WTF have you done to help Haiti?

[DietDrThunder]

We are already in the top 3 spending per pupil (secondary) in the US, exactly how much more money do you think needs to be tossed in to actually get the results you want? Perhaps the problems with education in the US have little or nothing to do with the amount of money being spent on it.

I agree. Don't believe the hype that school teachers earn a small salary. In the Crowley School District in Fort Worth/Crowley TX, starting salary for an elementary teacher (k through 4th), is $38,000 a year. Within 5 years they will earn a salary of $44,000. They get every holiday imaginable, plus a few more, and a nice two week winter break, and at least 2 months off for the summer. We had several incidents where the teachers didn't know the material the were supposed to teach. One incident, the teacher misgraded one of my kid's math exams because the teacher didn't understand how to find the area of a rectangle (or the area of anything for that matter). I was calm and I went to talk with the teacher and explained that the answers weren't wrong. I did several examples (I'm an engineer for cripes sake), but she insisted that because the answers were in her answer key a certian way, her answers were right and she wouldn't change the grade. I took the issue to the principle and ended up in a heated discussion with my kid's teacher and the principle. This was one of many incidents and my wife and I decided we had to make the sacrifice and pull our kid out of public schools.

 

[Deeko]

I agree. Don't believe the hype that school teachers earn a small salary. In the Crowley School District in Fort Worth/Crowley TX, starting salary for an elementary teacher (k through 4th), is $38,000 a year. Within 5 years they will earn a salary of $44,000. They get every holiday imaginable, plus a few more, and a nice two week winter break, and at least 2 months off for the summer. We had several incidents where the teachers didn't know the material the were supposed to teach. One incident, the teacher misgraded one of my kid's math exams because the teacher didn't understand how to find the area of a rectangle (or the area of anything for that matter). I was calm and I went to talk with the teacher and explained that the answers weren't wrong. I did several examples (I'm an engineer for cripes sake), but she insisted that because the answers were in her answer key a certian way, her answers were right and she wouldn't change the grade. I took the issue to the principle and ended up in a heated discussion with my kid's teacher and the principle. This was one of many incidents and my wife and I decided we had to make the sacrifice and pull our kid out of public schools.

So you have an issue with a particular teacher and the way the school handler her, that has nothing to do with teacher salaries. Besides, lets be serious, 38-44k is not exactly good money, the average engineer can make well more than that straight out of college. And teachers don't exactly have "off" the entire time they aren't teaching students. They have required inservice days, they have to make lesson plans, grade papers, etc. On top of the fact that many states REQUIRE them to continue their own education, out of their own pocket. Does your engineering job force you to get a Masters outside of work hours on your own dollar?

 

[Hacp]

We are already in the top 3 spending per pupil (secondary) in the US, exactly how much more money do you think needs to be tossed in to actually get the results you want? Perhaps the problems with education in the US have little or nothing to do with the amount of money being spent on it.

Most of that spending is going to unioned janitors and staff. In NYC, most teachers are required to have their masters. Useless for liberal arts but its quite an accomplishment to receive a masters in a science.

 

[mizzou]

you can never pay a good teacher enough money, but a horrible teacher will always be overpaid.

 

[Strk]

So you have an issue with a particular teacher and the way the school handler her, that has nothing to do with teacher salaries. Besides, lets be serious, 38-44k is not exactly good money, the average engineer can make well more than that straight out of college. And teachers don't exactly have "off" the entire time they aren't teaching students. They have required inservice days, they have to make lesson plans, grade papers, etc. On top of the fact that many states REQUIRE them to continue their own education, out of their own pocket. Does your engineering job force you to get a Masters outside of work hours on your own dollar?

$38-44k is above average for most parts of this country.

 

[DietDrThunder]

So you have an issue with a particular teacher and the way the school handler her, that has nothing to do with teacher salaries. Besides, lets be serious, 38-44k is not exactly good money, the average engineer can make well more than that straight out of college. And teachers don't exactly have "off" the entire time they aren't teaching students. They have required inservice days, they have to make lesson plans, grade papers, etc. On top of the fact that many states REQUIRE them to continue their own education, out of their own pocket. Does your engineering job force you to get a Masters outside of work hours on your own dollar?

No, it was not just one teacher. It was several teachers over the 5 years (K through 4th) that my daughter went to school there. I guess I should have qualified the statement with, they get paid damn well for not knowing how to teach. And yes, Engineers on average could make a higher starting salary out of college, but not in this economy. My company shifted the pay ranges down this year, so a starting engineer will earn $42K, just 4k more than the school teacher. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and say they only get two months worth of actual time off. If you factor the pay this way, the starting school teacher will earn $21.50 an hour where as the starting engineer will earn $21.00 an hour (based on two weeks vacation and holidays). By the way, the Crowley school district only requires a teaching certificate, not a masters degree to teach K through 4th, and there is no requirement for them to obtain a masters, but the district will pay for those who want to earn one.

 

[Deeko]

Nice number crunching to skew things in your favor. Many, many engineers get a good deal more time off than that. You're also factoring extreme lows in pay for engineers - when I graduated college just 2.5 years ago averages were well over 50k, you think it won't get back there? Basically, you're undercutting the true income/potential of the engineering track to try to balance things out. And ignoring the fact that the ceiling for an engineer is much higher than the starting salary.

Basically....engineers get paid a good deal more than teachers no matter how you slice it.

And I'm sorry you had a crappy experience with apparently your crappy school district. Make changes with your ballot if you don't like it. Just because that one district is sub par does not mean that it applies to all public school teachers.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Yes, you are right, engineers do have more potential income. What I was trying to state is that in an area with really poor ranking schools, these teachers make damn good money (plus pension, my work no longer gives a pension to new workers) for what the results they get. According to the 2005-2007 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, the median income for a household in the city was $37,074, and the median income for a family was $42,939. So, I'd still have to say in our area, school teachers make damn good money.

Go to this website http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/results.jsf

Change the categories to Best Public Schools, Texas, Fort Worth, 10 miles.

Then click on any area within that circle (I live within that circle), and see their ratings. It pretty much sucks all around my area. There are very few areas that rank higher than fair. There was another website but you have to pay to get the 2008 ratings.

 

[meltdown75]

holy threadjack

 

[Deeko]

Yes - teaching does pay more than the national average, which takes into account households where the primary income earner is a janitor. How does it compare to jobs requiring a B.S.? Or, jobs requiring a masters, which in many places, teaching does?

Look at a high school math teacher, or physics teacher. Getting a B.S. in math or physics is just as hard as getting one in engineering, those aren't exactly cupcake degrees. Then take a look at the income potential for that math teacher vs the engineer.

I'm not saying teachers are broke and should be averaging 80k, just that considering the education many of them require, it IS comparatively low.

 

[JRich]

I don't care.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Who wants to talk about Haiti anyway. They're screwed no matter what, we'll pour millions of dollars at them with little results. Sounds like the Fort Worth area school districts to me. OK, I'll agree with you that I should not have made a nationwide comparison, but just a Dallas/Fort Worth comparison.

Here is what is specified for a high school math teacher in Crowley. Nowhere does it require them to have a B.S. in anything. I'd be happy for teachers to make $80K a year if they could show results.

ID: POS20090502000015
Name: Math Teacher 10-12 (NCHS)
Location: North Crowley High School
Posting Start Date: 12/08/2009
Posting End Date: until filled
Overview: Teachers will utilize a variety of instructional techniques and learning opportunities to enable students to develop competencies and skills which will ensure student success in the assigned suibject area and in society.

Preferred applicants must also be able to be highly qualifeid in secondary math either by certification, degree major, or college coursework hours.

Qualification: Qualified applicants will hold appropriate teacher certification and endorsements for the subject taught. The applicant must meet highly qualified standards according to No Child Left Behind.

Applicants with probationary certificates and/or one-year permits must have passed the required content examination for appropriate TX teacher certification prior to applying for this position. You will be required to pass the Pedagogy and Professional Responsibilities test (PPR) by April 1, 2009. All applicants with probationary certificates must be able to hold a certificate that will remain valid until June 4, 2010 unless the applicant has been issued his or her standard certificate during the 2009-10 school year

 

[Deeko]

What is required to get the TX teacher certification?

 

[Possessed Freak]

As a US citizen, I have been forced to donate beyond what I think I should have to Haiti.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Basically take the following training sessions and pass the assessment.

Session Location Map & Link
Mid Cities
Winter 2010

Closed—Session full Ruthe Jackson Center
3113 S. Carrier Pwky.
Grand Prairie, TX 75052
Map | Venue Web Site

Dates:
Time Subject Location
Jan. 9 (Sat) 9am - 4pm Effective Teaching / Entering the Profession R. J. Center
Jan. 19 (Tue) 6pm - 9pm CM 1: Teaching in a Respectful Classroom R. J. Center
Jan. 23 (Sat) 9am - 4pm Child Development / Lesson Design R. J. Center
Jan. 26 (Tue) 6pm - 9pm CM 2: Procedures R. J. Center
Jan. 30 (Sat) 9am - 4pm Lesson Development / Reading Strategies R. J. Center
Feb. 10 (Wed) 6pm - 9pm CM 3: Discipline Plan R. J. Center
Feb. 13 (Sat) 9am - 4pm Special Populations / Differentiated Instruction R. J. Center
Feb. 16 (Tue) 6pm - 9pm CM 4: Professional Communication R. J. Center
Feb. 27 (Sat) 9am - 4pm Assessments I & II R. J. Center

 

[JRich]

As a US citizen, I have been forced to donate beyond what I think I should have to Haiti.

Forced?

 

[Possessed Freak]

Forced?

Yep, I certainly didn't approve of spending any money in Haiti. Yet somehow it is being sent there. I would say those in charge are forcing me to pay.

 

[KMFJD]

Yep, I certainly didn't approve of spending any money in Haiti. Yet somehow it is being sent there. I would say those in charge are forcing me to pay.

Why spend good government money to help? Damnit it should only be used to kill!!

 

[surfsatwerk]

Yep, I certainly didn't approve of spending any money in Haiti. Yet somehow it is being sent there. I would say those in charge are forcing me to pay.

I would say you fail to grasp the nature of our government and what taxes are.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Why spend good government money to help? Damnit it should only be used to kill!!

I am all for people giving to whatever charity they want. I am against the government acting as a charity on my behalf.