WWII - 63 Years Ago

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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY



(fake melodramatic rose sniped)

It is amazing that we now have Japan as an ally and sit at the same table of peace.

CsG





They and poland are doing a great job with our dirty work aren't they CsG?

Japan has said it will postpone sending troops to join the US-led coalition in Iraq until next year because of the worsening security situation.

Tokyo had hoped to deploy its first troops before the end of the year, but now says conditions are too unstable.
 

Minchenden

Member
Feb 17, 2002
71
0
0
Few countries have actually repaid the US for what was expended in WWII

Well GB did. Every last f*cking sou. And even though it bankrupted us, as was the intention of the US Govt., it was worth it.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And how long would a united europe make it under the very badly run nazis? Please, all empires fall. Hitler did not start killing jews until he was scared to death of the soviets knocking on the doors of germany itself. Actually hitler even TOLD the US to get these jews out of the new reich and if someone doesen't take em he washes his hands of what happens to them.
Guess what the response was from all the countries in the world? NO, (except cuba who said they wanted in effect "More whites" ) Where are the saviors of the repressed jewish population? Yeah, I remember the republicans were the isolationists while quite a few of them were making good money from trade with germany and wanted no immigrants, especially inferior jews. Same old conservative hypocracy diffrent age and lots of misinformation in other words the same old sh1t. Diffrent bush making $$$$ off of less wealthy and connected people far away.
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And what is even worse, is that the leaders of the Zionist movement in Palestine were, in many ways, worse than the Nazis.

"Ben Gourion, Israel's first head of State, declared outright to the "Labor" Zionists on December 7th 1938 :

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

"Must we help all those who need it without taking into account the characteristics of each one? Must we not give this action a national Zionist character and attempt to give priority to the saving of those who can be useful to the Land of Israel and to Judaism? I know it may seem cruel to pose the question in this way, but unfortunately we must establish clearly that if we are able to save 10,000 people out of the 50,000 people who can contribute to the construction of the land and to the national rebirth, or else a million Jews who will become a burden for us or at best a dead weight, we must restrict ourselves to the saving of the 10,000 who can be saved - despite the accusations and the appeals of the million left behind."

Source : Memorandum of the "Salvation Committee" of the Jewish Agency. 1943.


"We must separate the Jews into two categories, the Zionists and the partisans of assimilation. The Zionists profess a strictly racial concept and, through emigration to Palestine, they help to build their own Jewish State...our good wishes and our official goodwill go with them."

Reinhardt Heydrich 1935

The policy of collaboration reached its apogee in 1941, when the most extremist Zionist group, the "LEHI" ("Fighters for the Liberation of Israel"), led by Abraham Stern and, after his death, by a triumvirate of which Itzak Shamir was a member, committed " an unforgivable crime from the moral point of view : advocating an alliance with Hitler, with Nazi Germany, against Great Britain."


"Haaretz" quotes a letter marked "secret", sent in January 1941 by Hitler's ambassador to Ankara, Franz Von Papen, to his superiors. In it, he described his contacts with the members of the Stern Gang, joining a memorandum by the Nazi secret service agent in Damas, Werner Otto Von Hentig, regarding the negotiations with the envoys of Stern and Shamir. The memo said, notably : "cooperation between the Israel liberation movement and the new order in Europe conform with one of the speeches of the Chancellor of the Third Reich, in which Hitler stressed the need to use every combination of coalition to isolate and defeat England." It also said that the Stern Gang had "close links with the totalitarian movements in Europe, their ideology and structures." These documents are to be found at the Holocaust Memorial (Yad Vachem) in Jerusalem, classified under the number E234151-8.

The negotiations stopped abruptly when the Allied troops arrested the emissary of Stern and Shamir in June 1941. The emissary, Naftali Loubentchik, was actually arrested in the Nazi secret service office at Damascus. Other members of the group continued to have contacts with the Nazis until the arrest by the British authorities of Izhak Shamir in December 1941 for "terrorism and collaboration with the Nazi enemy."

Such a past did not prevent Izhak Shamir from becoming Prime Minister.

"In 1940, to arouse indignation against the English, who had decided to save the Jews threatened by Hitler by taking them to Mauritius, the Zionist leaders of the "Hagannah" (led by Ben Gurion) did not hesitate to blow up the ship when it called at Haifa on December 25th 1940, causing the death of 252 Jews and English crew-members."

And, it seems, not a lot has changed in Israel.











 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY



(REAL rose reinstated)

It is amazing that we now have Japan as an ally and sit at the same table of peace.

CsG

(negativism, irrelevant to the discussion, deleted)

How about some respect for those who lost and gave their lives?

CsG
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Japan was nuked on the premise that the loss of life would be less than trying to occupy all the islands and control Japan. Experience had determined that the loss of US lives would increase due to the attitude of the Japanese fighters had we gone directly after the Japanese homeland.

WRONG. That only condition japan would not except before the bombings (why we choose those locations to bomb is another matter entirely) was that the emperor give up his position. After the bombings, we accepted a peace the did not include the emperor giving up his position. They would have agreed to the exact same peace before the bombings that they did accept after.

Originally posted by: K1052


Sigh. I never claimed Hitler was talented at anything other than politics.

He had very competent subordinates, a armed forces that was unmatched at the time, and the industrial base to back it up.

Germany managed to come very close to cutting the supply lines to GB and crushing Soviet Russia.

As soon as Hilter invaded russia the war was over. The rest was just bringing the war to its inevitable conclusion.

Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I am not so sure he could have done squat to UK he BADLY lost the BoB (like half the planes of germany lost or something it would take 7 years or something to build that many more to replace them.)
And Russia yeah he coulda taken moscow a bit earlier but I can't see that happening the way he treated the russian people already sick of stalin, you give russia time, the people, the winters and the rebulding of industries in siberia (which was underway while germans were invading.) and the giant lumbering bear of russia would have laid the germans down.. and they did too.
Germans were VERY overextended farther you go into russia the worse it gets for you, and only gets worse over time.
Russia > Germany given a bit of time to mobilize and the russians have always had time on their side IMO

They got really close to cutting the shipping lanes with U-boats. If that happened the UK would have to capitulate.

The Russians managed to do all that with lots of American supplies.

Our american "supplies" were generally left in reserve, because our equiptment, particularily our tanks, because they were utter peices of sh!t compared to the likes of the t-34 and other russian designs.


By the time we entered the european theatre the war was all but over. We went in to keep the soviets out.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
The Russians managed to do all that with lots of American supplies.

Our american "supplies" were generally left in reserve, because our equiptment, particularily our tanks, because they were utter peices of sh!t compared to the likes of the t-34 and other russian designs.


By the time we entered the european theatre the war was all but over. We went in to keep the soviets out.

Large amounts of strategic materials, transportation (trucks/trains/planes), food, explosives, machine tools, fighters, bombers, and high octane aviation fuel were delivered to Russia under lend lease.

I doubt much of that was left in the rear.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
By the time it got down to the troops getting shipments it was pretty iffy if someone haden't carted the stuff off to feed a officials familys are something. The wintertime meant no supplies at all. And winter is really long up in Leningrad thus no shipping lanes. U Boats were a big hassle too. they pretty much had free reign in that little bit of sea lane that was not iced over year round.
 

RSaylors

Member
Sep 28, 2004
121
0
76
And how long would a united europe make it under the very badly run nazis?
only as long as it took to kill another few million Jews, handicapped and gypsies I suppose.

No doubt, war is a moral wrong.. so the question is, when is it acceptable to kill a human in order to benefit other humans?

Maybe all of our interactions internationally should be directly tied to human rights: that is, the right of the human to voice his beliefs both in the form of a vote and in the form of free political speech.

It is amazing that we now have Japan as an ally and sit at the same table of peace.
the Japanese are proof that every culture on earth deserves freedom.
 

wchou

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,137
0
0
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?
nuking japan was an experiment to see how effective their atom bombs were. freedom? yea right.
:roll:

Did you know that America funded Nazi for the killings of million of jews, profited off their concentration camps as well? And it's bush's grand daddy, prescott who was involved and no one did anything about it. Oh how ironic, America is the biggest liars who would rather everyone follow them like a blind sheep.

It could have been anybody who they chose to experiment on including Africa, Phillipines or any part of south east asia. We only hear one sided story so we can't say America is all great, I guess they lie a lot about past events just like with 9/11. If we are to hear it from 3rd world nation about what really happened, their story would not match what we been told. Why was Japan nuked and not Germany? they were far worse in terms of genocide.

Conclusion: I think America just wants to rule the world and had to make something up to justify their reasoning of bringing the whole world in to a their useless war, destroying each other whiile they sit and do nothing for awhile until at the last minute take little action to beat on a dead horse such as Japan.

Not fair one bit, if Americans were to know the whole truth our govenments, they would be held liable for the cause of mass mudering of innocent lives to reduce would population to make it easier for them to rule. This is how they become a superpower, one do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.
There is no good or evil in this world, their is only competition for power and to rule over one another.
It is easier to sit still, do nothing, and let other nations destroy each other.
 

imported_Leaf

Member
Jul 27, 2004
28
0
0
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Infohawk
*me shakes his head at the 43 years ago historical error*

Genx87, stop trying to drag ww2 in your neocon mud. WW2 is completely different and for you to try to compare it to the Iraq debacle is insulting to the greatest generation who fought for our freedom.

They didnt fight for freedom

Our freedoms were never taken away

The US did nothing for the millions of dead jews, they left eastern europe in the care of the soviets and they nuked japan...how was this "fighting for freedom"?

watch more history channel and you can see the strategy of us fighting the japanese

btw, we WERE also in germany, which makes at least 2 theatres of combats on opposite sides of hte world

WTF. You are one uninformed individual. Everybody knows history channel is CIA propaganda.

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
By the time it got down to the troops getting shipments it was pretty iffy if someone haden't carted the stuff off to feed a officials familys are something. The wintertime meant no supplies at all. And winter is really long up in Leningrad thus no shipping lanes. U Boats were a big hassle too. they pretty much had free reign in that little bit of sea lane that was not iced over year round.

The Russian officers did not steal $11 Billion dollars worth of aid. Stalin might have noticed.

The bulk of the shipments went through Iran, the rest went through Vladivostok and Murmansk.
 
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