WTF!!!!!! - Virginia Tech

[Muse]

But I don't want a gun. I don't want to shoot anyone. Why would I want to live in that society? I want less guns. Even here where the act of carrying a loaded handgun on the street will get you 5 years in jail there are too many. I can't imaging what's it's like in the American south where everyone and his brother has one.

Yep, you people in the UK have the right idea. I think 5 years, no ifs ands or buts would get a lot of people's attention. Now, a lot of guys in the US are on trips with their guns. I live next to Oakland, CA, where there were around 130+ homicides last year and of course, most of them involved handguns.

I don't like it. A lot of innocent people are getting killed. Little kids, people who have nothing to do with gang activity. I constantly hear tragic stories. I have a collection of bullets I've found on the streets, mostly unused bullets. Check this - I recently found a bullet embedded in my living room wall, the inside. It had probably been there for decades, but someone evidently fired a gun inside the house.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Dari
The Chief of the University Police Department and the President should be fired for not shutting the school down when there was a killer on the loose. HTF do you not alert everyone and call the first killings "an isolated incident" when the killer was still free? Assholes.

yeh, they probably even supplied the guy with ammo. :roll:

listen, you don't know all the facts. so why do you think you have the right to judge?

Media Should Back Off Blame Game at Virginia Tech

Monday, April 16 2007 @ 09:40 PM EDT

Media has now switched from reporting a tragedy to laying blame on school officials

BBSNews Commentary 2007-04-16 -- Major media has now moved from reporting the tragedy at Virginia Tech straight to the blame game just hours after this senseless string of murders. Apparently not all of the next of kin have even been notified about the status of student or faculty, and the media, including Paula Zahn at CNN are trying to elicit Virginia Tech students and other "experts" to blame school or police officials for the tragedy.

The facts are simply not in yet. There is no excuse for such poor performance on the part of talking heads to make all these guesses and imply that it is school officials and police who are at fault for a whacked out gunman or gunmen who actually committed the shootings.

According to reports so far from two separate news conferences, there was a shooting early this morning about 7:15 am at Virginia Tech. Campus authorities and local police responded to that crime scene within minutes and started an investigation. From preliminary evidence and witness reports from the scene, police were led to believe that they were dealing with a single scene and the shooter had fled the campus.

They were continuing their investigation of the original scene when the shootings broke out at Norris Hall about two hours later where a further thirty-one people were killed in quick succession. The Virginia Tech news Web site is still carrying a banner from that incident that warns:

"Emergency! 04/16/2007 9:58 am Gunman on Campus; Stay Indoors and Away from Windows See details"

And that was fair enough. This had suddenly elevated from what was thought to be an isolated incident into a full fledged "school shooting" that parents and educators in the United States universally fear, and an all campus "gunman" warning was certainly now warranted for the second incident hours later after the first.

To the students who were prodded by Paula Zahn to lay blame for the deaths on school officials rather than the shooter(s) and who resisted her lurid attempt; they are to be commended for putting her in her place and letting her know they were more inclined to blame the actual perpetrator as opposed to school officials or police.

And to the expert who appeared on CNN earlier claiming to hear two separate types of gunfire and speculating about police using M-16 type weapons towards the gunman, he should be ashamed for making such a claim while admitting that he could not even see the accompanying video.

We cannot claim any expertise, but in our newsroom it was felt that Jamal Al Bhagouti's cell phone microphone was picking up some sort of flapping plastic noise from the extreme wind. The almost evenly spaced gunfire seemed to be of one caliber, and watching the police officials in the video who were trying to approach the building through two separate entrances towards the end of the video, the loud "bang" that was heard seemed to happen just after the entrances were breeched. It sounded like a "flash bang" grenade followed by the usual law enforcement rush-in and shouting in the first seconds of them trying to secure a volatile "shots fired" victims-hostage scene.

There are many unknowns in this incident that is now reportedly the most deadly mass shooting incident in United States history. What is clearly known, is that there is no precedent for this kind of shooting, no act of terrorism can be completely protected from at all times and speculating that what amounts to be a small city could be simply and completely shut down in a matter of minutes is irresponsible reporting at best.

It is also irresponsible and unfair to the parents, relatives, faculty and the public to start laying blame on officials for what is by all accounts an act with no precedent. Major media should refrain from hyping scenarios and stereotypical "profiler" theories and report the actual facts that are verified by officials on the scene. Sensationalizing "gaps" between what police thought was an isolated crime scene, that suddenly turned into a possible connection between the two shootings is wrong and officials have not yet made such a link official.

CNN producers, reporters and anchors especially should take a page out of former CNN anchor Aaron Brown's book and report what you know and not what you think. Don't lower yourselves to the cheesy sensationalism of other "news" networks in reporting this horrible mass-murder, it's aftermath and future repercussions.

http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20070416214003210

You listen, I heard what the two had to say during their news conference and it sounds like pure incompetence to me. It boggles the mind how they don't sent out an alert on campus KNOWING that there's a killer on the loose. If you were in their position after the initial killings, would you try not to scare everyone by keeping the incident to yourself or would you warn the public of a developing story and for everyone to be alert?

 

[Cabages]

Originally posted by: her209
Wow... I just came to a realization. What if the e-mail that the school sent out at 9:26 AM was the thing that pushed the gunman to go over the edge?

Thats a pretty interesting theory. We dont know if he was a student yet do we?

Originally posted by: darkxshade
Not sure if anyone brought this up yet but the shooter was in in a lecture hall wearing a flack jacket and nothing over it? Considering the amount of ammunition he was carrying with him at the time and since he was around a bit before actually opening fire, I can't believe nobody saw that as a least bit suspicious, especially since shootings occured 2-3 hours earlier.

That does seem weird, but all I know is that he peeked into the german class a couple times. Are there usually people running around outside during class in college?

The fact that he had a bullet proof vest makes me think this was premeditated.

 

[Muse]

if you are of "oriental descent" that you should know that you should not refer to yourself as oriental, but that you are of Asian descent. I would understand this if you're not Asian, but that's not the case.
To be politically correct, "Oriental" is used to describe objects. :roll:

that is, unless you're an inanimate object, then please accept my apologies.

Get over it. Oriental is just a word. It isn't necessarily pejorative one little bit. It didn't used to be. Language is a funny thing. Use a word for a few decades and it gradually becomes loathsome. "Stink" used to be an OK smell, you know, or so I'm told. One day fragrance or aroma will stink to high Heaven.

I try not to use the word Oriental simply because it's perceived as politically incorrect, and God forbid I should be perceived as prejudiced or ignorant. However, I have to wonder at people who think that just because they don't use certain words they always smell like roses.

 

[preCRT]

Awful update: the local mom was just informed by the VT chaplin that her only son, Ross Ahmondine (sp?), was among the victims




:brokenheart:

 

[Steve]

EDIT: BEATEN

Originally posted by: preCRT
Very sad story on Boston local news, a mom of a VT student has been trying to reach her son by phone all day. No one can find him, not his roommates nor friends. The mom called the school's hotline and they couldn't confirm if her son among the victims, only said someone from the local police will get in touch with her tomorrow if her son was a victim.


WTF is that?

From another forum:

Originally posted by: Stadol
Here in Boston, one of the mothers of a student at VT was just notified that her son was killed. (She had been trying all day long to get some information about her son.)

The reporter (here on Channel 7) was choking back tears as she reported the story.

Dammit, this is simply awful. My heart goes out to all who are affected by this horrible tragedy.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Cabages

Originally posted by: her209
Wow... I just came to a realization. What if the e-mail that the school sent out at 9:26 AM was the thing that pushed the gunman to go over the edge?

Thats a pretty interesting theory. We dont know if he was a student yet do we?

Some news agencies are reporting that he was. Until the police release the report, everything is just speculation.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Dari
The Chief of the University Police Department and the President should be fired for not shutting the school down when there was a killer on the loose. HTF do you not alert everyone and call the first killings "an isolated incident" when the killer was still free? Assholes.

yeh, they probably even supplied the guy with ammo. :roll:

listen, you don't know all the facts. so why do you think you have the right to judge?

Media Should Back Off Blame Game at Virginia Tech

Monday, April 16 2007 @ 09:40 PM EDT

Media has now switched from reporting a tragedy to laying blame on school officials

BBSNews Commentary 2007-04-16 -- Major media has now moved from reporting the tragedy at Virginia Tech straight to the blame game just hours after this senseless string of murders. Apparently not all of the next of kin have even been notified about the status of student or faculty, and the media, including Paula Zahn at CNN are trying to elicit Virginia Tech students and other "experts" to blame school or police officials for the tragedy.

The facts are simply not in yet. There is no excuse for such poor performance on the part of talking heads to make all these guesses and imply that it is school officials and police who are at fault for a whacked out gunman or gunmen who actually committed the shootings.

According to reports so far from two separate news conferences, there was a shooting early this morning about 7:15 am at Virginia Tech. Campus authorities and local police responded to that crime scene within minutes and started an investigation. From preliminary evidence and witness reports from the scene, police were led to believe that they were dealing with a single scene and the shooter had fled the campus.

They were continuing their investigation of the original scene when the shootings broke out at Norris Hall about two hours later where a further thirty-one people were killed in quick succession. The Virginia Tech news Web site is still carrying a banner from that incident that warns:

"Emergency! 04/16/2007 9:58 am Gunman on Campus; Stay Indoors and Away from Windows See details"

And that was fair enough. This had suddenly elevated from what was thought to be an isolated incident into a full fledged "school shooting" that parents and educators in the United States universally fear, and an all campus "gunman" warning was certainly now warranted for the second incident hours later after the first.

To the students who were prodded by Paula Zahn to lay blame for the deaths on school officials rather than the shooter(s) and who resisted her lurid attempt; they are to be commended for putting her in her place and letting her know they were more inclined to blame the actual perpetrator as opposed to school officials or police.

And to the expert who appeared on CNN earlier claiming to hear two separate types of gunfire and speculating about police using M-16 type weapons towards the gunman, he should be ashamed for making such a claim while admitting that he could not even see the accompanying video.

We cannot claim any expertise, but in our newsroom it was felt that Jamal Al Bhagouti's cell phone microphone was picking up some sort of flapping plastic noise from the extreme wind. The almost evenly spaced gunfire seemed to be of one caliber, and watching the police officials in the video who were trying to approach the building through two separate entrances towards the end of the video, the loud "bang" that was heard seemed to happen just after the entrances were breeched. It sounded like a "flash bang" grenade followed by the usual law enforcement rush-in and shouting in the first seconds of them trying to secure a volatile "shots fired" victims-hostage scene.

There are many unknowns in this incident that is now reportedly the most deadly mass shooting incident in United States history. What is clearly known, is that there is no precedent for this kind of shooting, no act of terrorism can be completely protected from at all times and speculating that what amounts to be a small city could be simply and completely shut down in a matter of minutes is irresponsible reporting at best.

It is also irresponsible and unfair to the parents, relatives, faculty and the public to start laying blame on officials for what is by all accounts an act with no precedent. Major media should refrain from hyping scenarios and stereotypical "profiler" theories and report the actual facts that are verified by officials on the scene. Sensationalizing "gaps" between what police thought was an isolated crime scene, that suddenly turned into a possible connection between the two shootings is wrong and officials have not yet made such a link official.

CNN producers, reporters and anchors especially should take a page out of former CNN anchor Aaron Brown's book and report what you know and not what you think. Don't lower yourselves to the cheesy sensationalism of other "news" networks in reporting this horrible mass-murder, it's aftermath and future repercussions.

http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20070416214003210

You listen, I heard what the two had to say during their news conference and it sounds like pure incompetence to me. It boggles the mind how they don't sent out an alert on campus KNOWING that there's a killer on the loose. If you were in their position after the initial killings, would you try not to scare everyone by keeping the incident to yourself or would you warn the public of a developing story and for everyone to be alert?

what would they gain by keeping the incident to themselves? read the article i posted.

 

[apex32]

Originally posted by: preCRT
Awful update: the local mom was just informed by the VT chaplin that her only son, Ross Ahmondine (sp?), was among the victims




:brokenheart:

Truly sorry to hear it. senseless.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Cabages

Originally posted by: her209
Wow... I just came to a realization. What if the e-mail that the school sent out at 9:26 AM was the thing that pushed the gunman to go over the edge?

Thats a pretty interesting theory. We dont know if he was a student yet do we?

Some news agencies are reporting that he was. Until the police release the report, everything is just speculation.

It's hard to believe the shooter would take the time to check his e-mail right after he shot 2 people to death even with 2 hours in betweeen shootings. I would think it would be one of the last things on a to do list for such circumstances.

 

[jpeyton]

Trust me, the law enforcement officials already know who the killer is, who the victims are, and if the shootings were connected.

This is a tight-knit community that has been handed a lot of resources. They haven't been twiddling their thumbs for the last 12 hours; they've been running tests, surveying the crime scene, examining bodies, examining rosters, doing head counts, etc. down to every last detail.

They are just waiting to gather as many details as possible before releasing it to the media.

 

[DigitalWanksta]

That is so sad -- my heart goes out to everyone. I've been keeping up with this tragedy all day long. I had two classes, but other than that I've been sitting in front of the T.V. or on the computer reading up on the incident. I feel so sorry for the mother who has been trying to reach her only son all day long to only find out that she has lost him. Could you imagine? I'm not a mother, but I am very close to my mom. I couldn't imagine what that would do to my mom if something like that happened to me. I will say this, however; I was a victim of a shooting spree at a Target store in my home town a couple years back. It was supposedly the same kind of situation where a man with a loaded sawed off shotgun entered the store looking for a man that was apparently having sexual relations with his wife. I was entering the store about the time he was exiting after he had killed three other people. I came extremely close to him before he took his own life. To this day, I thank the good Lord that it wasn't my time to go. Simply because I couldn't remember the last time I hugged my parents and my brother and told them how much I loved them and how much they meant to me. Folks, please let this be a wake-up call to those of you who may not have close relationships with your friends and family who care about you. You never know what the day entails so act as if it's your last.

God Bless You All

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: gwrober

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: UCDAggies
More evidence of gun motivating crime. It is long overdue that we repeal the 2nd amendment. another tragedy that could have been prevented if we didn't have the 2nd Amendment.

Dude. Go away. Now.

What is your problem. That is a tragedy. over 30 dead, because of guns.

How does that even make sense? An inanimate object caused all of this? SOmeone with issues and an agenda, with no regard to life, used a gun as a tool to carry out his plans. What if it were explosives? Or a vehicle? Ban all the semi's on the road because someone used one to kill someone else?

There is a saying, "When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns" - If I have to confront someone on the first floor of my home, do I have to jump in to the melee barehanded? Or call the cops from my bedroom and hope the bad guys don't make it upstairs?? Geez.

What is happening at VT is tragic. Guns are not the reason these people are gone, the person with the vendetta is. That person is to blame.

Typical thinking, or maybe I should say this is a very common argument used by people to counter gun control advocacy. But I contend that the mere prevalence of guns contributes to the pervasive violent ethos of America. "When you begin to think like a gun..." the song goes. Here's the lyrics (great song!):

John Cale's "Gun"

The quick try to get quicker
And the creepers get hung
Now it?s you that got wasted tonight on the job
One lost his liquor
And the other lost his hand

Ten sticky thumb prints on the door and the sink
But nothin? saw nothin? - just smell the stink
Five hundred mugshots and a hundred to one
Four forgotten and the rest just won?t come

When you?ve begun to think like a gun
The rest of the year has already gone
When you?ve begun to think like a gun
The days of the year have suddenly gone

(well) blood on the windows and blood on the walls
Blood on the ceiling and down in the halls
And the papers keep downing on everything I burned
And the people getting restless but they?ll never learn

I picked up a doctor - he?s good with a knife
Says anaesthetic?s a waste of his time
Works in a hurry but always worthwhile
Knows they won?t be back for a long long time

Top of the staircase was ready to fall
We were still waiting downstairs in the hall
Watch out for big mama, she?ll set you on fire
Or go for your neck with the chicken wire

When you?ve begun to think like a gun
The days of the year have suddenly gone
Once you?ve begun to think like a gun
The days of the year have already gone

Mother of plenty, mother of none
You?ve got me cornered and still on the run
I don?t care nothing about you anyway
Stuck in this hole I?m on my way

Yeah when you?ve begun to live like a gun
The days of the year have already gone
When you?ve begun to think like a gun
The days of the year have suddenly gone

 

[Mill]

About the Chinese Student Visa idea from the Chicago Sun-Times...

One thing I was thinking about... when the "hoax" about the Live Journal was going on, the guys named was listed as Wayne Chiang. Believe it or not, but there were quite a lot of Wayne Chiangs out there. Thus, if this guy was Chinese, he could have a very popular Chinese name. Being that VT has a lot of Asian students, they could be holding off on the ID for precisely THAT reason alone. They cannot figure out which person he is. That sort of throws a little taint toward the idea of the Student Visa. There *may* be a person on a Chinese Student Visa with his name, but it might not be him due to identical or similar names.

 

[Laughingman12]

Why would an Asian do this, no offense but shouldn't he been playing online games or something?

 

[Mill]

Ryan Clark was apparently one of the victims. They said he was a RA, but I do not know if he was the RA that was killed earlier in the morning.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Why would an Asian do this, no offense but shouldn't he been playing online games or something?

IF this did indeed begin as a crime of passion (with the murder of his GF), then no race or ethnic group is immune to that kind of situation.

 

[Yongsta]

Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Why would an Asian do this, no offense but shouldn't he been playing online games or something?

Maybe this type of mentality & generalization is the reason why. :roll:

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Why would an Asian do this, no offense but shouldn't he been playing online games or something?

Enjoy your vacation

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: Mill
Ryan Clark was apparently one of the victims. They said he was a RA, but I do not know if he was the RA that was killed earlier in the morning.

I believe someone earlier in this thread said the dead RA's name was Ryan (he knew him).

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Cabages

Originally posted by: her209
Wow... I just came to a realization. What if the e-mail that the school sent out at 9:26 AM was the thing that pushed the gunman to go over the edge?

Thats a pretty interesting theory. We dont know if he was a student yet do we?

Some news agencies are reporting that he was. Until the police release the report, everything is just speculation.

It's hard to believe the shooter would take the time to check his e-mail right after he shot 2 people to death even with 2 hours in betweeen shootings. I would think it would be one of the last things on a to do list for such circumstances.

Perhaps, but the chronology of events are just so close together.

7:15 AM Two people murdered in the dormitory
9:26 AM Mass e-mail to students regarding dormitory shooting
9:45 AM Second shooting begins at Norris Hall

 

[imported_K3N]

wtf is an RA?

my condolences go out to the family of the victims...

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: K3N
wtf is an RA?

Resident advisor

 

[preCRT]

Originally posted by: DigitalWankstaTo this day, I thank the good Lord that it wasn't my time to go. Simply because I couldn't remember the last time I hugged my parents and my brother and told them how much I loved them and how much they meant to me. Folks, please let this be a wake-up call to those of you who may not have close relationships with your friends and family who care about you. You never know what the day entails so act as if it's your last.

If nothing else comes out of this tragedy, take the time to tell your family & friends that you love them. Life is so short, we may never get another chance.

 

[PinchyCM]

Originally posted by: Laughingman12
Why would an Asian do this, no offense but shouldn't he been playing online games or something?

BAN.