WWII - 63 Years Ago

[EagleKeeper]

Japan?s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and other military bases on Oahu lasted two hours. Twenty-one ships were heavily damaged, and 320 aircraft were damaged or destroyed. In all, about 2,390 people were killed and about 1,178 were wounded, according to the National Park Service, which maintains the Arizona site.


/title corrected

 

[dmcowen674]

Er, Fix Title, it was 63 years ago.

 

[judasmachine]

seriously man, fix the title....

 

[GoPackGo]

We went to war for four years over a two hour attack?

Was Japan a real threat to the US? Hawaii wasn't even a state.

This was NOT grounds for going to war.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
We went to war for four years over a two hour attack?

Was Japan a real threat to the US? Hawaii wasn't even a state.

This was NOT grounds for going to war.

Not funny 0 out of 10 :thumbsdown:

 

[judasmachine]

If you wish to diminish the attack, then bring up the fact that it was only a suprise to the people actually AT Pearl Harbor.

 

[Genx87]

Not funny 0 out of 10

Why? This is the crap you spew out after another surprise attack on the United States

It lasted ~ 1 hour, cost over 3,000 lives, and sent us into another war.

Isnt it pretty disgusting?

btw I cant believe after Japan attacked us we had the gaul to first invade North Africa chasing Nazis who did nothing to us. That sure is a long ways away from Tokyo! Must be the imperialistic ways of the United States! :disgust:

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
If you wish to diminish the attack, then bring up the fact that it was only a suprise to the people actually AT Pearl Harbor.

Surprise? The US govt not only knew it was going to happen, but couldnt wait to return to a state of war mongering.

Heck, who did we also go to war with, germany and italy, and they never attacked us.

Japan was doing the honorable thing by declaring war on our oil greedy country.

We delayed them from doing so, therefore making it sound like a "sneak attack"

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
We went to war for four years over a two hour attack?

Was Japan a real threat to the US? Hawaii wasn't even a state.

This was NOT grounds for going to war.

Not funny 0 out of 10 :thumbsdown:

Im not trying to be funny...

why should be glorify a day that resulted in the death of millions of innocent non-Americans

 

[Infohawk]

*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Not funny 0 out of 10

Why? This is the crap you spew out after another surprise attack on the United States

It lasted ~ 1 hour, cost over 3,000 lives, and sent us into another war.

Isnt it pretty disgusting?

btw I cant believe after Japan attacked us we had the gaul to first invade North Africa chasing Nazis who did nothing to us. That sure is a long ways away from Tokyo! Must be the imperialistic ways of the United States! :disgust:

hey - remember how no one really objected to the invasion of afghanistan, and only got their backs up over the entirely unrelated attack on Iraq?

I guess maybe you forgot your recent history, again

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

After WWII ended, we were not in any shape to take on the Soviets unless we used nukes.
Both sides needed each other to defeat the Axis powers. the Soviets were the lesser of two evils at the time.

Japan was nuked on the premise that the loss of life would be less than trying to occupy all the islands and control Japan. Experience had determined that the loss of US lives would increase due to the attitude of the Japanese fighters had we gone directly after the Japanese homeland.

The definition of freedom (at that time) was to remove an occpuying force from a country and to allow that country to govern itself. When WWII ended, that was the case.

The problem was that the Soviets were determined to ensure that a WWI invasion would never happen again and sought to create a buffer zone.

 

[Genx87]

me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

lol you people never learn.

history repeats itself over and over.

hey - remember how no one really objected to the invasion of afghanistan, and only got their backs up over the entirely unrelated attack on Iraq?

I guess maybe you forgot your recent history, again

Sure there was. Remember the oil pipeline through afghanistan? How many nutjobs were spewing that was the only reason we invaded the Taliban. I mean what did the Taliban ever do to us?!?!?!?

The definition of freedom (at that time) was to remove an occpuying force from a country and to allow that country to govern itself. When WWII ended, that was the case.

Amazing............................................where have we heard this before?!?

btw Eagle: Before you get your feathers in a ruff. I think GoPackGo and I are having a little fun at the neolibs expense in this thread. Dont take anything we say terribly serious. Just making some interesting points at their expense.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Genx87

Not funny 0 out of 10

Why? This is the crap you spew out after another surprise attack on the United States

It lasted ~ 1 hour, cost over 3,000 lives, and sent us into another war.

Isnt it pretty disgusting?

btw I cant believe after Japan attacked us we had the gaul to first invade North Africa chasing Nazis who did nothing to us. That sure is a long ways away from Tokyo! Must be the imperialistic ways of the United States! :disgust:

hey - remember how no one really objected to the invasion of afghanistan, and only got their backs up over the entirely unrelated attack on Iraq?

No, I don't remember that. What I rmember were plenty of people (I'm talking globally, not just limited to the tiny world of P&N) in the US and elsewhere objecting to the invasion of Afghanistan. Many also claimed we'd get mired down there, just like the USSR did, fighting an endless guerilla war in an unfamiliar barren landscape. They claimed we had no real proof bin Laden or al Qaeda was involved and that the Taliban was not complicit with bin Laden, yada, yada, yada...

They were wrong then too.

I guess maybe you forgot your recent history, again

Someone apparently has.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

watch more history channel and you can see the strategy of us fighting the japanese

btw, we WERE also in germany, which makes at least 2 theatres of combats on opposite sides of hte world

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

After WWII ended, we were not in any shape to take on the Soviets unless we used nukes.
Both sides needed each other to defeat the Axis powers. the Soviets were the lesser of two evils at the time.

Japan was nuked on the premise that the loss of life would be less than trying to occupy all the islands and control Japan. Experience had determined that the loss of US lives would increase due to the attitude of the Japanese fighters had we gone directly after the Japanese homeland.

The definition of freedom (at that time) was to remove an occpuying force from a country and to allow that country to govern itself. When WWII ended, that was the case.

The problem was that the Soviets were determined to ensure that a WWI invasion would never happen again and sought to create a buffer zone.

so the germans and japanese are still not free, since we still have forces there?

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

After WWII ended, we were not in any shape to take on the Soviets unless we used nukes.
Both sides needed each other to defeat the Axis powers. the Soviets were the lesser of two evils at the time.

Japan was nuked on the premise that the loss of life would be less than trying to occupy all the islands and control Japan. Experience had determined that the loss of US lives would increase due to the attitude of the Japanese fighters had we gone directly after the Japanese homeland.

The definition of freedom (at that time) was to remove an occpuying force from a country and to allow that country to govern itself. When WWII ended, that was the case.

The problem was that the Soviets were determined to ensure that a WWI invasion would never happen again and sought to create a buffer zone.

so the germans and japanese are still not free, since we still have forces there?

i think as part of the agreement we have with both countries, we will always maintain a military presence in their country. our presenece however is not a functional one when it comes to the lives of the japanese or germans i.e. we do no policing of their country, and we don't run their country

does anyone know if we pay them for the land, or if it is given to us?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
No, I don't remember that. What I rmember were plenty of people (I'm talking globally, not just limited to the tiny world of P&N) in the US and elsewhere objecting to the invasion of Afghanistan. Many also claimed we'd get mired down there, just like the USSR did, fighting an endless guerilla war in an unfamiliar barren landscape. They claimed we had no real proof bin Laden or al Qaeda was involved and that the Taliban was not complicit with bin Laden, yada, yada, yada...

They were wrong then too.

I guess maybe you forgot your recent history, again

Someone apparently has.

I guess you were watching different news than I was. There are always naysayers; but the consensus for action in Afghanistan was pretty solid, compared to Iraq.

There didn't seem to me much doubt that the Taliban and Al Qaeda had strong ties, and that Afghanistan therefore presented a clear and present danger to the world through terrorist ties. This coming from a flaming liberal Canadian, I'm afraid your recollection of 2001-2002 isn't too good.

 

[Genx87]

guess you were watching different news than I was. There are always naysayers; but the consensus for action in Afghanistan was pretty solid, compared to Iraq.

No it wasnt really. Iraq became an election year issue and the liberals needed to look tough. What better way than to say Afghanistan was ok but Iraq wasnt? It shows they are tough when they want to be but puts questions in peoples mind about the current administration.

Truth is if it wasnt an election year those same libs would be whining about Afghanistan and how it was only for an oil pipeline from Russia. A political favor.

It was all over this forum and other forums until John Kerry was the front runner and the democrats started planting the seeds of doubt.

There didn't seem to me much doubt that the Taliban and Al Qaeda had strong ties, and that Afghanistan therefore presented a clear and present danger to the world through terrorist ties. This coming from a flaming liberal Canadian, I'm afraid your recollection of 2001-2002 isn't too good.

You must have missed all the neolibs then or tuned them out. If people think Iraq was a non-threatening regime. Then what could the Taliban possibly have done to the United States? We are talking about a regime who used horses and sent people on foot to vast regions of the country to defend it. About the only thing they could have done is shipped some bad opium and hope it killed some of the limosuine liberals who happily defend people like them.

 

[Kibbo]

I remember the protest over the Afghanistan invasion. In my hometown, about 40 people stood infront of city hall protesting our government's involvement.

At the largest demonstration against the Iraq war, there were over 2000 people there, and this was a conflict in which our country isn't even involved.

Perhaps you should stop thinking of the "libs" as a monolithic block.

 

[Steeplerot]

There were huge rallys here for the invasion of Afganistan I don't see where people think think that war was any better, sure send in a hit squad to arrest/ assasinate but invading afganistan lol how soon you forget history and what the soviets went through. Well another quagmire for the gulliable. Have fun dying for oil pipelines heroin etc. seems like quite a bit of the left here even bought into that scam.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There were huge rallys here for the invasion of Afganistan I don't see where people think think that war was any better, sure send in a hit squad to arrest/ assasinate but invading afganistan lol how soon you forget history and what the soviets went through. Well another quagmire for the gulliable. Have fun dying for oil pipelines heroin etc. seems like quite a bit of the left here even bought into that scam.

Are you aware of the inhumane oppression women were subjected to under the Taliban? Are you aware the entire world shunned the Taliban and Afghanistan under their rule? I remember the Soviets invading and occupying Afghanistan, not exactly the same thing we have done/are doing. We are not there oppressing them systematically under any master plan, we are doing our best to secure their freedoms and liberties while rebuilding their societies.

 

[Steeplerot]

Societys like that breed on chaos same with dictatorships. Bombing them and invading adds fuel to the fire.
The people there damn well know just as well as the Iraqis why we are there, they are not as willing to be fooled
as some here in the states.
P.S. the taliban is alive and well in most of the country still BUT those pipelines are sure getting built now that our Afgani oil pipeline mogul is in power.

 

[Alistar7]

http://www.usaid.gov/locations...near_east/afghanistan/



http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/

If you really wish to see what your govt is doing over there besides "bombing and invading".....