X570 motherboards

[DrMrLordX]

@escobarr

The top-end Asus board is the Crosshair VIII Formula. Is it their best? I don't know. Hero looks similar enough that I might rather have it instead.

@phillyman36

Can you give us a breakdown of that video? Why do they say that board is the first "real" 14-phase VRM? Asus and MSI have 14-phase boards as well.

edit: okay, now I understand why that's the first "real" 14-phase VRM. Lots of information in an OCN thread:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards.html

and read more starting here:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards-328.html

or

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards-82.html#post27981112 (read everything after that post)

Long story short, the Gigabyte board has 16-phase PWM to go with their 14+2 config (others have 8-phase PWM). 70a per phase is also complete overkill. Lots of other good info in there . . . not all the 12+2 configs are the same. Watch out for 4-layer motherboards, motherboards with inferior VRM components, and suchlike. That being said, as a worst-case, you might wind up with a 12+2 using components that limit you to 40a per phase on a 4-layer board, and that won't be so bad unless you have to pay over $300 for it.

I also see that the thread maintainer has listed the top Asus boards as 12+4, but I think they're 14+2 instead.

 

[phillyman36]

Brief look at some of MSI line up

I honestly don't know a lot about power phases/vrms but on the Asus link I posted
Crosshair VIII Hero is 14+2
Strix-E is 12+4 (8-mm copper heatpipes distribute thermal energy across the VRM heatsinks to improve dissipation.)
Strix-F is 12+2 (8-mm copper heatpipes distribute thermal energy across the VRM heatsinks to improve dissipation.)
Not sure the major differences and how each effects a 3900x

 

[DrMrLordX]

@phillyman36

After reading the OCN posts, my main takeaway is that it's going to be hard for Asus to beat the X570 Aorus Master from Gigabyte on features/power delivery. Asus might give us better microcode support. In fact, that would be the #1 reason to buy an Asus board at all.

For answers about the VRM/power delivery:

1). Look how many board layers there are. Currently, the word on the street is you want at least a 6-layer board if you care about RAM OC. There are going to be a lot of 4-layer boards.
2). Not all VRMs are created equally. Look at the current capabilities per phase (40a is usually the worst you're going to see; 70a is the best on X570). 40a should be okay for a 3900x unless you are bleeding edge. Also remember that most of these ratings apply to the VRM components @ 25C which is never where they will operate in the real world. At higher temps, current capabilities will drop by 20% or more (think 80C-100C or higher). So two boards with 12+2 using 40a VRMs won't necessarily behave the same if there is poor cooling for said VRMs on one of the boards.
3). Look for doublers. Doublers increase voltage latency when moving from idle to load or vice-versa, which can increase the need for LLC (to prevent crashing from vdroop). Using LLC increases your change for damage/wear to the CPU from voltage spikes, and higher vdroop means potentially higher spikes (making doublers bad there too). Some manufacturers are using "twinned" or "teamed" VRM configurations instead of doublers for less vdroop and lower voltage spikes. The top-end Gigabyte board doesn't bother using either one, getting the best frequency switching latency of any X570 board out there. Care to pay $600 for that?

 

[phillyman36]

I don't think i will ever pay $600 lol. I don't overclock. I will set XMP for the memory but thats usually it for me. Question is do i stick with Asus or do i give Gigabyte a try. Do we know when the reviews will be up/(Nda)

 

[DrMrLordX]

NDAs on boards are up to the OEMs, but on the CPUs? We might not have them dropped until July 7th (or July 1st when preorders allegedly start).

If all you are doing is using XMP 2.0 I would just look for a 6-layer board with at least a 12+2 configuration. After that point it's a matter of features. For example, Asus isn't shipping anything with a 10GB NIC . . . not even the Formula. If you want one, you can't pick Asus. Asus may have some of the best UEFI features out of the gate and in the long term, though. If Gigabyte doesn't up their game on that angle, people who buy their products for the hardware may be disappointed anyway.

 

[phillyman36]

NDAs on boards are up to the OEMs, but on the CPUs? We might not have them dropped until July 7th (or July 1st when preorders allegedly start).

If all you are doing is using XMP 2.0 I would just look for a 6-layer board with at least a 12+2 configuration. After that point it's a matter of features. For example, Asus isn't shipping anything with a 10GB NIC . . . not even the Formula. If you want one, you can't pick Asus. Asus may have some of the best UEFI features out of the gate and in the long term, though. If Gigabyte doesn't up their game on that angle, people who buy their products for the hardware may be disappointed anyway.

Thanks for the tip. Hopefully the Asus boards are at least 6 layers for the Hero and Strix.

 

[phillyman36]

Asus has some of their boards up on the website

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VIII-HERO-WI-FI/overview/
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-Crosshair-VIII-Formula/
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-Strix-X570-E-Gaming/

 

[DrMrLordX]

Thanks for the tip. Hopefully the Asus boards are at least 6 layers for the Hero and Strix.

I don't have a lot of good data on how many layers there are on the Asus lineup yet. It's a safe bet that the Hero is at least 6 layers.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Slightly off topic

This is the problem with being the value leader for so long, people start to expect value.
Personally I love how this guys says he “wouldn’t touch AMD with a 10 foot pole for the last decade” but now he’s pissed X570 boards are going to be expensive.
He was perfectly fine paying extra for an intel board, why is he pissed at paying a similar amount for an AMD board that will likely perform better?
He hasn’t bought a cheap AMD board in a decade. He had the choice and chose a more expensive intel board.

We can see the same thing in the CPU Ryzen speculation thread, people complaining they’ll need a new board to replace the a320 super duper mega value board.
As a guy who has been involved with various sales or sales projects I find it amazing that time & time again catering to the value segment leads to a bunch of cheap mofo’s complaining about price increases.
Would I prefer the X570 to be priced cheaply like pretty much every previous AMD board but I’d much rather AMD make something I am going to buy.

Edit: he had a complete math fail too, again from previous work experience math fails like this are to be expected.
not exact quote but close: “we were told AMD motherboards will cost 30% more due to the extra stuff, that means a $200-$300 price increase”

No it doesn’t from memory the mid range X470 boards were $160ish 1.30 x 160 = $208 NOT $360.00

 

[DrMrLordX]

Honestly I have no problem paying $400 or less for an X570 board. I might go higher if there's a feature on one of those boards I really want that I can't get elsewhere. Total platform cost (CPU, mobo, RAM) for an elite Matisse system is still going to be lower than Intel HEDT which is what AMD is partially threatening with the 3900x. If I had a 3800x, I could go for cheaper boards like the Asus Impact and still get pretty good overall performance from my chip. No idea what the Impact will cost, mind you, but it may be one of the best boards out there for 3700x and 3800x owners. If you can handle the DTX form factor, that is.

That ASRock board is a limited-edition halo product for e-peen value. If they were charging maybe $800 for it, it might be worth it for people that want a day-one monoblock. But $1k? Nahhh too silly. It's also not representative of the rest of the X570 market.

edit: actually, the Impact is sexy enough that maybe 3900x owners should consider it too. It does have 70a VRMs (compare this to some 12+2 configs w/ 40a VRMs; the Impact will overall have a higher current limit). Would need to see more info on the board before recommending it with confidence.

 

[dsplover]

Whatever board I get I’m stripping the fan off of the X570 Chip and putting a big spaced Copper HS on it.
I’m different, I like loud ass 12k fans pushing air in between the DIMMs, and down the fins of my Heat Sinks.
These barrels are loud and very good.

If no X570 with DIMMs perpendicular to the faceplate, ASRock has a great X470 Workstation board.

 

[Ajay]

Whatever board I get I’m stripping the fan off of the X570 Chip and putting a big spaced Copper HS on it.
I’m different, I like loud ass 12k fans pushing air in between the DIMMs, and down the fins of my Heat Sinks.
These barrels are loud and very good.

If no X570 with DIMMs perpendicular to the faceplate, ASRock has a great X470 Workstation board.

OMG, hope you have a closet for that - or one of those small rack noise isolators. I’ve spent hours on end in server rooms doing installs, hardware upgrades and (my personal favorite) a whole day adding new network blades, punching new patch panels and rewiring 4 network racks. The noise from all the 60mm fans in the servers and 40 mm fans in the raid towers was something special. Err, but I digress...

 

[phreakwarz]

This reminds me of a story. A car dealership offered new cars for $3000. When people went to the dealership to buy that car, the salesman replied, would you like a set of tires for it? The salesman said politely they're only $12000.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This reminds me of a story. A car dealership offered new cars for $3000. When people went to the dealership to buy that car, the salesman replied, would you like a set of tires for it? The salesman said politely they're only $12000.

Huh?

That reference doesn’t make sense.

 

[phreakwarz]

Huh?

That reference doesn’t make sense.

RYZEN cpus $329, motherboard $?.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

RYZEN cpus $329, motherboard $?.

Then buy the more expensive intel equivalent
But I sort of get the point

 

[EXCellR8]

$250 range for mid-market board isn't bad... I mean if I am forced to upgrade due to CPU support restrictions then I could potentially deal with that. It gets quite a bit harder over $300 imho though, because these things are superseded so quickly.

None of these X570 boards really cater to my black/red AMD case scheme though and that's sort of bumming me out. Everything is murdered out black or black & silver with RGB lol

 

[DrMrLordX]

Fortunately, everything from the 3900x on down should run fine on decent X470 boards. You don't have to get X570 unless you really want PCIe 4.0 and elite memory OC. Personally I would not endorse anything but C7H and X470 Taichi for 3900x, but if you go 6c-8c Mattisse then you have more options.

@EXCellR8

MSI didn't come through with the red/black color scheme this time.

 

[DrMrLordX]

delete oops.

 

[EXCellR8]

Yea that's alright, after all of the recent announcements I honestly don't have a plan now. I mean I'd like to have PCIe 4.0 but don't plan on grabbing a Radeon 5700 and don't need it for storage bandwidth.

Most likely just going to drop in whatever CPU I can, pending reviews and BIOS update, while keeping my board and RAM... or do nothing and see where the market goes next. That's always more cost-effective lol

 

[dsplover]

I like them loud, I know they’re working then. I use these PCs for live performance so their noise level is quiet compared to the stage volume.

When I have them at home or in pre production I set them to silent in the BIOS.
But even then I’m using custom silicon molds and can’t even hear my wife......aww shucks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It looks like the max recommended memory speed before switching to 1/2 IF speed ratio is DDR4-3733. Interesting. They didn't really increase max IF speed by all that much.

Unless you really need uber memory bandwidth, it may be that X470 boards that cap out at DDR4-4000 will get you to your best mem OC anyway.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It looks like the max recommended memory speed before switching to 1/2 IF speed ratio is DDR4-3733. Interesting. They didn't really increase max IF speed by all that much.

Unless you really need uber memory bandwidth, it may be that X470 boards that cap out at DDR4-4000 will get you to your best mem OC anyway.

There is a slide on this basically 3733 was the highest speed with lowest latency. I think it was DDR4 3733 cas 16 was labeled as best budget performance.

 

[Ajay]

From the slide in Ian's write up - It looks like the recommended 3600 CL 16 would be the best choice for most. 16GB of Corsair for < $140 US on Newegg.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but:

https://www.techpowerup.com/256443/...-motherboard-price-list-paints-a-horror-story

Looks like Asus is going to want a lot for their boards. $699 for C8 Formula? Why would I get that over the $599 Aorus Xtreme? Also pricing the C8H higher than the Aorus Master is a bit confusing. The Master has a better VRM config.