X570 motherboards

[UsandThem]

Whats going on with the x570 Taichi drawing 55 watts of power more than other x570 boards and +20C temps?

https://www.tomshardware.com/review...md-ryzen-3000-am4-atx-motherboard,6217-3.html

https://www.eteknix.com/asrock-x570-taichi-motherboard-review/6/

In the first article you linked to, it states this as the reason:

Finally, a test that really stands out! ASRock’s X570 Taichi consumed far more power at full load, and a quick search for the cause revealed that this board, and only this board, was running the 3700X at 1.31V and 4.1GHz under Prime95 small-FFTs. The other boards were running less than 1.2V, at 3.9 to 4.0 GHz in this test.

Most likely, it has to be a BIOS related issue that Asrock should fix with an update.

 

[lopri]

I share your disappointment. If you look at the MSI lineup, everything below the Ace is 4-layer.


Are you planning on running any PCIe 4.0 devices on your new system, by any chance? Perhaps you can serve the cause of science.

I do not know what kind of PCIe 4.0 devices are out there. Do Navi cards support PCIe 4.0 natively?

Looking at AT's preview, you really have to pony up at least $250 for a true high-end X570 board. (e.g. Two x16 slots with x8/x8 operation, 6+ layer PCB, high-quality VRM) What is nice to see is that most of these provide Intel NIC and multiple M.2 slots.

I was really lookin at the Gigabyte X570 AORUS Motherboard. does that plastic around the pci slots trap hot air and raise board temps?

It looks like they are trying to isolate exhaust from the chipset fan and intake for video cards. Hopefully it works.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I was really lookin at the Gigabyte X570 AORUS Motherboard. does that plastic around the pci slots trap hot air and raise board temps?

Which one? There are multiple Aorus boards (Extreme, Master, etc)

Whats going on with the x570 Taichi drawing 55 watts of power more than other x570 boards and +20C temps?

Probably the board UEFI being mangled by ASRock to overvolt/overclock in order to win reviews. Or it might be a mistake. Asus has been caught doing essentially the same thing.

I do not know what kind of PCIe 4.0 devices are out there.

Right now, the only consumer-level devices available that will show any measurable improvement on PCIe 4.0 are NVMe SSDs. There are a few. I am interested in seeing if those drives lose bandwidth or have connectivity problems on 4-layer boards.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Which one? There are multiple Aorus boards (Extreme, Master, etc)



Probably the board UEFI being mangled by ASRock to overvolt/overclock in order to win reviews. Or it might be a mistake. Asus has been caught doing essentially the same thing.



Right now, the only consumer-level devices available that will show any measurable improvement on PCIe 4.0 are NVMe SSDs. There are a few. I am interested in seeing if those drives lose bandwidth or have connectivity problems on 4-layer boards.

Can you explain the board layer thing in a simple manner if possible. The board layers confuse me.
I understand:
Obviously a board with more layers will likely be more rigid/strong
I think I understand that there is “stuff” inside the board that makes other “stuff” work but why is a 4 layer board worse than a 6 layer board for pcie “stuff”?
How does the amount of copper feed into the board layers? I am assuming the copper is for power and more copper means more power but is that correct?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Can you explain the board layer thing in a simple manner if possible. The board layers confuse me.
I understand:
Obviously a board with more layers will likely be more rigid/strong
I think I understand that there is “stuff” inside the board that makes other “stuff” work but why is a 4 layer board worse than a 6 layer board for pcie “stuff”?
How does the amount of copper feed into the board layers? I am assuming the copper is for power and more copper means more power but is that correct?

Maybe this can help better than anything I say:

https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/multilayer-PCB-benefits-and-applications.html

of note:

• Enhanced Design Functionality: Overall, multilayer PCBs are capable of being more than the average single layer PCB. With more incorporation of controlled impedance features, greater EMI shielding and overall improved design quality, multilayer PCBs can accomplish more despite their smaller size and lesser weight.

PCIe 3.0 allows signal routing in a single layer (I think). PCIe 4.0 does not allow such a routing strategy. EMI/crosstalk and trace length are both possible problems that could prevent effective routing of PCIe 4.0 signals within a single layer. The more layers you have, the more options you have in complying with PCI-SIG's requirements for PCIe 4.0 .

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Maybe this can help better than anything I say:

https://www.pcbcart.com/article/content/multilayer-PCB-benefits-and-applications.html

of note:



PCIe 3.0 allows signal routing in a single layer (I think). PCIe 4.0 does not allow such a routing strategy. EMI/crosstalk and trace length are both possible problems that could prevent effective routing of PCIe 4.0 signals within a single layer. The more layers you have, the more options you have in complying with PCI-SIG's requirements for PCIe 4.0 .

Ah so it’s like insulation in you house but for magnetic inference. More layers equal more shielding.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Pretty much. It can also help you shorten trace lengths.

There have been motherboards in the past with up to 12 layers that cost less (in 2019 dollars) than the $700 x570 monstrosities on the market today. I see no reason why anyone stopped at 8 layers. I also see no reason why the low-end x570 boards have to be 4-layers. Talk about being cheap.

 

[JimKiler]

Can anyone speak to the power delivery table on the anand site showing all the current X570 boards. I have no idea what i am looking for here, what should be avoided and what is the coveted power delivery system?

this page: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14161/the-amd-x570-motherboard-overview/2

specifically for my i do not overclock, but i would use the PBO and AOC software AMD provides. I have only bought Asus and Gigabyte boards so far but don't need wifi, just a good solid board with a little RGB.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@JimKiler

Depends on how much you are willing to pay, and what you expect.

PBO = overclocking. No way around it. Right now PBO may or may not be working properly on AMD boards. It's designed to overcome current/power limits to let chips boost further, and apparently it doesn't do much (yet) thanks to buggy board UEFI. Updates may change that behavior in the future.

Beyond that, the power delivery on every x570 should be enough for every chip on up to the 3900x. It doesn't look like Matisse can draw enough power to seriously stress those VRMs thanks to temperature-based clockspeed restrictions. The only major difference you will see is that the top two Gigabyte boards (Aorus Extreme and Master) have a power delivery setup that is best-of-breed in terms of its ability to deliver power with high stability and low ripple and low vdroop. That's only going to matter if you are OCD about getting the highest clocks possible (and only if you go to extraordinary trouble to cool your CPU so it can clock there).

Otherwise it is just not going to matter.

 

[JimKiler]

@JimKiler

Depends on how much you are willing to pay, and what you expect.

PBO = overclocking. No way around it. Right now PBO may or may not be working properly on AMD boards. It's designed to overcome current/power limits to let chips boost further, and apparently it doesn't do much (yet) thanks to buggy board UEFI. Updates may change that behavior in the future.

Beyond that, the power delivery on every x570 should be enough for every chip on up to the 3900x. It doesn't look like Matisse can draw enough power to seriously stress those VRMs thanks to temperature-based clockspeed restrictions. The only major difference you will see is that the top two Gigabyte boards (Aorus Extreme and Master) have a power delivery setup that is best-of-breed in terms of its ability to deliver power with high stability and low ripple and low vdroop. That's only going to matter if you are OCD about getting the highest clocks possible (and only if you go to extraordinary trouble to cool your CPU so it can clock there).

Otherwise it is just not going to matter.

i meant i do not overclock except if it is MBO on intel or PBO + AOC for AMD and XMP profiles on memory. But it sounds like any X570 board in my price range of under $300 will suffice.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

i meant i do not overclock except if it is MBO on intel or PBO + AOC for AMD and XMP profiles on memory. But it sounds like any X570 board in my price range of under $300 will suffice.

@VirtualLarry want step in and spread some B450 love

 

[VirtualLarry]

@VirtualLarry want step in and spread some B450 love

^ looks at title of thread. Nope. That would be OT.

But my Gigabyte B450 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX does accept 3rd-Gen Ryzen CPUs, with F40 BIOS, and does seem to indicate some level of PCI-E 4.0 support. (Though, may be "AS-IS" support, like those early Intel boards that supported PCI-E 3.0 speed, with an optional BIOS switch, even though they weren't "officially supported" for PCI-E 3.0 on ARK.)

Edit: And it also "supports" PBO (at least, it's a BIOS option to enable). But it doesn't seem to help clocks much, other than it pushes temps even higher, on stock coolers.

 

[beginner99]

Hi guys, I'm begin overwhelmed here with all the options and not really get the thing with the phases and what effects they really have. Given all the power features in Ryzen3000-series i plan on getting a 3900x but not OC it, enable PBO2 and be done with it. So how many phases an such would I really need?

I don't want to cheap out on RAM. So something in the 3200-3733 Range. Is that affected by the board?

I don't need Wifi or 2.5g Ethernet (or 2 ports). Have 2 ports now, never used the second one, all switches are 1 gbit.

What I do need is 1 m2. port and many sata ports. Currently I have 6 sata drives in operation. I could see me ditching 2-3 (old intel ssd and optical drive and maybe one of the hdds). So the boards with 4 sata ports are maybe on the low side.

There is a bundle with the ROG STRIX-E (or F) (+3900x + pcie4 ssd) that would save me $150. The E and F are almost same price and given the differences of $30 I think I would take the better one.
MSI doesn't seem to have anything in the $350 range in the shop I use. My current one is MSI and never had any issues. The gaming edge/pro seem to fit my needs well and are much cheaper than the asus boards but no bundle.

Any board recommendations?

 

[VirtualLarry]

When they were first announced, with features and specs, I had my sights set on a ROG STRIX -E X570 board, but then after I found out my existing B450 AORUS PRO WIFI would work with a 3600 as a drop-in, I did that instead. (Mostly, because I wanted to experience Ryzen 3rd-Gen CPU goodness, but couldn't also afford an X570 at this point.)

Works well so far, runs HOT running PrimeGrid tasks, which is apparently not unusual. I did lose the two SoC-driven SATA ports on the board. Whether that's because I damaged something during the upgrade (checked the SMT caps on the back of the CPU section, they appear to be intact), or just due to some immaturity of firmware, or maybe the I/O die on the 3rd-Gen CPUs doesn't support all of the SoC features of the Zeppelin dies, I don't know. It's slightly annoying, to be limited to only four SATA ports.

SATA OS SSD, SATA HDD, SATA optical, that's three out of the four (B450 chipset SATA ports).

Then I had a pair of 512GB SATA SSDs on the two SoC SATA ports, for multi-boot goodness.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hi guys, I'm begin overwhelmed here with all the options and not really get the thing with the phases and what effects they really have. Given all the power features in Ryzen3000-series i plan on getting a 3900x but not OC it, enable PBO2 and be done with it. So how many phases an such would I really need?

Basically, 8. Even if you get the worst possible 8-phase primary (4+1 w/ doubler, 40a @ 25C) you are still looking at . . . I dunno, 240a tops while the VRMs are absolutely cooking themselves. I think there is one 6-phase x570 board. I was really worried about higher-clocked 3900x chips, but it looks like it's so darn hard to get these things above 4.4 GHz that it's a rare chip that will actually get to the clockspeeds and voltages necessary to bring the 200-250a pain.

I don't want to cheap out on RAM. So something in the 3200-3733 Range. Is that affected by the board?

Proooobably not. If that's all you want out of your RAM, I think darn near every x570 board will get you there.

I don't need Wifi or 2.5g Ethernet (or 2 ports). Have 2 ports now, never used the second one, all switches are 1 gbit.

I'm pretty sure every x570 board has at least a 1Gbps NIC integrated. Some of them may be Realtek based, if that is a problem for you. Most of the best ones feature at least one Intel NIC.

What I do need is 1 m2. port and many sata ports. Currently I have 6 sata drives in operation. I could see me ditching 2-3 (old intel ssd and optical drive and maybe one of the hdds). So the boards with 4 sata ports are maybe on the low side.

Stick to the ATX boards then.

Any board recommendations?

Pick a board with the ports you need and make sure it is 6-layer in case you are looking to actually use PCIe 4.0 features (PCI3 4.0 NVMe SSD namely). Maybe it's no big deal, but enough semi-credible sources have mentioned that PCI-SIG encourages/requires 6-layer (or better) PCBs for signal integrity and proper routing that I'm encouraging people to err on the safe side. I really don't know why there are so many 4-layer x570 boards out there. Talk about skimping.

Gigabyte has been rather transparent about their x570 lineup's PCB layers. Aorus Pro Ultra looks like the cheapest one they have that is 6-layer. No idea on ASRock or Asus. MSI's cheapest 6-layer board is the Meg ACE. If you can find one (good luck), the Biostar board is also 6-layer and may be pretty cheap. I have doubts about their UEFI. And that's saying something, considering that Gigabyte is in this conversation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I really don't know why there are so many 4-layer x570 boards out there. Talk about skimping.

Considering the considerable price-premium for an X570 board, I agree, it seems a shame that any of them (save for perhaps some below-$100 models, IF they existed) are 4-layer.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The Taichi has been by go-to board for Z370 and X370, but I'm a little concerned with the X570 Taichi's power draw. Maybe it will be resolved with a BIOS update, but I have a 3900X on the way and am trying to decide if I should just use my X370 Taichi or upgrade to a new X570 board. Thoughts? Is PCI-E 4.0 the only real upgrade with X570? Yeah, I know many come with 802.11ax wifi and 2.5 Gb ethernet, but the wi-fi isn't important to me and as far as ethernet goes, I really was hoping most would have 10 Gb built-in but I think only the high-end Gigabyte X570 currently has 10 Gb - correct?

If I reuse the X370 Taichi, the 3900X would go into the small, compact Riotoro CR1080 (system specs in sig) and use either the included HSF or the Noctua in my sig. A little concerned that it may have some heat issues in that case as it does get warm despite having two 120 mm intakes and a 92 or 80 mm exhaust on the back (and another on top as well).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Is PCI-E 4.0 the only real upgrade with X570?

Right now, 300 and 400-series UEFI support for Matisse is really spotty. You won't see proper operation on those chipsets until UEFI featuring AGESA 1.0.0.3A or AB is available (not sure what is the difference between the two, if any). For example, X370 Taichi is stuck on 1.0.0.1 for right now, which is a pre-release UEFI that um . . . well let's just say it's probably not great. DDR4-2666 might be max memclock? Or so?

I think only the high-end Gigabyte X570 currently has 10 Gb - correct?

Correct, the $700 Aorus Extreme is the only x570 with 10Gb NIC built-in.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Right now, 300 and 400-series UEFI support for Matisse is really spotty. You won't see proper operation on those chipsets until UEFI featuring AGESA 1.0.0.3A or AB is available (not sure what is the difference between the two, if any). For example, X370 Taichi is stuck on 1.0.0.1 for right now, which is a pre-release UEFI that um . . . well let's just say it's probably not great. DDR4-2666 might be max memclock? Or so?

Correct, the $700 Aorus Extreme is the only x570 with 10Gb NIC built-in.

Thanks. Yeah, it looks like I should just bite the bullet and get an X570.

 

[JimKiler]

The Taichi has been by go-to board for Z370 and X370, but I'm a little concerned with the X570 Taichi's power draw. Maybe it will be resolved with a BIOS update, but I have a 3900X on the way and am trying to decide if I should just use my X370 Taichi or upgrade to a new X570 board. Thoughts? Is PCI-E 4.0 the only real upgrade with X570? Yeah, I know many come with 802.11ax wifi and 2.5 Gb ethernet, but the wi-fi isn't important to me and as far as ethernet goes, I really was hoping most would have 10 Gb built-in but I think only the high-end Gigabyte X570 currently has 10 Gb - correct?

If I reuse the X370 Taichi, the 3900X would go into the small, compact Riotoro CR1080 (system specs in sig) and use either the included HSF or the Noctua in my sig. A little concerned that it may have some heat issues in that case as it does get warm despite having two 120 mm intakes and a 92 or 80 mm exhaust on the back (and another on top as well).

What good is 2.5GbE when switches and routers are not out yet for consumers?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Thanks. Yeah, it looks like I should just bite the bullet and get an X570.

I hate to say it, but you may be right. OEMs have no incentive to prioritize products that aren't making them any more money (directly). They don't value good will as much.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What good is 2.5GbE when switches and routers are not out yet for consumers?

Exactly. I would've thought that almost all $300+ boards (and maybe even $250+ boards) would've had the 10 Gb chipset on them. I could definitely use 10 Gb but 2.5 Gb sounds like some sort of weird in-between network that won't ever see widespread adoption.

 

[beginner99]

Exactly. I would've thought that almost all $300+ boards (and maybe even $250+ boards) would've had the 10 Gb chipset on them. I could definitely use 10 Gb but 2.5 Gb sounds like some sort of weird in-between network that won't ever see widespread adoption.

If it's a lot cheaper than 5 or 10Gb, then it has potential IMHO because the other two are overkill. 1Gb already can saturate a hdd if you are not purely sequential or HDD is near full. At 2.5Gb you can saturate any HDD and I doubt many people will copy around large files over network from ssd to ssd. If you don't do video editing or such 1 Gb is enough mostly because the places you would actually want to have high bandwidth to (like for cloud backups) are limited by terrible upload speeds and data caps.

 

[beginner99]

Pick a board with the ports you need and make sure it is 6-layer in case you are looking to actually use PCIe 4.0 features (PCI3 4.0 NVMe SSD namely). Maybe it's no big deal, but enough semi-credible sources have mentioned that PCI-SIG encourages/requires 6-layer (or better) PCBs for signal integrity and proper routing that I'm encouraging people to err on the safe side. I really don't know why there are so many 4-layer x570 boards out there. Talk about skimping.

Where do I find that info? I didn't find number of pcb layers even on the boards web sites.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Where do I find that info? I didn't find number of pcb layers even on the boards web sites.

I haven't got a good source for data on ASRock or Asus PCB layers. Your best bet for those motherboards is to ask on their respective forums and/or reddit. MSI and Gigabyte (and Biostar) published/leaked info on their board specs before launch, so you can read about them here:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards.html

Note that the thread maintainer is updating with new info wherever possible. He has info on a few Asus boards now.