management than Apple and Apple regularly causes substantial frustrations for endpoint management. But for phones? I'll take Apple over Android. And Google really shot themselves in the foot with that dual profile data loss issue - at least for the orgs I engage with. You get a CIO or CEO or two who lose data and the word gets around to be wary.

 

[MrSquished]

Eh you have to separate the conversation between computer endpoint and phone if you're talking enterprise management. Windows is way better at endpoint management than Apple and Apple regularly causes substantial frustrations for endpoint management. But for phones? I'll take Apple over Android. And Google really shot themselves in the foot with that dual profile data loss issue - at least for the orgs I engage with. You get a CIO or CEO or two who lose data and the word gets around to be wary.

Nah you have already spoken with not caring about how certain elements of the walled garden are terrible for the end user, the consumer, via leveraging monopoly like power. It's shitty when Google has and does it in it's purview, and it's shitty when Apple does it, but that's beyond you to accept, because it makes your job easier. It's the easy way out solution , because nobody should expect an IT department to support the myriad of Android hardware from so many manufacturers with unestablished security and OS updates, but, what would be reasonable and what would be best for your employees, would be to pick a few Android models which are regularly supported from Samsung and Google, and support those too. For your end users benefit. Most people dont' want to carry around two phones so you are pushing them into one because you want to keep it only as simple as possible for yourself. Sometimes the easy way out is not the best way out. Pick a pretty easy middle ground - iPhones and these few models of Android we support. Simple. Yes it might be more work but sometimes that works out better.

Have seen reports of upgrades to iOS 17 resulting in a total loss of data.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Geeks know that unofficially it's about 6 years from original launch but you're at the whim of Apple's decision.

Maybe Apple supports the expensive models for longer periods? My iPhone 6S Plus got some iOS 15 point release update not two weeks before.

 

[igor_kavinski]

what would be reasonable and what would be best for your employees, would be to pick a few Android models which are regularly supported from Samsung and Google, and support those too. For your end users benefit.

For corporate use Pixel phones, Google could have a reasonable annual subscription fee to support them with security updates and any other updates that may be required to maintain access to their Play store.

 

[manly]

Maybe Apple supports the expensive models for longer periods? My iPhone 6S Plus got some iOS 15 point release update not two weeks before.

No, it's not that. iPhone is so wildly lucrative to Apple and such a huge business that they decided a long time ago to support it for a long time (compared to the rest of the phone industry). As far as I know, Pro models aren't treated any better than non-Pro models. Although the Mac business line is healthy and not small, it's no longer considered strategically important by outsiders. Some may recall that prior to Apple silicon Macs being released in 2020, some longtime Mac heads were so frustrated with feeling neglected as customers that they hoped Apple would spin off the Mac business unit into a separate company.

Apple has taken steps more recently to boost their Services business, so that their results depend a lot less on whether Americans are still buying iPhones. IIRC iPhone peaked at almost 2/3 of Apple's gross revenue, and now is closer to half.

If you look at the underlying tech, PC hardware has long gotten overly powerful for the average consumer. What I mean is that most people don't need to upgrade PCs frequently, IF the software is still supported and getting security updates. So Apple's support strategy was actually counter-intuitive. Both Macs and mobile got roughly 6 years of software support, but in reality Macs could feasibly be supported for even longer if they wanted to mimic Microsoft Windows support lifecycle. Just for argument's sake, a 10 year old PC (Haswell!) runs Windows 10 adequately if it has an SSD and 8+ GB of RAM. A 10 year old Mac would have lost software support 4 years ago, unless you use OpenCore Legacy Patcher which is unsupported and often comes with compromises. A lot of mid 2010s iMacs are discarded/recycled because what else do you do with good hardware when it no longer runs modern software?

OTOH up until about 2021, phone SoCs were still evolving so consumers were still feeling some excitement of upgrading every few years (or at least the thrill of a fresh battery that could get you through a full day).

What I'm trying to say here is that Apple isn't some paragon of enterprise support for devices. They do it because it sells iPhones, and because CIOs need to be able to support fleets of iPhones. Once in a long while, they'll patch some critical 0-day vulnerability on an ancient device but that isn't actual support. It's just a one-off favor to a tiny fraction of their customers, when there is an active exploit in the wild.