WTF is with bombing Red Cross buildings?!!?

sMashPiranha

Senior member
Oct 15, 1999
580
0
0
Can someone help me make some sense of this? Why the hell are bombs being dropped on Red Cross buildings? Have any of you ever seen a Red Cross building in the field? They have big frigging Red Crosses all over them, how could anyone mistake them for taliban strongholds, ammo dumps or whatever the hell they are mixing them up with. These smart bombs are only supposed to hit what you aim them at. My uncle worked on a weapons guidance system that was so accurate you could drop a smartbomb right down saddams chimney. Are these guys drunk or something? Sorry but it pisses me off, I know quite a few Red Cross people and I collect for them every year, and I really think this sucks.
 

damien6

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,256
0
0
Wasn't it rumored that Talibans were using those Red Cross building to hide/store equipments or raiding them for their own needs? Regardless of what that building used to be, it's now in the hands of Taliban or in their controlled area so I don't see any problem blowing them to pieces.
 

sMashPiranha

Senior member
Oct 15, 1999
580
0
0
Bollocks, the Red Cross knows quite well what buildings it has and has relayed that information to the U.S. If the Red Cross buildings are still getting bombed then I would be suspicious that they are being bombed on purpose.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
On a less hostile, but sadder note, it's called war, and accidents happen. There is no polite way to bomb the living piss out of an enemy and not have a few shells hit an unintended target, even with very smart bombs.
 

Sugadaddy

Banned
May 12, 2000
6,495
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0


<< Bollocks, the Red Cross knows quite well what buildings it has and has relayed that information to the U.S. If the Red Cross buildings are still getting bombed then I would be suspicious that they are being bombed on purpose. >>




Never occurred to you that the buildings could be used for something else than giving away food and treating people? If I were a Taliban soldier, it'd be the first place I'd think of if I had to go hide somewhere...
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
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<< Wasn't it rumored that Talibans were using those Red Cross building to hide/store equipments or raiding them for their own needs? Regardless of what that building used to be, it's now in the hands of Taliban or in their controlled area so I don't see any problem blowing them to pieces. >>



Wasn't the first Red Cross warehouse that got blown up full of humanitarian aid for civilians? What military motive is the to destroy it? And why did they destroy the office of the UN Anti-mine organisation (who is there to clear out the millions of mines).

Because those bombs are extremely accurate, then the reason lies either in

A) capabilities of the pilots. Meaning, they make mistakes. Then they should be replaced by more capable pilots

B) US-intelligence that has gathered the info regarding Taleban-targets. But if the info is incorrect, then you couldn't fight the war effectively.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
If the Red Cross buildings are still getting bombed then I would be suspicious that they are being bombed on purpose.

exactly... so if there's a purpose... then where's the problem?
 

sMashPiranha

Senior member
Oct 15, 1999
580
0
0


<< A) capabilities of the pilots. Meaning, they make mistakes. Then they should be replaced by more capable pilots >>



Yeah, they probably should have contracted the whole operation to the I.A.F.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0


<< If the Red Cross buildings are still getting bombed then I would be suspicious that they are being bombed on purpose.

exactly... so if there's a purpose... then where's the problem?
>>



The problem is that there's no evidence of Taleban using those buildings. To my knowledge USA has not said anything of the sort (even though it would be beneficial for them to say so). And, of course, those building are full of humanitarian aid that is desperately needed there.
 

Zblan

Member
Sep 26, 2001
100
0
0
Red Cross Stunned by Bombing
By NAOMI KOPPEL, Associated Press Writer

GENEVA (AP) - The international Red Cross has in the past seen its aid supplies looted, its staff threatened, attacked and even murdered. But it was stunned when U.S. warplanes bombed its aid compound in the Afghan capital, Kabul - for a second time.

``The word 'astounded' comes to mind,'' said Kim Gordon-Bates, spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, Saturday. A day earlier, the United States dropped eight tons of bombs on the compound, setting fire to three of the four buildings still standing after the previous attack on Oct. 16.

Add that to the fact that its expatriate staff is in exile, visits to prisoners of war have stopped and the Afghan winter is coming fast, and the ICRC is having a hard time carrying out what it claims is vital relief work in Afghanistan (news - web sites).

``Afghanistan is an incredibly difficult place to work in. It's a challenge, it always has been a challenge,'' said Gordon-Bates, who was head of an ICRC office in Gulbahar, north of Kabul, until earlier this year.

But he admitted that the problems have been compounded since the Sept. 11 terror attacks on the United States - which led to the withdrawal of all the ICRC international staff in Afghanistan on safety grounds - and the start of U.S. airstrikes.

Of all the aid agencies working in Afghanistan, the Swiss-based ICRC had the best contacts with both sides in the conflict and gained respect as a neutral body.

In their role as enforcers of the Geneva Conventions governing treatment of prisoners of war, Gordon-Bates and his staff visited prisoners to check on their conditions and to take messages to their families. They had the full approval of the Taliban and its enemy, the northern alliance. They also arranged meetings between enemy commanders.

But it was a job that could only be done by non-Afghans, and so it has stopped since international staff withdrew in mid-September.

``It was extremely rewarding because there we could see that the ICRC was a neutral intermediary, trusted both by the Taliban and the northern alliance,'' said Gordon-Bates.

``Most of us are feeling a bit sad and dispossessed about what happened. We had established a working relationship. There was a mutual respect.''

Traditionally the ICRC has been the most persistent and the most respected humanitarian organization in countries at war, staying put when the United Nations (news - web sites) pulls out and getting access where others could not. As a result, its staff face some of the greatest dangers.

In April six Red Cross workers were hacked to death in eastern Congo, recalling for many workers the 1996 murder of six Red Cross nurses shot to death in their beds in Chechnya (news - web sites). ICRC staff members have been the targets of kidnappings in a number of countries, including Georgia, Russia, Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia.

Since the withdrawal of all foreign workers from the country in September, about 1,000 Afghan ICRC staffers have continued to work. But it has been difficult to maintain contact with them, and they still face many dangers and obstacles in doing their work.

After U.S. planes first hit one of the buildings in the Kabul aid compound on Oct. 16, the ICRC responded by ``informing the U.S. authorities once again of the location of its facilities.''

Gordon-Bates said he did not at first believe Friday's news that the compound - in which every building had a huge flag with a red cross on its roof - had been targeted again, and said the ICRC had so far received no explanation from the Pentagon (news - web sites).

The U.S. Defense Department admitted to reporters that the compound had been deliberately targeted and blamed ``human error'' for the mistake. It added that one of the bombs had missed its target and landed in a residential area of Kabul.

Gordon-Bates said the ICRC ``deplored'' the bombings but its biggest concern now was to ensure that there was no third mistake.

``Maybe flags on the roof and notifying them of our position is not enough. We will probably have to adapt,'' he said.

 

Antoneo

Diamond Member
May 25, 2001
3,911
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0
You do realize that in a "wartime" situation (or anytime for that matter), the government does not release all of its information to the press for public consumption. So if its so blatantly obvious that its a Red Cross building and we are using smart bombs that can go into Sadam's chimney, maybe there is a real good reason to "accidently" hit one?
 

Hossenfeffer

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
7,462
1
0
Given that the bombs are not 100% accurate and still, in part, require human input, this is unfortunate (to say the least) but not especially surprising. When you take into account the enormous number of bombs, you're all but guaranteed to have some miss their mark. Say that a bomb takes a numeric input of coordinates... We've seen how websites can misplace a decimal point in their pricing, what's so different with a bomb?

2 times is a bit sketchy...
 

BlackSoul

Senior member
Feb 13, 2001
384
0
0


<< Bollocks, the Red Cross knows quite well what buildings it has and has relayed that information to the U.S. If the Red Cross buildings are still getting bombed then I would be suspicious that they are being bombed on purpose. >>



Oh boy, looks like the military is busted, you broke the big conspiracy. As long as you already know, we are also poisoning the food we are dropping AND we are using chemical weapons.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
Smart bomb, Laser guided, or Satellite guided.. they still are machines and they dont always work as intended. They still are 90+ percent on target and 1000 percent more accurate than dumb bombs. You dont seriously think the US is looking for more reasons to have angry protests against them do you? !
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0


<< You do realize that in a "wartime" situation (or anytime for that matter), the government does not release all of its information to the press for public consumption. So if its so blatantly obvious that its a Red Cross building and we are using smart bombs that can go into Sadam's chimney, maybe there is a real good reason to "accidently" hit one? >>



So, it's would be worse for USA to say something like "Taleban is using those buildings as a weapons-warehouse, that's why we targeted them" or "We have reliable intelligence saying that they are used for military purposes, but we can't be more specific" than to say "Ooops, sorry! Oh look, I did it again!". I don't think so.

Off-topic: w00t! Pushing 1000 posts!
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0


<< Smart bomb, Laser guided, or Satellite guided.. they still are machines and they dont always work as intended. They still are 90+ percent on target and 1000 percent more accurate than dumb bombs. >>



Byt what is weird is that of the three missed bombs we know of, two just happened to hit Red Cross facilites. No, that's four "missed" bombs, two hit Red Cross, one hit UN Anti-mine organisation and fourth hit the residental area.

What are the odds of two out of four missed bombs to hit Red Cross facilites? And a third one to hit UN office?
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
So, it's would be worse for USA to say something like "Taleban is using those buildings as a weapons-warehouse, that's why we targeted them" or "We have reliable intelligence saying that they are used for military purposes, but we can't be more specific" than to say "Ooops, sorry! Oh look, I did it again!". I don't think so.

it's entirely possible, letting on that they have such knowledge would put a source at risk.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
if you reject the assertions that this is either error or because there is strategic value in bombing the red cross buildings, then *what* do you propose? that the government hates the red cross? you're calling conspiracy, but you don't give any motive.
 

Spagina

Senior member
Dec 31, 2000
565
0
0
You guys do realize that there is A LOT of information that the military does not wish to disclose. Disclosing this information may give away how they acquired it and that could become extremely deadly for any people we have in the field that are relaying this information. Unless anyone here is serving as a Military General or is on some type of Government intelligence committee, our lack of information on this will make us all look like idiots, as well as the media. I'm sure the U.S. would rather say, "Yeah, it was an accident." instead of saying, "We have spies in the Taliban telling us they are keeping military hardware in there, etc, etc, etc."
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
You only hear about the missed bombs that hit something significant. In Iraq there were thousands of missed targets where the munitions fell "harmlessly" into the sand.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
0
0
They could simply say "We have our reasons to bomb those targets, but we can't give any details". No intelligence-source is jeopardised.

Taleban and bin Laden are no morons. They know what US Military is capable of. They wouldn't think that bombing Red Cross buildings TWICE is just a freakish accident. They would know something is going on.

Right now, only US goverment and Taleban/bin Laden knows if there's more to those bombings. There's nothing to lose by providing SOME information, but there ALOT to lose by not saying a thing.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
1
0
Blame it on the weather. The wind was blowing 100 MPH and dust storms are all over Afghanistan.
 
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