X1950XTX - 8800GTX - 8800GTS

[vikingblade]

Hi guys. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 8800gtx, however, reconsidered, lots of things to consider. Please help, I really need your input...

Will a GTX or GTS fit in my case? Ive got the Antec SLK3000
Will my power supply be ok? Ive got the Fortron 450

Other factors... I am currently running an EPOX Motherboard, AMD 3500 and ATI X1800XT. ALSO, I will be displaying games at 1600x1200. I want to be able to play the newest games with AA/AF eye candy maxed. Rainbow Six Vegas, FEAR etc... and the upcoming Crysis smoothly.

If I go over to an 8800, will I need to do a hd reformat and clean winxp install, to avoid ati/nvidia driver conflicts? Or, will a simple ati driver uninstall be enough?

Any known conflicts with epox, amd and the 8800?

What is the current, honest state of nvidia's drivers? Anything to be worry about?

Im assuming the X1950XTX would be the easiest upgrade, wouldnt even have to change drivers, and is cheaper than the 8800. However, Im concerned the 1950 isnt much of an upgrade from the 1800, and, less performance than the 8800.

So, X1950XTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTS? Any opinions, input or suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: vikingblade
Hi guys. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 8800gtx, however, reconsidered, lots of things to consider. Please help, I really need your input...

Will a GTX or GTS fit in my case? Ive got the Antec SLK3000
Will my power supply be ok? Ive got the Fortron 450

Other factors... I am currently running an EPOX Motherboard, AMD 3500 and ATI X1800XT. ALSO, I will be displaying games at 1600x1200. I want to be able to play the newest games with AA/AF eye candy maxed. Rainbow Six Vegas, FEAR etc... and the upcoming Crysis smoothly.
If I go over to an 8800, will I need to do a hd reformat and clean winxp install, to avoid ati/nvidia driver conflicts? Or, will a simple ati driver uninstall be enough?

Any known conflicts with epox, amd and the 8800?

What is the current, honest state of nvidia's drivers? Anything to be worry about?

Im assuming the X1950XTX would be the easiest upgrade, wouldnt even have to change drivers, and is cheaper than the 8800. However, Im concerned the 1950 isnt much of an upgrade from the 1800, and, less performance than the 8800.

So, X1950XTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTS? Any opinions, input or suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.

8800gts at 1600x1200 will do that. Plus it should be easier on your PSU.
No reformat needed.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: vikingblade
Im assuming the X1950XTX would be the easiest upgrade, wouldnt even have to change drivers, and is cheaper than the 8800. However, Im concerned the 1950 isnt much of an upgrade from the 1800, and, less performance than the 8800.

You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: vikingblade
Im assuming the X1950XTX would be the easiest upgrade, wouldnt even have to change drivers, and is cheaper than the 8800. However, Im concerned the 1950 isnt much of an upgrade from the 1800, and, less performance than the 8800.

You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

If he wants to run with max quality ("aa/af maxed") with those games ,he needs a 8800gts 640 version. The 320 version won't cut it.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

umm.. that's a lie.

for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game, the performance of the 8800GTS differently between the 320 and 640mb version.

it's my opinion the GTS is still the better card tho, and certainly the better value due to it's lower price.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

umm.. that's a lie.

for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game, the performance of the 8800GTS differently between the 320 and 640mb version.

it's my opinion the GTS is still the better card tho, and certainly the better value due to it's lower price.

No it's not a lie, looking at 16x12 it outperforms it in most benchmarks and it's cheaper. Not to mention that the drivers for it are not mature like the X1950 so it has room for even more.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q1/geforce-8800gts-320mb/index.x?pg=1

 

[happy medium]

Theres really no need to argue the op wants to run with max quality with aa/af which the 8800gts 320 does very poorly. Especially with games like Vegas and FEAR. 8800gts 640 ftw.

 

[vikingblade]

Thanks for the input. I really want to be able to run the new games very well. im so tired of lg, stutter and having to lower my eye candy. a year ago, my 1800xt was kick ass... now, its painful to play rs vegs at 1024x768!!! and fear stutters like hell.

will the 8800 fit in my case? will my fortron 450 be enough power?

how much faster are these cards than my 1800?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

umm.. that's a lie.

for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game, the performance of the 8800GTS differently between the 320 and 640mb version.

it's my opinion the GTS is still the better card tho, and certainly the better value due to it's lower price.

No it's not a lie,

"for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game"

how exactly is the GTS outperforming the XTX with "no problem" there?

looking at 16x12 it outperforms it in most benchmarks and it's cheaper.

i already acknowledged that by stating it depends on the game/settings, and it's imo a better value due to it's lower price.

Not to mention that the drivers for it are not mature like the X1950 so it has room for even more.

speculation. possible, but unlikely. the last few generations have not shown any substantial gains due to "driver maturity". mostly bug fixes and small, if any increases. some driver revisions even turn out slower.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q1/geforce-8800gts-320mb/index.x?pg=1

heh. you should read the article:

"This raises the question: will you be better off in the long run with a DX10 card with 320MB of memory or a DX9 card like the Radeon X1950 XTX with 512MB of memory? I'm not sure I can answer that."

sounds like a solid endorsement to me...

again, imo it's a nice card, and personally i would chose it over the x1950st, but contrary to your heavily biased endorsement, it's certainly not without it's own caveats.

 

[TBSN]

CaiNaM,
I can't believe you could continue this whole GTSvs.XTX argument after it was abandoned because it was totally OT? Besides, the OP just asked a question that has nothing to do with that argument

Sorry but sometimes I can't believe how soon people can forget that the forum is broken into topics for a reason; this isn't a chatroom...

Sorry OP but I can't answer your question. I'd like to hear what people have to say in response to it though.

 

[Munky]

Get a gts 640mb. The 320mb version gives up too much performance in several games with AA enabled.

 

[chizow]

Either GTS should be fine and both are a better choice than the X1950 at this point. I'm sure performance on the 320MB part will improve with new drivers in high res/AA settings, but it looks like the damage is already done.

Drivers for the 8800 were good when I got the card, but in the month and a half since, there hasn't been much improvement. Still a lot of bugs out there and very few updates as nVidia is still focusing on getting WHQL Vista drivers out I suppose. I'd go ahead and take a look at the release notes on the 97.92 WHQLs and see if there's any show-stopping bugs in games that you play.

Not sure if you'll be able to run R6: Vegas or Crysis with AA/AF cranked up @ 1600. PSU, mobo, and case should be fine. Shouldn't need a clean install, just uninstall the old drivers or use Driver Cleaner and install the new ones.

 

[vikingblade]

thanks chizow... are you sure the 8800's will fit my case and my ps is ok?

is there a major increase in performance going with the gtx over the gts 640?

would the gtx absolutely run the toughest games well with maxed quality at 16x12?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: vikingblade
thanks chizow... are you sure the 8800's will fit my case and my ps is ok?

That case looks to be about the size of my old Lian-Li PC-60, so unless you have something like a HDD cage or a fan duct blocking the first/second expansion slots, it should fit no problem. At 9.5", its a big card but I'm fairly certain there's been other cards that have been a tighter fit in ATX mid-towers. There's a 3-4 page list of confirmed cases here on AT, it shouldn't be further back than page 2. The GTX is another 1.5" but it has the dual power connectors on top instead of the side. It would've been a tight fit in my PC-60, but it would fit no problem in my Nine Hundred even with the fan bracket.

If its a quality 450W PSU and your system isn't overly loaded with optical/hdd, it should be fine. I've seen some rigs similar to my current one running just fine on 450-500W PSUs and my Antec TP 480W ran the rig in my sig with no problems (1 less Raptor, non-OC'd, 2 fewer 120mm fans).

is there a major increase in performance going with the gtx over the gts 640?

Stock, out-of-the-box, yes. The GTX has faster default core/shader/memory speeds as well as 128 shader cores compared to 96 on the GTS. You can make up some of this performance difference by OC'ing the 8800 GTS to GTX speeds (quite effortlessly), but you're still left with a slightly slower shader core clock speed and 32 fewer shader cores. Even at the same clock speeds though, the GTX is significantly faster than the GTS. The 128MB difference in memory really only comes into play at 2560, where the GTX stands alone.

would the gtx absolutely run the toughest games well with maxed quality at 16x12?

It should for some time yes. At 16x12 you might want to look at the 640MB GTS though and save yourself $150-200. If it weren't for the horrible state of affairs of SLI (and Crossfire), I'd say getting 2x 320MB GTS for almost the same price as the GTX would be a better buy, but ya....SLI right now is pretty broken. Plus you're working with an older mobo so I doubt you'd want to replace that too.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TBSN
CaiNaM,
I can't believe you could continue this whole GTSvs.XTX argument after it was abandoned because it was totally OT?

you get lost in the wrong thread?

from the OP, "So, X1950XTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTS? Any opinions,..."

now go pretend to be a mod somewhere else, please.

and BTW, thank you very much for your wonderful contribution to this thread.

 

[Stumps]

hmmm from what I gathered from different reviews, the 640mb version of the GTS would be the way to go if you want to crank the detail sliders up all the way, the 320mb seemed to take to much of a performance hit when running at full detail at higher resolutions...the 320mb version seem to be better suited to users like me, who run at a slightly lower resolution with a little less detail just to keep the frame rates up high and consistant.

I think that a GTX would be overkill for your 3500+....

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
"for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game"

how exactly is the GTS outperforming the XTX with "no problem" there?

Ah the good ole cherrypicking of benchmarks. TR did say this "With the exception of F.E.A.R., XFX's GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB XXX Edition outperforms the Radeon X1950 XTX pretty consistently ". So one game that may just be driver bug, yeah I would say no problem.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
"for example, according to the AT review, FEAR @ 1600/4xAA the XTX handily defeats the 320mb GTS (56fps vs 46fps). it totally depends on the game and settings. depending on the game"

how exactly is the GTS outperforming the XTX with "no problem" there?

Ah the good ole cherrypicking of benchmarks. TR did say this "With the exception of F.E.A.R., XFX's GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB XXX Edition outperforms the Radeon X1950 XTX pretty consistently ". So one game that may just be driver bug, yeah I would say no problem.

call of duty 2 is another one that the 320mb version gets it ass handed to it. @ 1600 4xaa/16x af the 1950xtx handily beats the 320mb 8800GTS by a full 20fps. when using AA with higher resolutions, the 320mb takes a dive in different games, and the 1950 XTX proves faster.

oblivion also favors the 1950xtx when using AA @ higher resolutions. other games, such as gothic 3, the 320mb GTS barely edges out the 1950xtx.

i'm just showing both sides of the story, rather than simply making a biased 'blanket' assumption as you do, which can mislead those looking for accurate info. while your statement might hold true under certain situations, that's not true for all cases.

the 320mb card is a good value, but it certainly doesn't provide the best performance in all situations, and while the 640mb GTS pretty handily beats the XTX in most situations, the same does not hold true for the 320mb part.

 

[saiku]

Could someone please answer the question about the power supply? I'd like to know too

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: vikingblade
Thanks for the input. I really want to be able to run the new games very well. im so tired of lg, stutter and having to lower my eye candy. a year ago, my 1800xt was kick ass... now, its painful to play rs vegs at 1024x768!!! and fear stutters like hell.

will the 8800 fit in my case? will my fortron 450 be enough power?how much faster are these cards than my 1800?

Yes, for the 8800gts. not sure about the gtx

Something I read about the fortron 450 and 8800gtx.

Post subject: Re: 8800GTX on a 450W [Login to view extended thread Info.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Naish wrote:
I've got a Fortron 450W FSP Saga. I know it will run a 1900XTX oc'd (slightly) with no problems. I generally don't have a very power hungry computer.

1x 4200+ X2 - Socket 939
1x Asus A8N-E
2x 1GB DDR400
1x IDE 200GB
1x Seagate 250GB SATA2
1x LG DVD Burner

Now, I DO plan on buying a new power supply in the future. The 8800GTX however, has left me somewhat broke. Anyone know if it will atleast run until I have the time to buy a new PSU? (2 weeks tops)





The FSP 450w Saga provides 348w on the 12v rails. Look at the sticker on the PSU to confirm this. That means the PSU can provide 29 amps on the 12v rails. Based on your system specs, the FSP should be able to support the 8800GTX.

Here's what I estimated the max load on the 12v rail will be:

4200+ OC'ed to 4800+.............................................96w CPU Power Consumption
8800GTX................................................................146w GPU Power Consumption
2 Hard Drives............................................................32w
1 DVD Drive..............................................................16w
2 80mm Fans..............................................................8w

Total max power consumption on 12v rail....................298w
Total max amp consumption on 12v rail....................24.83a

Note: The above assumes a X2 4800+ CPU, an exact measurement of the 4200+ isn't provided. If I were to guess then I'll peg it at about 74w. That means estimated power consumption would drop to around 276w and the amps would drop to 23. That means you have 72w or 6 amps to spare.

If you are an overclocker, then I suggest do not overclock either the CPU or the GPU when you install the 8800GTX. Test your system to make sure it is stable then slowly overclock. It is not a good idea to stress the PSU to the limit.

All other components draws power from the 3.3v or 5v rails. Hard drives and DVD/CD drives draws power from both 5v and 12v rails.

Edit: heres the whole thread

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/8800GTX-450W-ftopict215443.html

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: saiku
Could someone please answer the question about the power supply? I'd like to know too

there's no 'set' answer. it depends on what other devices are in the system. hard drives, optical drives, fans, etc. draw from the 12v line.

if your psu can drive all those devices, and still maintain 26a on the 12v rail, then you should have no problem.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: saiku
Could someone please answer the question about the power supply? I'd like to know too

The GTS uses less than a X1900XT 256mb under load.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q1/geforce-8800gts-320mb/index.x?pg=9

On the TR test system they were getting about 255 Watts. So a good 400w supply should handle it no problem. Not counting SLI of course.

 

[CaiNaM]

one thing to keep in mind tho is that the wattage rating is only part of the equation. even 'good' psu's built a couple of years ago may not be enough to drive today's devices even if they are 400w or greater. you'll see many that don't have enough amperage on the 12v rail(s) but have lots on the 3.3v and 5v rails. most single rail psu's will only have 18w (due to atx specs), where today's psu's often have multiple rails of 18a or greater. it's not just the 'wattage'; how/where the power is distributed is of greater importance.

 

[BFG10K]

You can get a 8800GTS 320mb for less than a X1950XTX and it will outperform it no problem.

It might well have a problem if you run 4xAA.

 

[DerComissar]

Originally posted by: vikingblade
Hi guys. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 8800gtx, however, reconsidered, lots of things to consider. Please help, I really need your input...

Will a GTX or GTS fit in my case? Ive got the Antec SLK3000
Will my power supply be ok? Ive got the Fortron 450

Other factors... I am currently running an EPOX Motherboard, AMD 3500 and ATI X1800XT. ALSO, I will be displaying games at 1600x1200. I want to be able to play the newest games with AA/AF eye candy maxed. Rainbow Six Vegas, FEAR etc... and the upcoming Crysis smoothly.

If I go over to an 8800, will I need to do a hd reformat and clean winxp install, to avoid ati/nvidia driver conflicts? Or, will a simple ati driver uninstall be enough?

Any known conflicts with epox, amd and the 8800?

What is the current, honest state of nvidia's drivers? Anything to be worry about?

Im assuming the X1950XTX would be the easiest upgrade, wouldnt even have to change drivers, and is cheaper than the 8800. However, Im concerned the 1950 isnt much of an upgrade from the 1800, and, less performance than the 8800.

So, X1950XTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTS? Any opinions, input or suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.

I would like to add my 2 bits, having upgraded to an EVGA 8800 GTS 640mb a couple months ago. I was running a 1900XTX and briefly tried a 1950 XTX but I had no gains from it so I decided to go with the 8800.
My case is a similar size to your Antec, (Coolermaster Centurion 534) and the GTS fits fine with plenty of clearance. An 8800 GTX would clear as well.
I think your p/s would be fine with the GTS but not sure with the more power-hungry GTX.
I simply uninstalled the ATI drivers and used Driver Cleaner then installed the Nvidia 97.92 which worked fine, no issues with any games I am running.

I was also considering the 8800 GTX but it is $250 more after taxes where I live and that was too much. I got the 8800 GTS 640mb for about the same price as the ATI X1950XTX and it is even cheaper now. Currently, I bench 11,000 on 3D06 and FEAR runs like silk with all the settings maxed.
I can't see why the AMD/Epox setup should not run well with an 8800. I think the 8800 GTS 640mb offers the best bang for the buck, the performance difference is amazing