WWII: What if D-Day didnt succeed?

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
What if the Germans stopped us?
ie: Rommel's Panzer division didnt turn back, but reached Normandy in time to help defend vs our beachhead

I have no doubt that we would still have won since we had the Atomic bomb. But we would have dropped a couple in Germany first. Japan seeing that, would have surrendered. Thus no A-bombs dropped into Japan.

Your thoughts?
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
The Russians would advance further to the West. By the End of 44 there was no one who could stop the Soviet advance. Also, if the war would lasted few more months, Germany would be nuked - just as Japan was.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Wouldn't have mattered and even the atomic bomb wouldn't have been necessary. By that point we had destroyed most of Germany's manufacturing ability and eliminated their primary sources for fuel, steel and rubber. It would have taken longer, but we would have ground them down little by little. We could get more men and material to the front to replace losses, they couldn't. The war was over before D-Day and if the Germans had anyone but a lunatic in charge they would have quit before that.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
This question has been asked for 70 years.

my brain just exploded


I think we would have focused on Japan and told Britain to hang in there. Look at how easily we gave up on the Philippines but went back when we were better equipped.
 

PieIsAwesome

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2007
4,054
1
0
Soviets would have threatened to take over all of Europe and, in order to prevent this and end the war before that happens, Germany would have to be nuked like Japan. Though I don't think the nukes were ready at the time.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Wouldn't have mattered and even the atomic bomb wouldn't have been necessary. By that point we had destroyed most of Germany's manufacturing ability and eliminated their primary sources for fuel, steel and rubber. It would have taken longer, but we would have ground them down little by little. We could get more men and material to the front to replace losses, they couldn't. The war was over before D-Day and if the Germans had anyone but a lunatic in charge they would have quit before that.

Even after being beaten at that point, the Germany certainly pushed very hard. I have to think that the morale boost of beating the Allied at Normandy would have helped. All it would have taken was a swift drive into Russia again to cause a peace treaty to be signed. Not that Hitler would have allowed that. His dreams were purely insanity considering Germany's resources.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Better question is what if that uneducated yokel Hitler didn't stop his nuclear scientists. I read an alternative history book that said they would have had fat man in 1939.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,492
1,683
136
If we would have been pushed back into the Ocean on D-day there would have been some serious reprucissions however the end game would have been the same Germany losing.

We have to remember that we where already in Europe down in Italy and there is still the landing's in Southern France that would have occured.

However the biggest question is with Germany not having to deploy extra forces in the west how much could they have delayed the Russian advance in the east? The Red Army launched a massive attack on June 24, 1944 which basically crushed Army Group Centre and the advanced wasn't halted until the Soviets where in Poland. The Red Army was also pushing into Romania at the same time. I just don't see the German Army able to stop this massive attack and at the same time they are being destroyed from the air. Probably the Allies would have liberated France from the South however the Red Army would have been left in control of most of Germany.

Also probably Eishenhower would have been sacked so you would have no post war presidency by Eishenhower. However I don't think things would have gotten desparate enough to launch a nuclear attack.

The only potential for Nazi Germany is to blunt the Red Army attack in the East enough to have the Soviets make a separate peace with Germany. This happened in WW1 however it didn't turn out good then either foir Germany. If Germany could have inflicted signifacant casaulties on the Red Army in 1994 and made significant peace concessions (IE maybe back to the June 1941 Germany, Soviet border) then maybe the Soviets would make separate peace with the Germans splitting the allies.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
the russians would have reached the rhine

This. It was over for Hitler the moment he decided to invade Russia. They would have lost even more troops than they did but they would have eventually crushed Hitler anyway.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,492
1,683
136
Better question is what if that uneducated yokel Hitler didn't stop his nuclear scientists. I read an alternative history book that said they would have had fat man in 1939.

The Nazi's where far away from having a atomic bomb. It took the US with a incredible amount of resources until 1945 to develop a working atomic bomb. Germany had no where near the same amount of resources. The Manhattan project was a extremely large project project requiring a large amount of industrial resources. Also the Nazi's had managed to chase most of there best scientist's out of the Germany.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,431
2,347
136
WHY IS D-DAY SO IMPORTANT?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006022507539

D Day was a fork in the road of history, a role of the dice which could have led the world down one of two paths - if it had failed Germany could have regrouped and secured its territory gains. Some claim Hitler, whose scientists were already demonstrating their achievements in rocketry, could have developed of the atom bomb.

Besides the incredible courage, and brilliant strategy it was arguably only as a result of a combination of coincidences and mistakes that the Germans didn't succeed in resisting the landings. Never had world history had such a pivotal day (arguably the Cuban missile crisis deadline is comparable).

- Rommel, the German commander, returned from his headquarters in Normandy to Germany for his wife's birthday on June 6th, removing the immediacy of a local army commander. He believed the weather conditions to be unsuitable for an invasion

- Hitler, who succeeded early in the war by giving generals initiative, micro mangaged later in the war with-holding key tank forces that could have prevented the beach-head

- Eisenhower needed very specific weather for the invasion - a late rising moon and a low tide. Meteorologistsof the day told Eisenhower these weather conditions would exist on June 5th, 6th, and 7th. Originally, Eisenhower chose June 5th as the invasion day, but due to an unexpected storm, he postponed it for 24 hours. Meteorologists then reported a new weather front that would cause some temporary clearing over the English Channel. The clearer weather conditions would last only until the morning of the 6th and then the weather would get worse. Rather than postpone the invasion, Eisenhower and his commanders decided to go through with the invasion on June 6th.

- a double agent codenamed Garbo told his German coordinators at 3am on the night of June 6th that an invasion was occurring in Normandy, revealing the true invasion intentions. He knew they would be starting to receive reports corroborating this giving his intelligence great creditbility. Then after telling the truth he sold the German intelligence the really big lie - that the Allies were communicating to their forces that there was to be utter secrecy about 'other landings' (leading German intelligence to believe what they wanted to hear - that the Normandy invasion was a bluff and the real attack was in the pas de Calais) a bluff which succesfuly led to Hitler holding back his forces in the believe that the real landings were in Calias.

The outcome of D-Day was an early end to the war in both Europe and Japan. Had D-Day failed the allies would have needed to wait until 45 or 46 to reattempt the landings.

There is great debate as to whether if D-Day had failed Hitler could have used the extra time to develop the atom bomb. Some sides say he disputed this Jewish physics pioneered by Einstein, however he did develop heavy water facilities in Normandy. If D-Day had failed with the bomb he might have brokerered a peace securing his territory gains.

It must be pointed out that even if D-Day had failed the Russians would still have been likely to have succeeded and potentially secured a much larger amount of territory in Europe when peace was secured. Without D-Day the western allies would not have had control of France, Spain and England which might have fallen to communism and the Cold War would have been a very different story.

Imagine a world where Europe had been run by a brutal totalitarian state through the 40s and 50s. America would have become isolated. One can only speculate on the outcome but it would be hard not to imagine millions more dying and the implications affecting more than just those countries directly involved in the conflict.

Mao Tse Tung was asked 50 years ago what the effect of the French revolution of 1789 had been and he replied that it was too early to tell. This response could also not be more apt to describe the consequences and importance of D-Day today.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
The Nazi's where far away from having a atomic bomb. It took the US with a incredible amount of resources until 1945 to develop a working atomic bomb. Germany had no where near the same amount of resources. The Manhattan project was a extremely large project project requiring a large amount of industrial resources. Also the Nazi's had managed to chase most of there best scientist's out of the Germany.

This.

They had built a test reactor with just about all the uranium ore they had, which was barely able to sustain a controlled reaction, but had no where near the kinds of enrichment facilities needed to actually build a bomb. They were years away from being able to actually put one together. They had Heisenberg on their side who was indeed brilliant but all the rest had defected to America by that time.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
You guys don't get it he started alienating unconventional scientists back in 38 when Germans Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassmann discoved fission - they were relegated to working on conventional munitions after repeatedly trying too gain funding from the Reich. With no funding, no resources, exodus and so forth.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
taking it a step further, I wonder if Russia conquering Germany basically solo would have led to the iron curtain descending over everything east of Britain.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
it woulda been pretty hard to lose. just more costly, at the point of d day we had air superiority already. more tanks just wastes of men and time, they were pretty f*cked at that point regardless. it woulda been more like the bad japanese landings cept theres only one island for europe so you'd only have to go through it once. hitler woulda had to fall back anyways, defending from frances coast is just logistically costly.
 

krcat1

Senior member
Jan 20, 2005
551
0
0
The real nightmare would have been a Nazi-Soviet ceasefire. Most would believe this to be impossible, but if Bagration had not been as successful, the chance for a ceasefire existed. The German and Soviets were negotiating prior to the Battle of Kursk, and if the Russian were stopped in '44, Stalin could have considered it. The sticking point was the exact border between the two empires. If this could have been settled, then the Germans would have gained a respite from destruction.
 

krcat1

Senior member
Jan 20, 2005
551
0
0
Actually, the US might have taken a severe turn to the right. The right would have used any ceasefire as propaganda against liberals in the US, and the higher body count caused by a Soviet exit could have made Americans more receptive to this talk.

I do not think that the war would have lasted much longer than it did. Germany would have been nuked, and the German could have retaliated by using nerve gas. Then the Allied would have hit German with everything, and the German economy would have collapsed.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
taking it a step further, I wonder if Russia conquering Germany basically solo would have led to the iron curtain descending over everything east of Britain.
The story behind C&C Red Alert isn't that far fetched. USSR was gaining ground before D-Day happened. Areas not liberated by the Brits and Americans would be liberated by the Soviets, and that could include all of Europe.
 
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