WTF!!!!!! - Virginia Tech

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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: theslug
So does anyone else find it offensive that some non-Americans have to act all superior when a tragedy like this happens? They go on about how it couldn't happen in their country, or bash us for having more relaxed gun laws than them, or worse yet, people in various hate groups laugh about what happened. It's ridiculous and insensitive.

I'm not trying to generalize here though so no offense to those outside the U.S. who are actually sympathetic to what happened. I know it's just a small handful of people.

Funny how that works. We are to mind our own business when it comes to world affairs, but when something happens in our own country, we are told by everybody that we have it all wrong and should do this or that because thats how everyone else does it and they know best :roll:
 

Cabages

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
2,919
0
0
Originally posted by: da loser
why can't they link cho to the first shooting? was the woman not his gf? or was that just speculation?

Last I heard, they were just making sure he didnt have any other people that helped him in it, and the description of the shooters from the 2 shootings didnt exactly match up.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: theslug
So does anyone else find it offensive that some non-Americans have to act all superior when a tragedy like this happens? They go on about how it couldn't happen in their country, or bash us for having more relaxed gun laws than them, or worse yet, people in various hate groups laugh about what happened. It's ridiculous and insensitive.

I'm not trying to generalize here though so no offense to those outside the U.S. who are actually sympathetic to what happened. I know it's just a small handful of people.

Funny how that works. We are to mind our own business when it comes to world affairs, but when something happens in our own country, we are told by everybody that we have it all wrong and should do this or that because thats how everyone else does it and they know best :roll:

There is no way to win in the world's eyes. We ignored Bosnia and we were labelled heartless. We get involved in world affairs now, we are labelled nosy.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: theslug
So does anyone else find it offensive that some non-Americans have to act all superior when a tragedy like this happens? They go on about how it couldn't happen in their country, or bash us for having more relaxed gun laws than them, or worse yet, people in various hate groups laugh about what happened. It's ridiculous and insensitive.

I'm not trying to generalize here though so no offense to those outside the U.S. who are actually sympathetic to what happened. I know it's just a small handful of people.

Funny how that works. We are to mind our own business when it comes to world affairs, but when something happens in our own country, we are told by everybody that we have it all wrong and should do this or that because thats how everyone else does it and they know best :roll:

There is no way to win in the world's eyes. We ignored Bosnia and we were labelled heartless. We get involved in world affairs now, we are labeled nosy.

Maybe if we would stick to a single set of well defined previously established standards and principles that determine when we get involved and when we don't, instead of flip flopping with the pendulum of politics and corruption. This 'one set of rules for this country' and 'another set of rules for another country' based on who is in power and who is paying who doesn't fly.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: kmmatney
This is horrifying news. I was in Denver when Columbine happened. After spending time in the UK (where I am this week) and Japan, I can say that society can run perfectly fine without guns...

A politician was assassinated today in Japan. With a gun.

If only they banned guns in Japan...
 

theslug

Senior member
Apr 15, 2004
310
0
0
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: theslug
So does anyone else find it offensive that some non-Americans have to act all superior when a tragedy like this happens? They go on about how it couldn't happen in their country, or bash us for having more relaxed gun laws than them, or worse yet, people in various hate groups laugh about what happened. It's ridiculous and insensitive.

I'm not trying to generalize here though so no offense to those outside the U.S. who are actually sympathetic to what happened. I know it's just a small handful of people.

Funny how that works. We are to mind our own business when it comes to world affairs, but when something happens in our own country, we are told by everybody that we have it all wrong and should do this or that because thats how everyone else does it and they know best :roll:

There is no way to win in the world's eyes. We ignored Bosnia and we were labelled heartless. We get involved in world affairs now, we are labeled nosy.

Maybe if we would stick to a single set of well defined previously established standards and principles that determine when we get involved and when we don't, instead of flip flopping with the pendulum of politics and corruption. This 'one set of rules for this country' and 'another set of rules for another country' based on who is in power and who is paying who doesn't fly.

A good point, but that's a governmental issue, not a problem with Americans citizens in general. The world doesn't seem to see us as independent people and understand that one person's ideals or characteristics isn't the same as another's.
 

msi1337

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
7,818
67
101
whether or not each Anandtech's opinion on gun control is valid is not the point here. The point is that many people lost thier lives in this event and we should grieve for them. Guns or no guns, people will be killed and die each day..it's how we can learn from it that matters. Stop arguing politics in OT and maybe add some sympathy?
 

Rogodin2

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
3,224
0
0
If you grieve for these people that died, people that you do not know, have never had contact with then you need to grieve for every other person that dies. And I sure as hell don't see any of you ATOTers grieving for the worlds deaths. Life is sacred, even if it's not american lives.

Poopsnakes.

Rogo
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: kmmatney
This is horrifying news. I was in Denver when Columbine happened. After spending time in the UK (where I am this week) and Japan, I can say that society can run perfectly fine without guns...

A politician was assassinated today in Japan. With a gun.

If only they banned guns in Japan...

in case people don't know you are being sarcastic, the Japanese law: No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords
 

toekramp

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2001
8,426
2
0
Originally posted by: Rogodin2
If you grieve for these people that died, people that you do not know, have never had contact with then you need to grieve for every other person that dies. And I sure as hell don't see any of you ATOTers grieving for the worlds deaths. Life is sacred, even if it's not american lives.

Poopsnakes.

Rogo

you're a moron. go find a hole
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Originally posted by: richardycc
not sure if anyone asked already or know, were there any asian among the victims?

I thought one of the females looked Asian.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: Conky
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Atheus


It would seem to me the idea is to make sure the *murderer* never had a gun in the first place, not to make sure everyone else has one too...

It's easy to get a gun illegally, just as it's easy to get illegal drugs. If you're willing to murder people, I doubt that obeying the law is at the top of your priorities.

If you banned guns, those who are willing to obtain them illegally would still be able to get them, whereas the law abiding citizens would be disarmed.
Yeah, that's the argument the NRA makes and those sympathetic with their position -- i.e. all the millions of gun owners in the US who don't want to give up their guns. "If you make guns illegal, only outlaws will have guns."

Well, duh! The thing of it is that it will take a long time for this gun happy country to get over it. It won't happen in 2-3 years. It will take a generation for it to really start working, but it will work. You have to make it illegal (highly illegal) to have, distribute, manufacture, adapt, hide, smuggle, cache and use guns. The idea that you are safe because you have guns is trash.
Yeah, pass more laws, that always works. Look at the "war on drugs" with all those people in jail and people hardly ever use drugs any more. :roll:

Why do people think that passing more laws will change the way people behave? There is a law about murdering other people on the books and it didn't seem to deter the VT shooter.
Well, it's already illegal to murder people. That's not the issue. The problem is that it's too damned easy to get firearms.

yeap. no firearms no murder.
Didn't say that. No firearms, no murder by firearms. It's too damned easy to kill with firearms. Now, if you had to use a sword how you going to kill 25 people? Yes, you could be a samurai warrior like, say, the guy portrayed by Toshiro Mifune in Kurosawa's samurai movies. But that's a fantasy. Guns are the great equalizer. Hey, you can go down and buy a Glock and kill 30 people, no training necessary. Look, this dumb kid (and yes he was dumb, just read his plays), who had no training at all just acted out his fantasy and became the most prolific firearms murderer in American history. My problem is with guns, mister. You eliminate the guns, and homicide in the USA will be a fraction of what it is today.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Originally posted by: Soybomb
Well, it's already illegal to murder people. That's not the issue. The problem is that it's too damned easy to get firearms.
I've asked you before and you've not repsonses but I'll ask again, how do you propose we reach this firearm free utopia? Should we spend billions on firearm control so that they're as hard to get as drugs?

It's not going to cost billions, and you lied. You did not ask me how this should be done. Ask the British how they did it. They didn't go broke doing it. It wouldn't cost 5% of what it costs just to keep up the nuclear arsenal in this country.
 

SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
1
76
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Muse
Yeah, that's the argument the NRA makes and those sympathetic with their position -- i.e. all the millions of gun owners in the US who don't want to give up their guns. "If you make guns illegal, only outlaws will have guns."

Well, duh! The thing of it is that it will take a long time for this gun happy country to get over it. It won't happen in 2-3 years. It will take a generation for it to really start working, but it will work. You have to make it illegal (highly illegal) to have, distribute, manufacture, adapt, hide, smuggle, cache and use guns. The idea that you are safe because you have guns is trash.
At some point, you have to realize that banning firearms for private use is an impossible notion for the US. There is absolutely no way it would happen, for a hundred different reasons.

Gun control is the only reasonable political answer to this kind of situation, and even that is a stretch. Even if they reinstated the assault weapons ban, it wouldn't ban the types of semi-automatic 9mm pistols that the shooter likely used.

The only logical solution I see is stronger campus security, better security/lockdown policies and implementation. But even that won't stop a determined person bent on killing other humans.

Guns kill people. People also kill people. But the firearms industry in the US is a powerful, powerful force financially and politically. And the proliferation of firearms in our country is deep and far-reaching.

I disagree. Banning firearms can happen in the USA. It won't happen soon, but it can. They did it in the U.K., they can do it here. It is not "impossible." Lots of things are impossible, but banning firearms for private citizens isn't one of them. You say you can furnish "a hundred different reasons" but have failed to provide even one.

Gun control is a broad and open-ended concept and at the extreme end, is "banning firearms for private use." You note that "Gun control is the only reasonable political answer to this kind of situation." It all spins on how far you take it.

Yes, firearms (in particular the industry, as you note) run deep in the USA. All the more reason to dig deep to root out the problem.

It is hard to draw parallels between the two. The gun ban "worked" in the UK for different reasons:

1) The UK is surrounded by countries with strong gun prohibitions. The US has a wonderful country called Mexico with a fairly open border.
2) The vast majority of the population supported the legislation. Somewhere around half of all households in the US own a gun. There are a significant percentage of owners that would not comply with the laws.
3) The UK did not have the sheer numbers of guns that the US has. There are over 200 million firearms in the United States.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: msi1337
whether or not each Anandtech's opinion on gun control is valid is not the point here. The point is that many people lost thier lives in this event and we should grieve for them. Guns or no guns, people will be killed and die each day..it's how we can learn from it that matters. Stop arguing politics in OT and maybe add some sympathy?

I don't grieve. People die, that is a fact of life, even when it is unjust and uncalled for. What I will do is investigate the weapons policies on my campus and take active measures to educate people around me on topics such as self defense, responsibility as a citizen of a free society, etc. and do my small part to undo the sheep herding that has crippled our societies livelihood. This whole 'hide under your desk and hope he goes away' thing just doesn't cut it for me. I refuse to take a bullet to the back from some psychopath because some of you here feeeeeeeel that its the preferable thing to do.

When we stop crying 24/7 and grow a little spine we can start taking measures to directly address and deter these kinds of problems instead of pointing fingers and implementing the kinds of social policies that have proven to be failures at decreasing this sort of thing since the 1960s. The thought of some cross eyed bug eyed liberal kindergarten teacher high on Prozac sending little kid to therapy because he punched a bully that roughed him up for lunch money for the 3rd and final time makes me want to puke. It's not the kid who punches the bully that grows up and upgrades to guns to be a murderer. It's the bully, who lacks checks and balances, who does that. Why don't people understand this? Liberalism and pacifism = SIV (societal immunodeficiency virus). I think it's pretty sick that in a country with 200 million guns, 99% of these students didn't even know what gunfire sounded like and described it as 'loud popping' or a 'loud hammer'.

I could die tomorrow. We are all dead the moment we begin to live. But I'm not going to grieve about it 24/7 and hold candle light vigils every night. Excessive grieving achieves nothing. I'm also sick of seeing flags at half mast every day for any reason. Mass shooting at a school, half mast. Bomb explodes on a train in Spain, half mast. Elderly woman falls off a bus, half mast. I was late for work this morning, half mast! Good grief. So sick of empty symbolic gestures and self righteous self patting on the back patty cake bullsht.

My sympathies towards the people who have been directly affected by this event and have a right to grieve for a short time.

The rest of you on the other hand, I can think of more productive things you could be doing in honor of those who were murdered. I know where I will be this weekend.

Does anybody believe in this sort of thing anymore:

"We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

One person by the name of Liviu Librescu did on Monday when he stood in front of that door. I still believe it as well. I bought my first handgun years ago and started carrying daily, not out of fear or need for personal protection, but after someone I knew indirectly though friends of family members who was beaten and left for dead in an alley for hours due to something as personal and trivial as his sexual orientation. It was said there were witnesses and people passing by couldn't be bothered to help. How does that moral go that says something like "it wasn't me, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me and there was nobody left to speak."

I don't even know the guy nor do I care about his personal issues. But I started asking myself, if I saw three potentially armed men beating a man on the ground to death, what could I possibly do that would make a difference? Even with my size and extensive martial arts experience, what could I do against three potentially armed thugs with an agenda?

I witnessed a family I really didn't even care about torn apart by senseless violence because nobody wanted to stand up and make a difference because people are selfish spineless animals that will watch another human being prey on others and do nothing because it's not them or someone they care about, or because they don't want to risk getting blood on their Gap clothes or get their RAZR scratched. And these are the first people who will grieve in sympathy and offer their worthless condolences. *puke* *spit*

I made a vow to myself, my fellow human beings, and my country that I would do my small part to never allow anything like that to happen again. I don't want to be a police officer and work 50 hours a week for a crappy $30k a year salary to make a difference. I just want to be an ordinary citizen who minds my own business pursuing my own dreams... and still be able to make that difference when life calls upon me to do so. I will not stand idly by while enemies of my country within its own borders push an agenda that will undermine my ability to uphold that vow.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Muse

I disagree. Banning firearms can happen in the USA. It won't happen soon, but it can. They did it in the U.K., they can do it here. It is not "impossible." Lots of things are impossible, but banning firearms for private citizens isn't one of them. You say you can furnish "a hundred different reasons" but have failed to provide even one.

Gun control is a broad and open-ended concept and at the extreme end, is "banning firearms for private use." You note that "Gun control is the only reasonable political answer to this kind of situation." It all spins on how far you take it.

Yes, firearms (in particular the industry, as you note) run deep in the USA. All the more reason to dig deep to root out the problem.


You are advocating stripping away one of our Constitutional rights. This isn't to be taken lightly. You're just as well to take away our freedom of speech.

Personally I do not own guns but I would help strike down any attempt to abridge my rights. You are being completely reckless.

Also, banning guns will not make them go away, they'll just leave the hands of lawful gun owners. Criminals will still be able to easily get them. Why don't you try banning meth? That's right, it's already banned but it's still prevalent. The demand for them is still there, so a supply will be there.
You're right in the short term, but you have to take the long view on this problem. After enough time (and I'm talking decades here), it would work. This isn't a quick fix, it's A SLOW FIX. But it's a fix, and the other BS isn't.
 

Soybomb

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
9,505
1
0
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: Soybomb
Well, it's already illegal to murder people. That's not the issue. The problem is that it's too damned easy to get firearms.
I've asked you before and you've not repsonses but I'll ask again, how do you propose we reach this firearm free utopia? Should we spend billions on firearm control so that they're as hard to get as drugs?

It's not going to cost billions, and you lied. You did not ask me how this should be done. Ask the British how they did it. They didn't go broke doing it. It wouldn't cost 5% of what it costs just to keep up the nuclear arsenal in this country.
I didn't lie at all here it is, typo and all
I want the hard details on (how) you're going to keep anything that people really want from getting to them be it drugs, guns, or fuzzy bunny slippers.

Anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs#Cost
Determining the cost of the War on Drugs is complex. The U.S. government estimates it by calculating the amounts used to attempt to control the supply of illegal drugs, government employees involved in waging the war, and rehabilitation costs. This total was estimated by the U.S. government's cost report on drug control to be roughly 12 billion dollars in 2005. Additionally, in a separate report, the U.S. government reports that the cost of incarcerating drug law offenders was $30.1 billion, $9.1 billion for police protection, $4.5 billion for legal adjudication, and $11.0 billion for state and federal corrections. In total, roughly $45.5 billion was spent in 1995 for these factors.
We're spending billions to battle drugs and yet we all acknowledge that a huge variety of drugs are readily available everywhere. Why do you think gun control measures are going to be more effective? What are we doing wrong that lets drugs in through our borders but we'll get right that will keep guns out?

Are you going to allow anyone to keep guns for self defense? Will my friend be raped next time because you won't let her have a gun, or will it be a gun available for a criminal to steal? I gave you a DoJ study that showed 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year in the US. I surely hope you won't want to leave these people helpless.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Hot Air has started a new round-up page with a major WTF.

Update: CNN?s airing an amazing interview on Paula Zahn?s show right now with Cho?s two roommates. The details aren?t online yet, but here?s the gist: he stalked three girls on the floor they lived on, including via instant messages he signed with a question mark; he once told his roommates that when he looked in one girl?s eyes he saw ?promiscuity,? shortly after which they sent him to a counseling center on campus for a few nights; then, at some point after he was released, they went out drinking and he opened up to them, telling them he had an imaginary supermodel girlfriend ? who called him ?Spanky,? and whom he called ?Jelly.? Oh, and he also liked to listen to ?Shine? by Collective Soul over and over and over.

But other than that, he was completely normal.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Queasy
Hot Air has started a new round-up page with a major WTF.

Update: CNN?s airing an amazing interview on Paula Zahn?s show right now with Cho?s two roommates. The details aren?t online yet, but here?s the gist: he stalked three girls on the floor they lived on, including via instant messages he signed with a question mark; he once told his roommates that when he looked in one girl?s eyes he saw ?promiscuity,? shortly after which they sent him to a counseling center on campus for a few nights; then, at some point after he was released, they went out drinking and he opened up to them, telling them he had an imaginary supermodel girlfriend ? who called him ?Spanky,? and whom he called ?Jelly.? Oh, and he also liked to listen to ?Shine? by Collective Soul over and over and over.

But other than that, he was completely normal.

Ambler Johnston Hall, the dormitory building where the first shooting occurred about 7:15 a.m. At about 8 a.m., Mr. Aust returned to the room from a class.

ok shens college students can't be awake this early...
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,048
18
81
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: Conky
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Atheus


It would seem to me the idea is to make sure the *murderer* never had a gun in the first place, not to make sure everyone else has one too...

It's easy to get a gun illegally, just as it's easy to get illegal drugs. If you're willing to murder people, I doubt that obeying the law is at the top of your priorities.

If you banned guns, those who are willing to obtain them illegally would still be able to get them, whereas the law abiding citizens would be disarmed.
Yeah, that's the argument the NRA makes and those sympathetic with their position -- i.e. all the millions of gun owners in the US who don't want to give up their guns. "If you make guns illegal, only outlaws will have guns."

Well, duh! The thing of it is that it will take a long time for this gun happy country to get over it. It won't happen in 2-3 years. It will take a generation for it to really start working, but it will work. You have to make it illegal (highly illegal) to have, distribute, manufacture, adapt, hide, smuggle, cache and use guns. The idea that you are safe because you have guns is trash.
Yeah, pass more laws, that always works. Look at the "war on drugs" with all those people in jail and people hardly ever use drugs any more. :roll:

Why do people think that passing more laws will change the way people behave? There is a law about murdering other people on the books and it didn't seem to deter the VT shooter.
Well, it's already illegal to murder people. That's not the issue. The problem is that it's too damned easy to get firearms.

yeap. no firearms no murder.
Didn't say that. No firearms, no murder by firearms. It's too damned easy to kill with firearms. Now, if you had to use a sword how you going to kill 25 people? Yes, you could be a samurai warrior like, say, the guy portrayed by Toshiro Mifune in Kurosawa's samurai movies. But that's a fantasy. Guns are the great equalizer. Hey, you can go down and buy a Glock and kill 30 people, no training necessary. Look, this dumb kid (and yes he was dumb, just read his plays), who had no training at all just acted out his fantasy and became the most prolific firearms murderer in American history. My problem is with guns, mister. You eliminate the guns, and homicide in the USA will be a fraction of what it is today.

You eliminate alcohol and tobacco, and deaths related to those will be a fraction of what it is today.

Your point?

Psychos happen.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,048
18
81
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: msi1337
whether or not each Anandtech's opinion on gun control is valid is not the point here. The point is that many people lost thier lives in this event and we should grieve for them. Guns or no guns, people will be killed and die each day..it's how we can learn from it that matters. Stop arguing politics in OT and maybe add some sympathy?

I don't grieve. People die, that is a fact of life, even when it is unjust and uncalled for. What I will do is investigate the weapons policies on my campus and take active measures to educate people around me on topics such as self defense, responsibility as a citizen of a free society, etc. and do my small part to undo the sheep herding that has crippled our societies livelihood. This whole 'hide under your desk and hope he goes away' thing just doesn't cut it for me. I refuse to take a bullet to the back from some psychopath because some of you here feeeeeeeel that its the preferable thing to do.

When we stop crying 24/7 and grow a little spine we can start taking measures to directly address and deter these kinds of problems instead of pointing fingers and implementing the kinds of social policies that have proven to be failures at decreasing this sort of thing since the 1960s. The thought of some cross eyed bug eyed liberal kindergarten teacher high on Prozac sending little kid to therapy because he punched a bully that roughed him up for lunch money for the 3rd and final time makes me want to puke. It's not the kid who punches the bully that grows up and upgrades to guns to be a murderer. It's the bully, who lacks checks and balances, who does that. Why don't people understand this? Liberalism and pacifism = SIV (societal immunodeficiency virus). I think it's pretty sick that in a country with 200 million guns, 99% of these students didn't even know what gunfire sounded like and described it as 'loud popping' or a 'loud hammer'.

I could die tomorrow. We are all dead the moment we begin to live. But I'm not going to grieve about it 24/7 and hold candle light vigils every night. Excessive grieving achieves nothing. I'm also sick of seeing flags at half mast every day for any reason. Mass shooting at a school, half mast. Bomb explodes on a train in Spain, half mast. Elderly woman falls off a bus, half mast. I was late for work this morning, half mast! Good grief. So sick of empty symbolic gestures and self righteous self back patting.

My sympathies towards the people who have been directly affected by this event and have a right to grieve for a short time.

The rest of you on the other hand, I can think of more productive things you could be doing in honor of those who were murdered. I know where I will be this weekend.

Does anybody believe in this sort of thing anymore:

"We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

One person by the name of Liviu Librescu did on Monday when he stood in front of that door. I still believe it as well. I bought my first handgun years ago and started carrying daily, not out of fear or need for personal protection, but after someone I knew indirectly though friends of family members who was beaten and left for dead in an alley for hours due to something as personal and trivial as his sexual orientation. It was said there were witnesses and people passing by couldn't be bothered to help. How does that moral go that says something like "it wasn't me, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me and there was nobody left to speak."

I don't even know the guy nor do I care about his personal issues. But I started asking myself, if I saw three potentially armed men beating a man on the ground to death, what could I possibly do that would make a difference? Even with my size and extensive martial arts experience, what could I do against three potentially armed thugs with an agenda?

I witnessed a family I really didn't even care about torn apart by senseless violence because nobody wanted to stand up and make a difference because people are selfish spineless animals that will watch another human being prey on others and do nothing because it's not them or someone they care about. And these are the first people who will grieve and offer their worthless condolences. *puke* *spit*

I made a vow to myself, my fellow human beings, and my country that I would do my small part to never allow anything like that to happen again. I will not stand idly by while enemies of my country within its own borders push an agenda that will undermine my ability to uphold that vow.

Yeah, uh, I pretty much agree with everything you just said.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
http://www.yahoo.com/s/559292 (photos)

By STEPHEN MANNING, Associated Press Writer
Tue Apr 17, 8:47 PM ET

CENTREVILLE, Va. - Reema Samaha was a dancer, whether it was the classical ballet she studied as a child, the belly dance moves she used for a high school talent show or the spinning she did around the living room with her mother.

"She just danced and laughed and smiled," said Linda D'Orazio, a neighbor in suburban Washington.

On Monday, Samaha was shot and killed at Virginia Tech while sitting in French class. She was one of 32 people killed by 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui, an English major who went to the same high school as her.

Samaha, 18, was a member of the high school's dance team and had recently taken up belly dancing, a nod to her family's roots in Lebanon, where the Samahas visited each summer.

"She was just beautiful and when you watched her, I thought she was one of the most gorgeous girls in the world, inside and out," said Lauren Walters, a former classmate of Samaha's who now attends Clemson University.

Samaha and Cho both graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly ? Samaha in 2006 and Cho in 2003. But Samaha's neighbors and friends said they did not think she knew Cho.

Samaha's house in the neighborhood of tidy two-story homes is only about a mile from the town house where Cho lived with his parents.

On Tuesday, Samaha's parents were in Blacksburg as stunned neighbors stocked the family's kitchen with food, trickling in and out of the home.

A large photo of Samaha, a striking woman with long dark hair, sat in the living room next to pictures of her older brother and sister.

"It's a random act of violence. We can't understand how she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Lu Ann McNabb, whose children grew up across the street from the Samaha family.

The neighborhood kids used to make home videos in their back yards, often mimicking their parents. McNabb said the parents would sometimes watch the videos when their families got together to play games twice each year.

"We would laugh our heads off," she said.

A look at some of the other victims killed in the Virginia Tech massacre:

___

Ross Abdallah Alameddine

Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., was a sophomore who had just declared English as his major.

Friends created a memorial page on Facebook.com that described Alameddine as "an intelligent, funny, easygoing guy."

"You're such an amazing kid, Ross," wrote Zach Allen, who along with Alameddine attended Austin Preparatory School in Reading, Mass. "You always made me smile, and you always knew the right thing to do or say to cheer anyone up."

Alameddine was killed in the classroom building, according to Robert Palumbo, a family friend who answered the phone at the Alameddine residence Tuesday.

Alameddine's mother, Lynnette Alameddine said she was outraged by how victims' relatives were notified of the shooting.

"It happened in the morning and I did not hear (about her son's death) until a quarter to 11 at night," she said. "That was outrageous. Two kids died, and then they shoot a whole bunch of them, including my son."

___

Christopher James Bishop

Bishop, 35, taught German at Virginia Tech and helped oversee an exchange program with a German university.

Bishop decided which German-language students at Virginia Tech could attend the Darmstadt Technology University to improve their German.

"He would teach them German in Blacksburg, and he would decide which students were able to study" abroad, Darmstadt spokesman Lars Rosumek said.

The school set up a book of condolences for students, staff and faculty to sign, along with information about the Virginia shootings.

"Of course many persons knew him personally and are deeply, deeply shocked about his death," Rosumek said.

Bishop earned bachelor's and master's degrees in German and was a Fulbright scholar at Christian-Albrechts University in Kiel, Germany.

According to his Web site, Bishop spent four years living in Germany, where he "spent most of his time learning the language, teaching English, drinking large quantities of wheat beer, and wooing a certain fraulein."

The "fraulein" was Bishop's wife, Stephanie Hofer, who also teaches in Virginia Tech's German program.

___

Bishop's personal Web site: http://www.memory39.com

___

Ryan Clark

Clark was called "Stack" by his friends, many of whom he met as a resident assistant at Ambler Johnson Hall, where the first shootings took place.

Clark, 22, was from Martinez, Ga., just outside Augusta. He was a fifth-year student working toward degrees in biology and English, and a member of the Marching Virginians band.

"He was just one of the greatest people you could possibly know," friend Gregory Walton, 25, said after learning from an ambulance driver that Clark was among the dead.

"He was always smiling, always laughing. I don't think I ever saw him mad in the five years I knew him."

___

Jocelyne Couture-Nowak

Couture-Nowak, a French instructor at Virginia Tech, was instrumental in the creation of the first French school in a town in Nova Scotia.

She lived there in the 1990s with her husband, Jerzy Nowak, the head of the horticulture department at Virginia Tech.

Richard Landry, a spokesman with the francophone school board in Truro, Nova Scotia, said Couture-Nowak was one of three mothers who pushed for the founding of the Ecole acadienne de Truro in 1997.

"It was very important for her daughters to be taught in French," said Rejean Sirois, who worked with her in establishing the school.

A student who identified herself as DeAnne Leigh Pelchat described her gratitude to Couture-Nowak on a Web site.

"I will forever remember you and what you have done for me and the others that benefit from what you did in the little town of Truro," Pelchat wrote in French. "You'll always have a place in my heart."

___

Daniel Perez Cueva

Perez Cueva, 21, from Peru, was killed while in a French class, said his mother, Betty Cueva, who was reached by telephone at the youth's listed telephone number.

Perez Cueva was a student of international relations, according to the Virginia Tech Web site.

His father, Flavio Perez, spoke of the death earlier to RPP radio in Peru. He lives in Peru and said he was trying to obtain a humanitarian visa from the U.S. consulate here. He is separated from Cueva, who said she had lived in the United States for six years.

A spokesman at the U.S. Embassy in Lima said the student's father "will receive all the attention possible when he applies" for the visa.

___

Kevin Granata

Granata, a professor of engineering science and mechanics, served in the military and later conducted orthopedic research in hospitals before coming to Virginia Tech, where he and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics.

The head of the school's engineering science and mechanics department called Granata one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

"With so many research projects and graduate students, he still found time to spend with his family, and he coached his children in many sports and extracurricular activities," said engineering professor Demetri P. Telionis. "He was a wonderful family man. We will all miss him dearly."

Granata was known worldwide for his research into how muscles accomplish complicated movements, said Stefan Duma, another engineering professor.

"He liked to ask the big questions," Duma said. "When we had students defending their Ph.D., and he kept asking, 'Did we have the total solution?' He was really interested in whether we answered the big questions. That's really a sign of a great scientist."

___

Caitlin Hammaren

Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., was a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to officials at her former school district.

"She was just one of the most outstanding young individuals that I've had the privilege of working with in my 31 years as an educator," said John P. Latini, principal of Minisink Valley High School, where she graduated in 2005. "Caitlin was a leader among our students."

Minisink Valley students and teachers shared their grief Tuesday at a counseling center set up in the school, Latini said.

_____

Jeremy Herbstritt

Herbstritt loved to chat, so much so that high school classmates voted him "Most Talkative."

"Talkie, talkie, talkie, everybody likes to talk," read the description in the Bellefonte High School yearbook of the 1998 graduate. Below was a picture of Herbstritt, with a sly grin, talking on a pay phone.

Herbstritt, 27, had two undergraduate degrees from Penn State, one in biochemistry and molecular biology from 2003, and another in civil engineering from 2006.

He grew up on a small farm just outside the central Pennsylvania borough of Bellefonte, where his father, Michael, raised steer and sheep.

His career goal was to be a civil engineer, and he talked of getting into environmental work after school.

"He liked to work on machinery, take a lot of stuff apart and fixed it," said the victim's grandfather Thomas Herbstritt, 77, of St. Marys. "He was a studious kid."

___

Rachael Hill

Hill was a freshman studying biology at Virginia Tech after graduating from Grove Avenue Christian School in Henrico County.

Hill, an only child, was popular and funny, had a penchant for shoes, and was competitive on the volleyball court.

"Rachael was a very bright, articulate, intelligent, beautiful, confident, poised young woman. She had a tremendous future in front of her," said Clay Fogler, administrator for the Grove Avenue school. "Obviously, the Lord had other plans for her."

Her father, Guy Hill, said the family was too distraught to talk about Hill on Tuesday, but relatives were planning to have memorial events later in the week. "We just need some time here," he said tearfully.

___

Emily Jane Hilscher

Hilscher, a freshman majoring in animal and poultry sciences, was known around her hometown as an animal lover.

"She worked at a veterinarian's office and cared about them her whole life," said Rappahannock County Administrator John W. McCarthy, a family friend.

Hilscher, 19, of Woodville, was a freshman majoring in animal and poultry sciences. She lived on the same dorm floor as victim Ryan Clark, McCarthy said.

A friend, Will Nachless, also 19, said Hilscher "was always very friendly. Before I even knew her, I thought she was very outgoing, friendly and helpful, and she was great in chemistry."

___

Jarrett Lee Lane

Lane, 22, was a senior civil engineering student who was valedictorian of his high school class in tiny Narrows, Va., just 30 miles from Virginia Tech.

His high school put up a memorial to Lane that included pictures, musical instruments and his athletic jerseys.

Lane played the trombone, ran track, and played football and basketball at Narrows High School. "We're just kind of binding together as a family," Principal Robert Stump said.

Lane's brother-in-law Daniel Farrell called Lane fun-loving and "full of spirit."

"He had a caring heart and was a friend to everyone he met," Farrell said. "We are leaning on God's grace in these trying hours."

___

Matthew J. La Porte

La Porte, 20, a freshman from Dumont, N.J., was attending Virginia Tech on an Air Force ROTC scholarship and belonged to the school's Corps of Cadets.

La Porte, who was considering majoring in political science, was a gradate of the Carson Long Military Institute in New Bloomfield, Pa. He credited the academy with turning his life around.

"I know that Carson Long was my second chance," he said during a 2005 graduation speech that was printed in the school yearbook.

On Tuesday, the school posted a memorial photograph of La Porte in his school uniform on its Web site.

"Matthew was an exemplary student at Carson Long whose love of music and fellow cadets were an inspiration to all on campus," the school said in a statement.

According to his profile on a music Web site, La Porte's favorite artists were Meshuggah, Metallica, Soundgarden, Creed and Live.

___

Liviu Librescu

Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was known for his research, but his son said the Holocaust survivor will be remembered as a hero for protecting students as the gunman tried to enter his classroom.

Librescu taught at Virginia Tech for 20 years and had an international reputation for his work in aeronautical engineering.

"His research has enabled better aircraft, superior composite materials, and more robust aerospace structures," said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

After surviving the Nazi killings, Librescu escaped from Communist Romania and made his way to the United States before he was killed in Monday's massacre, which coincided with Israel's Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Librescu's son, Joe, said his father's students sent e-mails detailing how the professor saved their lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the approaching gunman before Librescu was fatally shot.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Librescu's son, Joe Librescu, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

___

G.V. Loganathan

Loganathan was born in the southern Indian city of Chennai and had been a civil and environmental engineering professor at Virginia Tech since 1982.

Loganathan, 51, won several awards for excellence in teaching, had served on the faculty senate and was an adviser to about 75 undergraduate students.

"We all feel like we have had an electric shock. We do not know what to do," his brother G.V. Palanivel told the NDTV news channel from the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu. "He has been a driving force for all of us, the guiding force."

___

Daniel O'Neil

O'Neil, 22, was a graduate student in engineering and played guitar and wrote his own songs, which he posted on a Web site, http://www.residenthippy.com.

Friend Steve Craveiro described him as smart, responsible and a hard worker, someone who never got into trouble.

"He would come home from school over the summer and talk about projects, about building bridges and stuff like that," Craveiro said. "He loved his family. He was pretty much destined to be extremely successful. He just didn't deserve to have happen what happened."

O'Neil graduated in 2002 from Lincoln High School in Rhode Island and graduated from Lafayette College in Easton, Pa., before heading to Virginia Tech, where he was also a teaching assistant, Craveiro said.

___

Juan Ramon Ortiz

Ortiz, 26, who was from Puerto Rico, was teaching a class as part of his graduate program in civil engineering at Virginia Tech.

The family's neighbors in the San Juan suburb of Bayamon remembered Ortiz as a quiet, dedicated son who decorated his parents' one-story concrete house each Christmas and played in a salsa band with his father on weekends.

"He was an extraordinary son, what any father would have wanted," said Ortiz's father, also named Juan Ramon Ortiz.

Marilys Alvarez, 22, heard Ortiz's mother scream from the house next door when she learned of her son's death. Alvarez said she had wanted to study in the United States, but was now reconsidering.

"Here the violence is bad, but you don't see that," she said. "It's really sad. You can't go anywhere now."

___

Mary Karen Read

Read was born in South Korea into an Air Force family and lived in Texas and California before settling in the northern Virginia suburb of Annandale.

Read, 19, considered a handful of colleges, including nearby George Mason University, before choosing Virginia Tech. It was a popular destination among her Annandale High School classmates, according to her aunt Karen Kuppinger.

She had yet to declare a major.

"I think she wanted to try to spread her wings," said Kuppinger, of Rochester, N.Y.

Kuppinger said her niece had struggled adjusting to Tech's sprawling 2,600-acre campus. But she had recently begun making friends and looking into a sorority.

Kuppinger said the family started calling Read as news reports surfaced.

"After three or four hours passed and she hadn't picked up her cell phone or answered her e-mail ... we did get concerned," Kuppinger said. "We honestly thought she would pop up."
 
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