X570 motherboards

[Mikita]

Which is potentially the most bad-ass X570 mobo so far? Asrock Aqua? Asus Formula? MSI Godlike? Aorus Xtreme? I mean which one will give the 3900x the most potential headroom for PBO / Auto or even manual overclock?

 

[beginner99]

I haven't got a good source for data on ASRock or Asus PCB layers. Your best bet for those motherboards is to ask on their respective forums and/or reddit. MSI and Gigabyte (and Biostar) published/leaked info on their board specs before launch, so you can read about them here:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards.html

Note that the thread maintainer is updating with new info wherever possible. He has info on a few Asus boards now.

Thanks!

So all the mid-range MSI boards only have a 4-layer PCB so one would have to splurge to get a MEG Ace which then has only 4 sata ports. Well my MSI board served me well but I guess with that line-up it's not for me.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Which is potentially the most bad-ass X570 mobo so far? Asrock Aqua? Asus Formula? MSI Godlike? Aorus Xtreme? I mean which one will give the 3900x the most potential headroom for PBO / Auto or even manual overclock?

In my opinion, Aorus Xtreme. 10Gb NIC, server-class VRM config, no chipset fan.

Thanks!

So all the mid-range MSI boards only have a 4-layer PCB so one would have to splurge to get a MEG Ace which then has only 4 sata ports. Well my MSI board served me well but I guess with that line-up it's not for me.

I hate bagging on them too hard. Those 4-layer boards might be okay anyway, and MSI is currently holding a lot of mem OC records at least for x470. They aren't all bad. Their VRMs are overall improved from X370 and X470 (where many of their boards were terrible). But still, having to pay for a MEG Ace just to get into a 6-layer board is goofy. At that price point, I would rather have the Aorus Master instead (which is what I bought).

 

[Mikita]

In my opinion, Aorus Xtreme. 10Gb NIC, server-class VRM config, no chipset fan.

No chipset fan is, of course, a plus from me. Regarding the VRM config - is it better since no use of doublers like MSI Godlike, etc? And the common concern regarding all Gigabyte AM4 boards, RAM OC and BIOS, - did they fix the messy BIOS and RAM overclocking on Ryzen?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Regarding the VRM config - is it better since no use of doublers like MSI Godlike, etc?

Yup. Both the Xtreme and Master have no doublers or "twinned" phases.

And the common concern regarding all Gigabyte AM4 boards, RAM OC and BIOS, - did they fix the messy BIOS and RAM overclocking on Ryzen?

Aorus Master UEFI overview:

I haven't found a decent mem OC review of the Master yet.

 

[Mikita]

Yup. Both the Xtreme and Master have no doublers or "twinned" phases.

And what about Asus Formula? Does it have doublers or twinned phases?

Aorus Master UEFI overview:


I haven't found a decent mem OC review of the Master yet.

Thanks! Will take a look. Regarding RAM OC - generally Gigabyte had somewhat worse RAM OC capability compared to MSI and ASUS, but it was the case for Summit and Pinnacle Ridges. Maybe they've improved on these grounds with Matisse.

So far, 3900X + Aorus Xtreme looks like a dream build for me. Just need to check those RAM OC questions and how do 3900X steppings compare to each other in PBO / Auto / manual OC capability.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Exactly. I would've thought that almost all $300+ boards (and maybe even $250+ boards) would've had the 10 Gb chipset on them. I could definitely use 10 Gb but 2.5 Gb sounds like some sort of weird in-between network that won't ever see widespread adoption.

Quite the opposite. RealTek makes a cheap 2.5GbE-T chipset, for USB3.x, PCI-E 3.0 x1 (*), and Aquantia makes a 5GbE chipset for USB3.x and PCI-E x1, as well as a 10GbE-T chipset for PCI-E x4.

2.5GbE will be the "new" standard, pushing widespread adoption of 10GbE-T off for another 3 years, or more, probably.

Primarily because of cost, and the perception that 10GbE-T is "enterprise" (nevermind that they've gone to 40GbE and 100GbE), and also because you can do 2.5GbE-T and even 5GbE-T over Cat5e cable, that most people already have in their homes.

Plus, routers with 802.11ax, need 2.5GbE-T hard-wired for 2400Mbit/sec bandwidth over the wifi, etc., so that 2.5GbE-T is going to be a standard because of wifi that is faster than 1GbE-T wired equivalent.

(*) Syba / I/O Crest 2.5GbE-T capable PCI-E x1 cards (with LP brackets too), are available on Amazon and Ebay, for roughly $30 (+tax/ship?), so don't consider a mobo with 2.5GbE-T onboard, to be more than a $30 premium on the price. In most cases, assuming that you'll have an x1 slot free after your GPUs and whatnot are installed, and don't interfere with the x4 M.2 NVMe wiring too much, then you can always slap in a card, as "messy" as that may seem for aesthetics.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Quite the opposite. RealTek makes a cheap 2.5GbE-T chipset, for USB3.x, PCI-E 3.0 x1 (*), and Aquantia makes a 5GbE chipset for USB3.x and PCI-E x1, as well as a 10GbE-T chipset for PCI-E x4.

2.5GbE will be the "new" standard, pushing widespread adoption of 10GbE-T off for another 3 years, or more, probably.

Primarily because of cost, and the perception that 10GbE-T is "enterprise" (nevermind that they've gone to 40GbE and 100GbE), and also because you can do 2.5GbE-T and even 5GbE-T over Cat5e cable, that most people already have in their homes.

Plus, routers with 802.11ax, need 2.5GbE-T hard-wired for 2400Mbit/sec bandwidth over the wifi, etc., so that 2.5GbE-T is going to be a standard because of wifi that is faster than 1GbE-T wired equivalent.

(*) Syba / I/O Crest 2.5GbE-T capable PCI-E x1 cards (with LP brackets too), are available on Amazon and Ebay, for roughly $30 (+tax/ship?), so don't consider a mobo with 2.5GbE-T onboard, to be more than a $30 premium on the price. In most cases, assuming that you'll have an x1 slot free after your GPUs and whatnot are installed, and don't interfere with the x4 M.2 NVMe wiring too much, then you can always slap in a card, as "messy" as that may seem for aesthetics.

Well for me, 2.5 is irrelevant - I can't see myself ever picking one board over another if 2.5 Gb is the sole differentiating factor and costs even $20 more. Same with wifi AX. However, a board with 10 Gb is definitely a selling point for me if we're talking a $50-70 premium. I need 10 Gb or faster for some of my network and I really don't want to have to act like it's 2002 and add individual NICs.

 

[DrMrLordX]

And what about Asus Formula? Does it have doublers or twinned phases?

Asus has twinned phases. Still better than doublers for almost everything. Worse than having "true" phases.

Thanks! Will take a look. Regarding RAM OC - generally Gigabyte had somewhat worse RAM OC capability compared to MSI and ASUS, but it was the case for Summit and Pinnacle Ridges. Maybe they've improved on these grounds with Matisse.

Near as I can tell, everyone - including even Biostar - hits DDR4-4000 easily on x570. The sweet spot is somewhere around DDR4-3733 for Matisse since you still get to use 1:1 IF ratio (might be able to go higher, but I haven't seen much on that yet). Trying to get DDR4-4600+ seems pointless since you have to use the 1:2 IF ratio (1/4 DRAM speed) which is kinda lame. I was hoping for higher IF speeds this time around.

 

[GhostPirateLeChuck]

Yup. Both the Xtreme and Master have no doublers or "twinned" phases.



Aorus Master UEFI overview:

I haven't found a decent mem OC review of the Master yet.

Thanks for the video!

It didn't clear up everything, since the manual for the Master isn't the clearest in the world (what the crap is "above 4G decoding", and how does it relate to gfx cards?)

I'm still puzzled why they're so proud of their 3DMark01 cheat er.... "enhancement", that they made it a feature you could toggle on/off.

 

[Mikita]

The sweet spot is somewhere around DDR4-3733 for Matisse since you still get to use 1:1 IF ratio (might be able to go higher, but I haven't seen much on that yet). Trying to get DDR4-4600+ seems pointless since you have to use the 1:2 IF ratio (1/4 DRAM speed) which is kinda lame.

Yeah - I've heard about this 1:1 / 1:2 ratio issue. To me also seems like the best algorithm is to get 3733 frequency and then focus on timings and sub-timings. However, not sure what frequency/timings ratio will be best, i.e. 3600 with slightly tighter timings or 3733 (3800? or there in no such for Ryzen) with slightly looser timings. I've seen polar opinions on this.

I was hoping for higher IF speeds this time around.

BTW - haven't they completely revamped this case when IF was so damn dependent on RAM speed? Seems like the huge cache (64Mb in case of 3900X) gets the work done.

 

[DrMrLordX]

BTW - haven't they completely revamped this case when IF was so damn dependent on RAM speed? Seems like the huge cache (64Mb in case of 3900X) gets the work done.

The cache helps. IF speed was more of an issue for intercore communications. However, AMD has also figured out how to at least keep intercore latency uniform, so the weird issues people had with older chips (notably 2900WX) won't recur on 3900x or 3950x.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Anyone considering the Asus X570 workstation board?

 

[realibrad]

Buildzoid quick motherboard review. Goes over x470 and x570. Even quickly refers to 450.

 

[beginner99]

Buildzoid quick motherboard review. Goes over x470 and x570. Even quickly refers to 450.

If not such a fan of this guy. He leaves out important technical aspects over such he cares about. He completely ignores pcie slots and usb ports which cheaper boards generally have much less.

I agree with him that all manufacturers manage to somehow screw up. The mb I want simply doesn't exist. The asus prime-pro would fit well (pretty bare-bones) but it's kind of expensive for what it offers and lacks bios flashback or dual bios. Cheaper boards lack pcie/io and/or only have a 4-layer pcb (is it really an issue?). More expensive ones come with faster lan and faster wifi. (why do I need both? why is wifi even integrated on a desktop?)

 

[realibrad]

If not such a fan of this guy. He leaves out important technical aspects over such he cares about. He completely ignores pcie slots and usb ports which cheaper boards generally have much less.

I agree with him that all manufacturers manage to somehow screw up. The mb I want simply doesn't exist. The asus prime-pro would fit well (pretty bare-bones) but it's kind of expensive for what it offers and lacks bios flashback or dual bios. Cheaper boards lack pcie/io and/or only have a 4-layer pcb (is it really an issue?). More expensive ones come with faster lan and faster wifi. (why do I need both? why is wifi even integrated on a desktop?)

Have you seen his other videos? He has two other videos out over an hour long for each manufacturer of x570 boards. That video was his quick one.

 

[bjohansen]

I'm going to order the 3900X once it gets in stock. No plans to do any custom loops or heavy overclocking. The plan is to get a 360mm AIO and let the auto magic run it course (XFR, PB2, PBO).

I want support for 4 dimms at 3600Mhz CL16 (thinking of getting 4x8GB).
Wifi and bluetooth
7+ USB ports
2+ m.2 slots

After reading through this thread, there's a matter of PCB layers as well. Is that something to be worried about?

I'm specifically looking at either the MSI MPG X570 Gaming Pro Carbon or the Gigabyte X570 Ultra. Asus Prime X570-Pro is also in the back of my head for due to the color scheme I'm going for, but then I would sacrifice wifi/bluetooth.
The MSI board is currently 18% off, making it the cheapest of the three.

Does it matter which brand I pick? Do they all have functional bioses to suit my needs? Or is it worth spending a bit more for higher quality. If so, which board is recommended?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Is that something to be worried about?

The short answer is: we don't know. Nobody has benched a 4-layer board vs a 6 or 8-layer board for PCIe 4.0 bandwidth. In theory the 4-layer board may throttle back a bit, but in practice . . . nobody's observed this yet.

Generally speaking, 4-layer = OEM being needlessly cheap. All x570 should be 6-layer or better, honestly. But if it can work with 4-layer PCB then who really cares?

 

[lopri]

Anyone considering the Asus X570 workstation board?

Overpriced crap. You'd better get CH8 Hero for the same money if you want an ASUS board. CH8 is actually cheaper by $20.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Arocks memory recommendation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.to...cpus-memory-recommendations-asrock,39756.html

With a major pet peeve of mine. No slight against AMD or Asrock since everyone does this.
How the hell do they get away with saying the board supports up to (I know up to is a nifty way of saying less than) ddr 4666 but then you look at what’s supported it’s ddr 3200.
How are they allowed to do such a thing and not lose a lawsuit?

*I know it likely supports faster memory just irritates me we support up to this number but then it actually turns out to be a different number

I don't quite know what you mean by "allowed to do this"? Why wouldn't they? It's just overclocking support, for the RAM.

Look at a (hypothetical) mobo's specs, for DRAM speeds, they list things like: 4600(*OC),4333(*OC),4000(*OC),3600(*OC),3400(*OC),3200,2667,2400,2133,1866. (*OC: Overclocked speeds. Also dependent on CPU/APU's memory-controller tolerance.).

That's just a contrived example, don't take it literally. But generally, they follow the same sort of pattern.

The listed speeds with (*OC), they've achieved with lab testing, and the listed speeds without the (*OC), are officially-supported JEDEC-standard speeds.

Now that time has passed this is what I meant
MSI says supports up to 128GB!

Then memory support chart says it supports up to four 16BG modules.
That’s not 128...

from website:

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS/Specification

Then on their supported memory:

Four 16GB is max listed as supported

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS#support-mem-19

To me this appears to be 64GB max not 128GB max

 

[dlerious]

Now that time has passed this is what I meant
MSI says supports up to 128GB!

Then memory support chart says it supports up to four 16BG modules.
That’s not 128...

from website:

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS/Specification

To me this appears to be 64GB max not 128GB max

Four 32GB DIMMS that haven't been tested yet?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Four 32GB DIMMS that haven't been tested yet?

Then how does it support 128GB?

 

[lopri]

Lol that is hilarious. To be fair, that hilarity has existed for a long time.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Lol that is hilarious. To be fair, that hilarity has existed for a long time.

that’s what pisses me off and this is exactly what I was trying to explain 2 months ago.

 

[dlerious]

Then how does it support 128GB?

Don't know. Other than ECC, it looks like 32GB has only been available for desktop for about a year. I see Gskill Trident Z RGB DC for ASUS Z390 only (3000/3200) and Corsair Vengeance LPX (2666) that says latest Intel motherboards.