X38 Chipset

[nrb]

Originally posted by: quadraphonic
It seems weird for this big "performance" board to be coming out without SLI support. nVidia's the big boy right now and while that could change, this seems a step in the wrong direction IMO. Hopefully we see SLI/xfire compatability to keep the customization options open.

It's not that Intel has decided not to support SLI, it's that Nvidia has decided not to allow SLI on a non-Nvidia motherboard. If Nvidia and ATI were on an equal footing at the moment, Nvidia might lose out by high-end gamers deciding they want an Intel chipset motherboard and switching to ATI video cards. But the reality is that 8800GTX does not merely beat R600, it micturates on it from a great height. High-end gamers are therefore obliged to go for SLI rather than Crossfire; which means Nvidia can make even more money by forcing them to buy an Nvidia chipset motherboard to do it. Sadly it is not in Nvidia's interests to allow SLI on Intel chipsets.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: nrb

Originally posted by: quadraphonic
It seems weird for this big "performance" board to be coming out without SLI support. nVidia's the big boy right now and while that could change, this seems a step in the wrong direction IMO. Hopefully we see SLI/xfire compatability to keep the customization options open.

It's not that Intel has decided not to support SLI, it's that Nvidia has decided not to allow SLI on a non-Nvidia motherboard. If Nvidia and ATI were on an equal footing at the moment, Nvidia might lose out by high-end gamers deciding they want an Intel chipset motherboard and switching to ATI video cards. But the reality is that 8800GTX does not merely beat R600, it micturates on it from a great height. High-end gamers are therefore obliged to go for SLI rather than Crossfire; which means Nvidia can make even more money by forcing them to buy an Nvidia chipset motherboard to do it. Sadly it is not in Nvidia's interests to allow SLI on Intel chipsets.

Nice post. nVIDIA doesn't want to shoot its own foot either.

Thats good news from gigabyte. DDR3 is WAY too expensive plus negligible performance increase over DDR2.

What are the performance expectations of this board?
1~5% faster than the P35 across the usual benchmarks? Or does intel have something up its sleeves? Because normally high end boards also tend to perform similiarly with the mid range ones. E.g P965 vs 975X.

Unless this board will differentiate itself from the P35 by featuring what the OP said i.e more traditional performance boosts.

 

[quadraphonic]

OK.. that helps me understand the issue, though I'm certainly no happier about it. At any rate, I'm looking forward to the release as I'll either grab a great X38 board at a premium, or a great P35 board at a new sale price.

Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until the end of September for any reviews on mobo showdowns..

 

[HeXploiT]

Anyone have any thoughts on just how these boards will compete on the high end with 680I boards such as the eVGA 122-CK-NF68-AR & the striker extreme?

 

[SerpentRoyal]

The main reason for 680i is SLI. Still a huge waste of $ for a small improvement in video processing. P35 runs cooler and requires less Vcore to achieve the same clock speed.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: asdftt123

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
What prices are we looking at?

The situation is very fluid at this point but it appears most of the early release boards will be DDR3 based, so expect prices in the $250~$300 range up front. Most of the manufacturers will also have DDR2 based boards for the $175~$250 market by late October. Eventually, a few of those DDR2 boards should drop down to the $150 range or under, much in the same way the 975X boards have been slotted over time. We fully expect capitalism at its best for the first 30 days, so seeing a first to market board around $350 will probably not surprise us.

So does that mean there will be no DDR2 versions upon the early-mid September release? Will we have to wait till late October to see any DDR2 versions? If so, that's a huge bummer. I wonder how many people will take the hit and spend $800+ on a kit of DDR3 + X38...? Probably nobody sane.

What kind of car you drive. The cheapest one available ? DDR3 is know differant. The X38 chipset is made and optimised for curtain DDR3 memory .
NO DDR2 memory will work with those optimization if I understand it correctly.

So calling a person insane because they buy the memory intended for this chipset is a little childish don't you think? Sure DDR3 is expensive if you buy the modules that are certified to work with its optimised memory. But as has already been pointed out the M/Bs using X38 chipsets in the performance arena are going to be expensive. I am pretty sure but not fully that when I recieve my dark star pc it will have the intel performance bad axe 3 m/b. I hope.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
What are the performance expectations of this board?
1~5% faster than the P35 across the usual benchmarks?

That's a rational and grounded prediction. X38 will not be much faster than best-in-class P35 motherboards running current C2D processors. X38 was designed for 45nm Penryn and Nehalem and will need those processors to better differentiate itself. Even then, its not going to be substantially faster, unless your notion of 'substantial' is similar to many enthusiast-oriented review sites (i.e. 1% ~ 5% faster in synthetic benchmarks = "clear performance lead").

Substantial is C2D v. Athlon X2. Substantial is not 5%, which can be erased by minute variations in motherboard design or unusual solar flare activity.

I expect X38 to be very well received on premium professional workstation motherboards or those with workstation/enthusiast cross-over appeal. Without SLI (or a competitive AMD GPU), it isn't going to shake-up the extreme gaming enthusiast segment, any more than 975X or P35 did. It will quickly replace 975X and cannibalize some P35 sales, not much else.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Its been so long I can't remember . But when AMD 64 was released how much faster was it than the P4C? I know it wasn't 20% Most the time it was only like 10% faster. I know back than Games it was faster But not a lot at High res.

The reviewers changed how they did reviews only after C2D was released. Which I always found puzzleing. I do of course understand that lcds with there higher res. changed things a bit. But still the reviews should be done at low res to show processor power.

Any way only 1 1/2 years ago 10% more performance was considered a big deal by the amd crowed. Strange how things change.

I personnelly will wait until penryn is tested with X38 chipset and DDR3 memory that is certified by intel before I draw any conclusions as to the performance advantage penryn has over conroe. After all I am more interested in total platform performance than just cpu performance.

The real question here is how fast programmers optimize for SSE4 . Because this is were will see the big gains. Since Conroe doesn't have SSE4 . Penryn will be much more in so far as SSE4 . and future proofing . I read the forums most of them weekly. Except here its a daily thing. Most users aren't tring to break world records . So a Penryn in so far as future proofing has the prospects of a much longer life with sse4 than does conroe.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: asdftt123

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
What prices are we looking at?

The situation is very fluid at this point but it appears most of the early release boards will be DDR3 based, so expect prices in the $250~$300 range up front. Most of the manufacturers will also have DDR2 based boards for the $175~$250 market by late October. Eventually, a few of those DDR2 boards should drop down to the $150 range or under, much in the same way the 975X boards have been slotted over time. We fully expect capitalism at its best for the first 30 days, so seeing a first to market board around $350 will probably not surprise us.

So does that mean there will be no DDR2 versions upon the early-mid September release? Will we have to wait till late October to see any DDR2 versions? If so, that's a huge bummer. I wonder how many people will take the hit and spend $800+ on a kit of DDR3 + X38...? Probably nobody sane.

I just got off the phone with two of the "larger" suppliers, DDR2 boards will be shipping at the same time, if not sooner than DDR3 now. The situation is extremely fluid right now, but it appears we will have both memory types up front now.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: nrb
Do you think there will be any boards that support x8/x8/x8/x8 quad-Crossfire?

The upcoming AMD 790 supports 2x16 or 4x8 CrossFire configurations and Quad CrossFire does work with Phenom. That said, the board had to run 2600XT cards due to the single slot cooling requirements required by the board layout.

 

[nrb]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: nrb
Do you think there will be any boards that support x8/x8/x8/x8 quad-Crossfire?

The upcoming AMD 790 supports 2x16 or 4x8 CrossFire configurations and Quad CrossFire does work with Phenom.

You know perfectly well I meant "any X38 boards".

It doesn't seem utterly unfeasible. I mean, the MSI board has two x16 slots and two x4 slots for a total of 40 lanes. That's more than enough to offer four x8 slots with some left over.

They'd have to be single-slot cards, but there's a suggestion that RV670 may be single-slot.

 

[nrb]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
X38 was designed for 45nm Penryn and Nehalem and will need those processors to better differentiate itself.

Penryn, maybe; but Nehalem? Nehalem will have an onboard memory controller. I would have thought it would require a new socket.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Its been so long I can't remember . But when AMD 64 was released how much faster was it than the P4C? I know it wasn't 20% Most the time it was only like 10% faster. I know back than Games it was faster But not a lot at High res.

The reviewers changed how they did reviews only after C2D was released. Which I always found puzzleing. I do of course understand that lcds with there higher res. changed things a bit. But still the reviews should be done at low res to show processor power.

You must be kidding, right?

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=2668

See how much more MHz P4 needs to come close to A64.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: nrb
Penryn, maybe; but Nehalem? Nehalem will have an onboard memory controller. I would have thought it would require a new socket.

Oops...I was under the impression Intel's IMC architecture was not scheduled to debut until 2009, while Nehalem was scheduled for mid-2008 release. My bad.

 

[asdftt123]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: asdftt123

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
What prices are we looking at?

The situation is very fluid at this point but it appears most of the early release boards will be DDR3 based, so expect prices in the $250~$300 range up front. Most of the manufacturers will also have DDR2 based boards for the $175~$250 market by late October. Eventually, a few of those DDR2 boards should drop down to the $150 range or under, much in the same way the 975X boards have been slotted over time. We fully expect capitalism at its best for the first 30 days, so seeing a first to market board around $350 will probably not surprise us.

So does that mean there will be no DDR2 versions upon the early-mid September release? Will we have to wait till late October to see any DDR2 versions? If so, that's a huge bummer. I wonder how many people will take the hit and spend $800+ on a kit of DDR3 + X38...? Probably nobody sane.

What kind of car you drive. The cheapest one available ? DDR3 is know differant. The X38 chipset is made and optimised for curtain DDR3 memory .
NO DDR2 memory will work with those optimization if I understand it correctly.

So calling a person insane because they buy the memory intended for this chipset is a little childish don't you think? Sure DDR3 is expensive if you buy the modules that are certified to work with its optimised memory. But as has already been pointed out the M/Bs using X38 chipsets in the performance arena are going to be expensive. I am pretty sure but not fully that when I recieve my dark star pc it will have the intel performance bad axe 3 m/b. I hope.

Personally, I see no reason to go DDR3 until at least Nehalem, according to Intel's launch path. The release of Nehalem is closer than we might think (less than a year), and by then, we'll not only have a completely new processor, but a new chipset, and cheaper DDR3 RAM. Seeing how X38 will NOT support anything after Penryn it will be essentially overrun by newer chipsets. Spending over $500 on a kit of DDR3 knowing that your chipset and processor will be obsolete in no more than a year is a crazy thought knowing that there WILL be DDR2 compatible boards. It's not like you're going to get a huge performance gain from going the DDR3 route anyway. As we've currently seen, only a mere 1-2%. Furthermore, chances are when Nehalem is actually released we'll not only have cheaper DDR3, but it may as well be much faster than todays modules.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: nrb

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: nrb
Do you think there will be any boards that support x8/x8/x8/x8 quad-Crossfire?

The upcoming AMD 790 supports 2x16 or 4x8 CrossFire configurations and Quad CrossFire does work with Phenom.

You know perfectly well I meant "any X38 boards".

It doesn't seem utterly unfeasible. I mean, the MSI board has two x16 slots and two x4 slots for a total of 40 lanes. That's more than enough to offer four x8 slots with some left over.

They'd have to be single-slot cards, but there's a suggestion that RV670 may be single-slot.

It is possible for Quad-CrossFire support on the X38 based on the amount of PCI-e lanes available and controller design, whether anyone will do it up front is a best guess at this time.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Its been so long I can't remember . But when AMD 64 was released how much faster was it than the P4C? I know it wasn't 20% Most the time it was only like 10% faster. I know back than Games it was faster But not a lot at High res.

The reviewers changed how they did reviews only after C2D was released. Which I always found puzzleing. I do of course understand that lcds with there higher res. changed things a bit. But still the reviews should be done at low res to show processor power.

You must be kidding, right?

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=2668

See how much more MHz P4 needs to come close to A64.

You must be Kidding . Reread my post . I was asking about AMD 64 when it first came out. You grab a link of an X2 . We all know X2 was better than P4 by a long shot. But AMD 64 lost a few benches to Intel P4 with HT. NO I wasn't kidding GO get a link of AMD64 single core VS P4C and lets take another walk done memory lane shall we. I clearly stated AMD 64. If you look at bench test with what I stated . P4C and AMD 64 were neck and neck. Add high res to gaming benchies and the whole thing gets Mucky to say the least.

Trying to justify hate of P4 netburst by covering up the facts is just silly.

 

[bh33]

So correct me if I'm wrong but the x38 chipset won't support Nehalem? If this is correct I don't see a ton of reasons why I would buy one of these motherboards at a premium price. Wouldn't the P35 be close to the performance of x38?

Noob

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: bh33
So correct me if I'm wrong but the x38 chipset won't support Nehalem? If this is correct I don't see a ton of reasons why I would buy one of these motherboards at a premium price. Wouldn't the P35 be close to the performance of x38?

Noob

I don't know if it will work with X38 or not I would think not.

Much depends on your up grade cycle. With Intels new Tick tock . Me and my wife are on differant cycles.

I will upgrade on the tock cycle while she is on the tick cycle. Even tho I have a core dual I haven't got much money invested in it. and I made it for the living room entretainment center so it should serve me well for years .

The point is its really not about us its the consumers that are targeted here. The more info that comes out about Penryn the more interesting it becomes . Like the news that Penryn is a ray tracing monster that recently came out. This is without SSE4 so it only gets better and better.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

P35 represents the best value between now and mid 08. High quality DDR3 should also remain very expensive well into 08. I doubt that the real-world performance between X38 and P35 would amount to more than a few %.

 

[bh33]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: bh33
So correct me if I'm wrong but the x38 chipset won't support Nehalem? If this is correct I don't see a ton of reasons why I would buy one of these motherboards at a premium price. Wouldn't the P35 be close to the performance of x38?

Noob

I don't know if it will work with X38 or not I would think not.

Much depends on your up grade cycle. With Intels new Tick tock . Me and my wife are on differant cycles.

I will upgrade on the tock cycle while she is on the tick cycle. Even tho I have a core dual I haven't got much money invested in it. and I made it for the living room entretainment center so it should serve me well for years .

The point is its really not about us its the consumers that are targeted here. The more info that comes out about Penryn the more interesting it becomes . Like the news that Penryn is a ray tracing monster that recently came out. This is without SSE4 so it only gets better and better.

Fair enough Nemesis I guess we will all have different needs and wants. I myself am looking to upgrade from my old P4 and bad AGP video card. Now even if I buy a P35 board I can still get one that supports Penryn. I'm trying to justify buying an x38 board but as it stands now I'm hearing very little performace increase and very expensive.

 

[GhandiInstinct]

Fair enough Nemesis I guess we will all have different needs and wants. I myself am looking to upgrade from my old P4 and bad AGP video card. Now even if I buy a P35 board I can still get one that supports Penryn. I'm trying to justify buying an x38 board but as it stands now I'm hearing very little performace increase and very expensive.

From what I've read on these boards, there are alot of people with P4 AGPs looking to upgrade this holiday season.

Unfortunately, with PCI-E 2.0, SSE4, SSD hard drives, and a bunch of other new hardware tech goodies, it's difficult to find the right time and product to upgrade at this moment in time.

Why would anyone release X38 with only DDR3 support when the majority have DDR2 and DDR2 out performs and is a helluva lot cheaper than DDR3.

Add to all this mess, the new G92 graphics cards from Nvidia with DirectX10.1 support. While 8800GTX's now still cost near $600.

It's so confusing.

I wish someone had answers for us.

Because I'm not going to get a potential X38 with DDR2 and then throw away the CPU when it's time to get penryn and then throw out X38 when Neh comes out.

Pffffft!!!! Help.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Abit IP35-E is good up to 500MHz FSB. Runs cool and quiet with a stable BIOS. Board is capable of running four sticks of RAM up to 564MHz. @ $70 AR (MWAVE), this is the undisputed king of value and performance.

 

[bh33]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct

Fair enough Nemesis I guess we will all have different needs and wants. I myself am looking to upgrade from my old P4 and bad AGP video card. Now even if I buy a P35 board I can still get one that supports Penryn. I'm trying to justify buying an x38 board but as it stands now I'm hearing very little performace increase and very expensive.

From what I've read on these boards, there are alot of people with P4 AGPs looking to upgrade this holiday season.

Unfortunately, with PCI-E 2.0, SSE4, SSD hard drives, and a bunch of other new hardware tech goodies, it's difficult to find the right time and product to upgrade at this moment in time.

Why would anyone release X38 with only DDR3 support when the majority have DDR2 and DDR2 out performs and is a helluva lot cheaper than DDR3.

Add to all this mess, the new G92 graphics cards from Nvidia with DirectX10.1 support. While 8800GTX's now still cost near $600.

It's so confusing.

I wish someone had answers for us.

Because I'm not going to get a potential X38 with DDR2 and then throw away the CPU when it's time to get penryn and then throw out X38 when Neh comes out.

Pffffft!!!! Help.

GhandiInstinct you're reading my mind I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for an upgrade. There is so much new technology coming out at the same timeish which is making it very difficult to pull the trigger. Og course no one wants to drop lots of money on a new PC and have it outdated in a month or two but at the same time most of these technologies that are coming out are very expensive and I'm not sure it's worth the wait.

The way it's looking for me now is I'll grab a p35 board which will support Penryn in case I want to upgrade down the road, put a E6750 or 6850, stick some inexpensive DDR2 in the mobo and grab an Nvidia 8800 card from EVGA in hopes that I can use their step up program to buy a new G92 card within 90 days of purchase.

 

[Gary Key]

Add to all this mess, the new G92 graphics cards from Nvidia with DirectX10.1 support. While 8800GTX's now still cost near $600.

Do not count on the G92 until sometime next year (probably early spring) if that helps the budget. You can expect the price slides on the GTX cards to occur over the holiday season based on current chip/memory prices to the manufacturers for Q4 production rates. There is no need for NVIDIA to release the follow-up until AMD is ready with the R700 series.