X800 PRO launch on 4th of May + specs

[XBoxLPU]

i thought the second pic was ps2.0 vs ps3.0

i'm not quite clear at this point whether it is or not because i didnt read of any statements made by nvidia other than the first pic is ps1.1.

if the second pic is 1.1 as well, then i had a mistake. it happens

The first is 1.1 and Second is 3.0

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU

i thought the second pic was ps2.0 vs ps3.0

i'm not quite clear at this point whether it is or not because i didnt read of any statements made by nvidia other than the first pic is ps1.1.

if the second pic is 1.1 as well, then i had a mistake. it happens

The first is 1.1 and Second is 3.0

the second set of pics with the staute?

 

[XBoxLPU]

PS 1.1 ( orginally posted by AIWGuru as PS 2.0 )

PS 3.0

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU

i thought the second pic was ps2.0 vs ps3.0

i'm not quite clear at this point whether it is or not because i didnt read of any statements made by nvidia other than the first pic is ps1.1.

if the second pic is 1.1 as well, then i had a mistake. it happens

The first is 1.1 and Second is 3.0

the second set of pics with the staute?

it's not that complicated...

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Venomous
Its way to early to tell, honestly.

Though im somewhat impressed with the NV40, i also saddened by the fact that it doesnt have as much horsepower. For something requiring two power sources, i expect a much higher core clock and memory.

ATI may just pull it out. Their crown is on the line.

Should be interesting here in a few weeks.

You have to be kidding, a 222 million transistor chip... amazing performance thats cpu limited in many tests so the ceiling wont even be known until new tiers of CPUs come out, but youre disappointed with the clockspeeds?

Time to go buy a FX5800U for you

500mhz core 1000mhz mem!

 

[Alkali]

Some people never happy

I was glad to see nVidia finally managed to pull something out of the factury that was any use... For far too long (whole FX line basically) they have been playing catchup. Now we wait to see how it tallies up to the ATi card and (if its true) the very fast release and sale of X800's on May 4th and X800XT's after May 14th.

 

[Davegod]

Nobody should be putting any faith in those screens, and tbh I'm surprised anybody tried to use them to backup comment, and PC Perspective should be a tad embarassed IMHO. Anyone played FC on their non-6800 video cards and have it look anything like as ugly as the PS1.1 pic? I mean, look at the water in the statue pic FFS - yes, that stupid blue stuff is water. Shadows?


I declare shenanigans.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Venomous
Its way to early to tell, honestly.

Though im somewhat impressed with the NV40, i also saddened by the fact that it doesnt have as much horsepower. For something requiring two power sources, i expect a much higher core clock and memory.

ATI may just pull it out. Their crown is on the line.

Should be interesting here in a few weeks.

Expect a higher clock w/ 6900Ultra.

And at least 20% more performance with mature drivers for (this) nV40.

Ati always has NEXT year. . . . their crown is (so) gone . . .

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Venomous
Its way to early to tell, honestly.

Though im somewhat impressed with the NV40, i also saddened by the fact that it doesnt have as much horsepower. For something requiring two power sources, i expect a much higher core clock and memory.

ATI may just pull it out. Their crown is on the line.

Should be interesting here in a few weeks.

Expect a higher clock w/ 6900Ultra.

And at least 20% more performance with mature drivers for (this) nV40.

Ati always has NEXT year. . . . their crown is (so) gone . . .

In NV30, nvidia adopted a several generation premature VLIW *cough* Itanium *cough* design giving it its B.S. IPC.
NV40 has gone back to a NIMD/SIMD design so, yes, it will take SOME time to get the JIT driver optomizations to a decent level of performance.

 

[AIWGuru]

Though im somewhat impressed with the NV40, i also saddened by the fact that it doesnt have as much horsepower

Oh come ON. How can anyone be this...silly.
Damn those Athlon 64 FXs. They just don't have that much horsepower...only 2.2ghz!? WTF!

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: XBoxLPU

i thought the second pic was ps2.0 vs ps3.0

i'm not quite clear at this point whether it is or not because i didnt read of any statements made by nvidia other than the first pic is ps1.1.

if the second pic is 1.1 as well, then i had a mistake. it happens

The first is 1.1 and Second is 3.0

the second set of pics with the staute?

it's not that complicated...

apparently it was...

 

[wizdum]

So why are you guys arguing? They could use PS1.1 to make the same effects as the PS3.0 screenshot, but it wouldn't run as well because to do that it requires more processing for PS1.1, and less for PS3.0. That's it, right? Doesn't seem too complex to me..

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: wizdum
So why are you guys arguing? They could use PS1.1 to make the same effects as the PS3.0 screenshot, but it wouldn't run as well because to do that it requires more processing for PS1.1, and less for PS3.0. That's it, right? Doesn't seem to complex to me..

They could do the same thing in software on a 286. It would just take 8 years per frame. That's kind of the point, the easier it is, the more fps you can get. If you have "spare" fps, you can run more simultaneous shaders which translates into better effects.

 

[wizdum]

Understood.

 

[Venomous]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Venomous
Its way to early to tell, honestly.

Though im somewhat impressed with the NV40, i also saddened by the fact that it doesnt have as much horsepower. For something requiring two power sources, i expect a much higher core clock and memory.

ATI may just pull it out. Their crown is on the line.

Should be interesting here in a few weeks.

You have to be kidding, a 222 million transistor chip... amazing performance thats cpu limited in many tests so the ceiling wont even be known until new tiers of CPUs come out, but youre disappointed with the clockspeeds?

Time to go buy a FX5800U for you

500mhz core 1000mhz mem!

You assume its CPU limited. Honestly, im glad NV bounced back, but its really not enough, esp if ATI cranks up the core and memory on their new XT.

Lets see filrate increased. I want to see Nvidia lay down a 512 meg card, running 256 bit memory, in dual channel mode. This will exceed the so-called CPU limited bottleneck you are discussing.

There is no ceiling that hasnt been reached on this card. If thats the case, then the 9800XT is just as CPU Limited now isnt?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: UlricT
As I see it, PS2.0 code can be optimised to run more effieciently using PS3.0 hardware due to the branching & arbitrarily long instuctions. This does NOT add functionality, but programmability. Therefore better graphics would not be the word to use here... it would be more efficient on the hardware to use PS3.0, leading to longer shader rountines by coders! Nothing else...

If someone here is a better assembly writer than I am and can comment, it would be appreciated, but don't you need dynamic flow control for logic statements(ifs) and loops? If so, then there could definately be some functionality added, simply due to the fact that there are some things that can't be done without DFC.

 

[NYHoustonman]

 

[KristopherKubicki]

what happened to arpril 26???

I think retailers will start getting the card that early. Reviewers and merchants may have to wait till may 4 to announce they have cards though.

Kristopher

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki

what happened to arpril 26???

I think retailers will start getting the card that early. Reviewers and merchants may have to wait till may 4 to announce they have cards though.

Kristopher

Post 26th will be leaks galore!

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
If someone here is a better assembly writer than I am and can comment, it would be appreciated, but don't you need dynamic flow control for logic statements(ifs) and loops? If so, then there could definately be some functionality added, simply due to the fact that there are some things that can't be done without DFC.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru

Originally posted by: Alkali
As a side note:

I was reading a very intelligent post made by a guy on rage3d discussing Pixel shader 2.0 and 3.0.

Basically, PS3.0 does not actually make anything look any better.

Wow, so much crap in this thread, I don't know where to begin.
I'll just address this one for now:
This guy at rage3d is a retard.


PS 1.1

PS 3.0

Any questions?


If those specs are even remotely accurate, Nvidia has ATI completely, inarguably schooled this round...

I am sorry Guru but you are WAY wrong on this one!

PS3.0 offers 0 visual enchancements over PS2.0. Like has been mentioned since it allows for more efficiency the games might actually look better but in terms of the actual IQ features, PS3.0 doesn't offer anything 2.0 cannot do. 3.0 can just do it in a different manner.

Here is the response of Nvidia's representatives when asked about the topic:
"GD: NVIDIA and the gaming industry seem to be (eventually) moving to Pixel Shader 3.0 - What advantages do 3.0 have over 2.0? What effects can be done in 3.0 that can't be done with 2.0?

Ujesh: Shader Model 3.0 offers many new features that developers are excited about. I?ll highlight a few: First, there is the ability to finally support loops and branches in programs. This is a fundamental requirement and will improve the efficiency in how programmers can write their code. Another cool feature is Geometry Instancing. This feature is particularly useful for real-time strategy games. Instead of sending small models down the graphics pipe one at a time, programmers can batch up the geometry and send it down the pipe as a single instance. They can then index into that geometry and apply specific attributes. The result will be larger, more epic battles that play at blazing-fast frame rates."

Now nowhere is it mentioned that 3.0 can actually "directly" provide better visuals. Now I understand where your other logic is coming from in that by being more efficient essentially you can make the games look better. I do agree with that but you have to realize most graphic cards users still chug along with PS2.0 hardware or even slower thus not making a lot of incentive for developers to implement PS3.0 in a lot of games. I am sure ATI is not stupid enough to exclude PS3.0 altogether if it delivers the huge performance difference you speak of. It will not be like going from a 486 to a pentium 1 believe me. This is going to be a close race and if ATI performs better in PS2.0 games then who really cares about PS3.0 support? You can read up the interview article right here.

Also those images you posted compare PS1.1 and PS3.0 as you have mentioned so you are not comparing apples to apples because you need to see PS2.0 to PS3.0 comparison to be able to make a judgement. But I think many ppl helped to point that out already...

And 6800Ultra does not use the PS2.0 shaders correctly in Far Cry and some other games so what Nvidia should do first is improve their drivers, because the lighting and illumination still looks a lot worse than on ATI's hardware; not to mention lower grade image quality due to lower precision in Unreal 2004 as well.

Cheers.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
the 12 pipe, slower clocked chip will be released first, the 16 pipe, faster chip later. That's probably why we're seeing conflicting information.

I have seen this too. The 12 pipe card will be released on the 26th and the 16 pipe card on the 5th... I think there is supposed to be an XT model soon after that?

The XT model IS THE 16 pipe solution which will be released about 2 weeks after the May 4th launch date of the 12 pipe x800pro solution.

 

[Blastman]

That looks more like detail setting changes then Pixel Shaders to me...

Yup. Those PC -perspective shots are a joke. The first set has lowered textures and detail settings for sure -- beisides the ps1.1.

 

[Blastman]

AFAIK the VAST majority of situations will still use the ps2.0 model. Using the branching in ps3.0 has large branch penalties so I?m guessing for most shaders (probably smaller ones) you probably don?t want to touch the branching because of the performance hit.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru

Originally posted by: UlricT
AIWGuru... 1.x shaders are from DirectX 8!
I think the argument here is DX9b vs. DX9c!!!

Yes, but what we're talking about is PS 3.0 being able to do the same ammount of work in 1/10th the ammount of time as PS 2.0.
Saying PS 2.0 = PS 3.0 just because it's capable of producing the same visuals EVENTUALLY (with much more work) is stupid.
It can't be PRACTICALLY done because it's MUCH MUCH slower.

AIWGuru, one of the few guys who actualy understands what's going on.

I am soooooooooo tired of reading this totally un-substanciated PS3.0 bashing of some people - its VERY EASY:

PS3.0 is an EXTENSION and IMPROVEMENT over the older code
It offers more powerful commands, dynamic branching, registers, instancing

PS2.0 would need much more code, some code may even be impossible to realize on PS2.0 hardware. (Branching)

PS3.0 is good - as is ANY step toward the future because develoeprs who jump on it and code for it also PUSH so we end up having MROE adavnced game engines.

Less and more effective code/comands ----> LOGICALLY means better performance

Easier to code and less performance impact COULD mean better visuals because the effort in PS2.0 might be too big.

This whole discussion gets bizarre.

We could also sit here and start debating whether SIMD, 3DNOW, MMX etc. are a 'waste' and how 'it is possible to do the same' with normal CPU instructions....etc...etc....

I like ATI, like i saif a few times already, i own a 9800Pro and had a 8500 before. GREAT cards. But i dont make the mistake and pos unsubstanciated negative coments about something which is good....EXCEPT (like HB does or some other people) PROOF me that NV's implementation is 'slow', buggy etc. like they say. Uh !!!! Its amazing how brand-loyality or wishful thinking can distort a healthy view on reality