[X-bit Labs] Intel’s Haswell Could Be Last Interchangeable Desktop Microprocessors

[Final8ty]

As personal computers become smaller, their flexibility is decreasing. According to a media report starting from code-named Broadwell generation of processors, Intel Corp. will only offer mainstream desktop chips in BGA packaging, which will eliminate upgrade options as well as increase risks for PC makers.

Both Intel and Advanced Micro Devices supply two different desktop platforms these days, making a very clear difference between mainstream and high-end desktop. Still, mainstream PCs with simplistic processors may easily be upgraded with very fast processors thanks to the fact that the chips are interchangeable and come in the same LGA1155 form-factor. Unfortunately, the ease of upgrade may come to an end in two years as starting from Broadwell generation of central processing units (CPUs) mainstream chips will cease to use land grid array (LGA) and micro pin grid array (µPGA) packages and will only be available in in ball grid array (BGA) form-factors, just like Intel Atom processors.

Read more
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...hangeable_Desktop_Microprocessors_Report.html

 

[ShintaiDK]

We already got a thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2284670

 

[pablo87]

He's talking about the socket. I personally think its time for it and the traditional mb to go in most market segments (but not all).

I just built my first machine in years and for what we wanted - a basic gaming rig - the infrastructure, incl. the socket, was overkill. Total cost was $490 ($160 for 2500k, $200 for 7850 card and $130 for Mb). WAG that's the 7850 chip is $50, and GDDR5 is $50 for 2Gb, that leaves $230 for the rest???

 

[Idontcare]

Why not? It works for discrete video cards where the ram and GPU are soldered onto the PCB.

I'm sure the mobo makers are salivating at the prospects of becoming what would essentially be an AIB for the CPU market, selling "discrete CPU" gear with the CPU and ram soldered onto a PCB that sports a few PCIe slots.

Its already done for smartphone and tablet markets. Complete with soldered-on NAND storage.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't like this trend. What about the processor upgrade market? Isn't Intel shooting itself in the foot here? What about people that upgrade from one CPU to another? Intel sells 2x CPUs then, for every 1 motherboard, for those upgraders.

Certainly, there could be cost benefits to OEMs, and that is likely to be the majority of the market, I suppose.

I wonder how many people nowadays actually upgrade their computers? I'm talking about the mainstream segment, not the enthusiast.

It would suck for the enthusiast, to be forced to purchase what are essentially server-grade parts, to get interchangeable parts.

 

[pablo87]

Why not? It works for discrete video cards where the ram and GPU are soldered onto the PCB.

I'm sure the mobo makers are salivating at the prospects of becoming what would essentially be an AIB for the CPU market, selling "discrete CPU" gear with the CPU and ram soldered onto a PCB that sports a few PCIe slots.

Its already done for smartphone and tablet markets. Complete with soldered-on NAND storage.

Was done for 386sx remember? ECS (the original not the reincarnated) made a killing from Intel 386sx allocations. Of course it went to their head and they started building crappy mobo's using SIS 6 chip x 100pin pqfp chipset.

Intel should be selective about who the partners are though...ASUS, GB, ??? the list going to be pretty short I'm afraid which is fine.

 

[pablo87]

I don't like this trend. What about the processor upgrade market? Isn't Intel shooting itself in the foot here? What about people that upgrade from one CPU to another? Intel sells 2x CPUs then, for every 1 motherboard, for those upgraders.

Certainly, there could be cost benefits to OEMs, and that is likely to be the majority of the market, I suppose.

I wonder how many people nowadays actually upgrade their computers? I'm talking about the mainstream segment, not the enthusiast.

It would suck for the enthusiast, to be forced to purchase what are essentially server-grade parts, to get interchangeable parts.

I agree that if they go down that path 100% it will be stupid because those enthusiasts are willing to pay top dollar. But for rest of 90%, it's Better.

And in fact, Intel wants healthy competition between socket segment and BGA, they want the high ASP marketing team to take share from those cheap Charlie BGAers.

 

[A5]

I imagine the market currently served by SB-E will still exist with the traditional socket architecture. Intel has been wanting to force enthusiasts to higher-margin parts for a long time - they started forcing it when they moved the clock-module on-die in SB and made the cheapest overclockable CPU the i5-2500K. Honestly, I don't really mind as long as there is a mini-ITX K-version with a PCIe x16 slot and plenty of USB

Article also says that the report says the highest TDP Broadwell parts will be 57W, FWIW.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I can see everything integrating into a SoC solution but getting rid of sockets is simply retarded for desktops considering how SKU heavy Intel lineups are.

 

[Sheep221]

Till certain point, it was predictable, desktop computers are getting so powerful and cheap in same time, that overclocking and high end segment will extinct by the end of this decade. The integration of memory controllers and IGP to multi-core cpu simplified development of chipsets, which allowed both cheaper processors and motherboards, and selling all desktop boards with soldered CPUs will make them even cheaper per piece.

I can see everything integrating into a SoC solution but getting rid of sockets is simply retarded for desktops considering how SKU heavy Intel lineups are.

They plan to simplify the lineups by then

 

[epidemis]

How can you upgrade anyway when they change socket every year? I'm desktop the last 12 years, but I have never not upgraded the mobo and cpu together

 

[VirtualLarry]

I can see everything integrating into a SoC solution but getting rid of sockets is simply retarded for desktops considering how SKU heavy Intel lineups are.

Just imagine an end to Intel releasing a new CPU chip based on current architecture, but with a 1x multi (100Mhz baseclock?) boost, for the same price as current chips, and then the prior chips drop in price.

Now imagine that savvy consumers know this, so that they spend months waiting for Intel to release faster CPUs, since they are integrated on the motherboard, instead of simply purchasing CPU + mobo today, and then purchasing faster CPU some time in the future.

Also, imagine the hassle that will come of this, since Windows needs to be re-activated for every new mobo (now CPU upgrade == new mobo, since soldered on). OEM Windows customers will be out of luck.

Edit: This whole idea seems somewhat suicidal to some of their important market segments, just like Microsoft's suicidal idea to force a Tablet interface onto Desktop Windows users with Win 8. (Which Corp customers DO NOT like.)

Edit: This might lead to an expansion of Intel's pilot program for in-the-field CPU upgrades. Perhaps they will ship all of their CPUs with the capability for higher clock speeds, but limit them in firmware somehow. Then when you want to "upgrade" your CPU, you simply purchase an unlock key for a faster CPU.

Scary when you think about it, that in that sort of future, people who "overclock", WOULD be considered stealing. (Cracks for CPUs, stolen unlock codes, etc.)

 

[mrmt]

I can see everything integrating into a SoC solution but getting rid of sockets is simply retarded for desktops considering how SKU heavy Intel lineups are.

10 years ago the MB was responsible for memory controller, integrated graphics, sound, networking, disk controller, diskette driver, USB and what not. There was a lot of room to wiggle with features, extra chips, extra cooling or extra slots. Today the items still around either migrated to the chip itself or disappeared, except for USB. With that also disappeared whatever room MB makers had for differentiation. Their product are essentially commodities.

Once network card and USB controller moves to the chip and PCIe storage gets traction there will be no need for chipset, what will the MB makers do? Paint the PCIe slot red and charge more for it? Draw a skull on the PCB? I don't think it's really Intel killing the MB market, but MB makers telling Intel that they are done with it and want to do some other thing.

 

[Yuriman]

Sockets change so often I find I rarely upgrade CPUs. Last time I upgraded a processor without a complete rebuild was around 2005, though if I can find a super cheap Q6600 I may upgrade my father's E6600 which he's had for 6 years.

 

[videoclone]

When a $100 board with a $400 CPU in it fail's you spend $100 and replace the board
When a $500 Board and chip built into it fail's you spend another $500 to replace both

This is not only bad for the environment its also bad for your pocket.
And from all the blown capacitors on motherboards over the years i think this is a BAD idea.

 

[mrmt]

When a $100 board with a $400 CPU in it fail's you spend $100 and replace the board
When a $500 Board and chip built into it fail's you spend another $500 to replace both.

The less functionality you put on the board the board, less complex and less prone to failures it becomes.

 

[moonbogg]

How can you upgrade anyway when they change socket every year? I'm desktop the last 12 years, but I have never not upgraded the mobo and cpu together

Yep. Its been years since I did a drop in CPU upgrade. If they were available and were actually worth it then i'd do it. So you buy your cpu/mobo with the config you want, then grab your GPU and you're done basically. Sounds OK to me.

 

[SickBeast]

I've moved on to a laptop so this doesn't really bother me.

 

[tommo123]

when did cpus ever fail anyway? i've had mobos, psus, gpus, ram fail on me but never a cpu (touch wood).

as long as the gpu is an add on component that you add yourself i'd have no probs with this. plenty of ram on the SOC would allow intel to do some trickery i bet.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Ugh, I wouldn't ever buy myself a motherboard with the CPU soldered in. I hope Intel never pulls that move. It's already bad enough they're axing their sockets every other year.

 

[zebrax2]

If this happens i just hope the lower end processors don't get stuck with cheap bottom of the barrel motherboards, essentially forcing you to buy a more powerful processor that you may not need to get the features that you want.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The socket changes I could deal with although I find it totally unnecessary, but this really limits the buying options as a consumer.

Unlike a videocard where its purpose is to do one thing (3d games!) or two at most, the motherboard as so many functionalities on the board itself that having the CPU soldered onto the board means less choices. What if I wanted a board with alot of Sata/USB3 ports + a low end processor yet if this comes to fruition, its most likely that the higher end processor will be tied to higher end boards that tend to have lots of ports. I guess it doesn't mean much for the average person but enthusiasts like us will have less variety to pick and choose from.

 

[HypX]

Intel needs to bring back Slot 1 again. Maybe with a PCI-E bus and a built-in heat sink and fan as a modernized version. If they integrate DRAM on package, then CPU swaps will be just like GPU swaps.

 

[2is]

I don't like this trend. What about the processor upgrade market? Isn't Intel shooting itself in the foot here? What about people that upgrade from one CPU to another? Intel sells 2x CPUs then, for every 1 motherboard, for those upgraders.

Certainly, there could be cost benefits to OEMs, and that is likely to be the majority of the market, I suppose.

I wonder how many people nowadays actually upgrade their computers? I'm talking about the mainstream segment, not the enthusiast.

It would suck for the enthusiast, to be forced to purchase what are essentially server-grade parts, to get interchangeable parts.

VERY few people upgrade CPU's only. Outside of the enthusiest market, virutally no one does, and even then, it's only a certain number of enthusiests. The last time I upgraded a CPU only was when I had a sinlge core Athlon 64 and they came out with the X2's

 

[OBLAMA2009]

im sure itll be all for the better. machines will be smaller, higher performing enough and cheap enough that no one will need "high end" machines as they exist today. plus who knows how all the cloud computing stuff will evolve that may make cpu performances irrelevant