X800XL vs. 6800GT

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Genx87
If you can get the ATi card for 100 bucks less then get it. If they are both within a stones throw of each other then get the 6800GT.

What he said.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

If there is no price difference than the 6800GT is the better choice hands-down.

Well the x800xl does have some pluses over the 6800GT, if you have say a 335-350w powesupply you dont have to worry about upgrading it. The x800xl is quieter than the 6800GT. The x800xl also doesnt require a plug into the powersupply in PCIE and draws straight from the board. And finally theres the matter of the broken video processor in the 6800GT.
I dont think its as cut and dry as you're trying to make it, there are things to consider.

Actually it is as cut and dry as I said. There are very few games where the X800XL is faster than the 6800GT, the AGP card does require a molex connection, but I ran mine off of a generic 300 watt with 16a on the 12v rail so you don't need a powerhouse to run it. And finally the broken VPU means nothing to people like me as I don't do anything video-related. I am willing to bet that the OP does not do anything like that either as he is running a P4 2.4g, not exactly a video-editing powerhouse. The broken VPU will probably affect his buying decision as much as the ATI's lack of SM3.0.

For me, the bottom line is price/performance. In the US at $300 there is no reason to get the 6800GT over the X800XL, the benefits are just not there (at least not worth $100 in price difference). If the price is the same (or almost so) than there is no reason to get the X800XL. I am not in the camp of either maker, I have owned my fair share of each (actually fewer nVidia cards than ATI). I am just about best bang for the buck.

-spike

EDIT** You could also add in the fact that the 6800GT in AGP is readily available and the X800XL in AGP is nowhere to be seen except in AIW variety. In that case, the OP could get the 6800GT now where as he would have to wait for the ATI or upgrade the entire system which he sounds like he wants to avoid for the time being.

 

[leedog2007]

Its surpising that availibility of the x800xl in canada is so limited considering ATI is a canandien company.

 

[Fenuxx]

::: Takes a piss on old Radeon... :::

Just get the 6800GT. As Rollo and others have said, its featureset, with SM3.0, will be the standard for a while now. Also, as for price, you can get BOTH a 6800GT and an X800XL for about the same price, although the X800XL you might be able to find for cheaper. If you're doing it for AGP, then DEFINITELY the 6800GT, without a doubt. If you're going PCI-E, then its close, but I still give the edge to the 6800GT. Its beefier featureset is worth more to me than $30-60 saved.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: leedog2007
Its surpising that availibility of the x800xl in canada is so limited considering ATI is a canandien company.

True, but when you consider that most are actually manufactured in China, Tawain, or other Asian Locale it makes sense. The US market is just so much larger.

 

[imported_Pep]

Thanks guys for helping me out....sandorski, thanx for the link.

$399 is the cheapest 800XL I've seen...btw if you look further in their list, they have a X800XL AGP version coming in April...it will be $499, so no advantage in waiting for it for me.

It's a tough call, but I think the 6800GT is overall the cheaper solution. It costs $80-100 more than the PCI-E X800XL, but when I consider what it will cost me for a new system if I got the ATI card, it isn't really the more expensive solution.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Pep
Thanks guys for helping me out....sandorski, thanx for the link.

$399 is the cheapest 800XL I've seen...btw if you look further in their list, they have a X800XL AGP version coming in April...it will be $499, so no advantage in waiting for it for me.

It's a tough call, but I think the 6800GT is overall the cheaper solution. It costs $80-100 more than the PCI-E X800XL, but when I consider what it will cost me for a new system if I got the ATI card, it isn't really the more expensive solution.

ya, that's the rub. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 6800GT, it'll certainly give you a nice boost in performance.

 

[leedog2007]

Note for the future pep, use the search feature before starting a new thread. :beer:

 

[Insidious]

(edited for benefit of the doubt)

You will love the 6800GT

-Sid

 

[leedog2007]

Since he is new I thought it would help.

 

[Insidious]

It really doesn't help. It comes off as condescending. I shouldn't have barked either....

-Sid

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SilverTrine

Dont listen to poor old Rollo look at his profile picture he's old and he gets confused sometimes.

I didn't know a person's avatar meant anything? :roll:

He's a troll you see and happily ignores things like the Far Cry developers saying theres nothing that can be done on Sm3 that cant be done on Sm2, he ignores Dave Baumann of Beyond3d who says the exact same thing.[/quote]
The point isn't whether it can be done, the point is whether it will be done. Look at Splinter Cell Chaos Theory- SM3 or SM1.1- too bad so sad.

[/quote] Is it better to have a checkbox feature like Sm3 instead of Sm2? Sure I guess it is, it could well mean 2-3fps down the road, I suppose its up to the individual to decide what thats worth to them, is it worth $100? I dont think anyone with any sense would conclude that![/quote]
I don't think anyone with any sense would conclude that you somehow know what will happen in the next two years as games come out where developers really use SM3/nV40s feature set? Or do you have a time machine?
What about the HDR like in Far Cry? What about the soft stencil shadows of Riddick? There are already games in place with functionality available only on nVidia GPUs, can you tell us why you think there will be no more? When nVidia's developer relations are far superior to ATIs?


There may be a troll in this thread, but I don't think it's me. Anyone who would tell someone the 2002 feature set with the 2003MS standard is good enough for a card bought in 2005 meant to last till 2007 either has an agenda or is just obtuse. Which is it for you SilverTrine?

 

[leedog2007]

Originally posted by: Insidious
It really doesn't help. It comes off as condescending. I shouldn't have barked either....

-Sid

no worries

 

[hans030390]

ATI doesnt have shader model 3.0 like the 6xxx series does...but as of right now, the x800xl is a better buy...but for the future it isnt.

it comes down to this...if you upgrade often, go for whichever you prefer...but if you dont upgrade often, the 6800gt will generally last longer with future games than an x800xl will

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: hans030390
ATI doesnt have shader model 3.0 like the 6xxx series does...but as of right now, the x800xl is a better buy...but for the future it isnt.

it comes down to this...if you upgrade often, go for whichever you prefer...but if you dont upgrade often, the 6800gt will generally last longer with future games than an x800xl will

Why is that?

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: leedog2007
Its surpising that availibility of the x800xl in canada is so limited considering ATI is a canandien company.

compusmart
Only one I found at a close to proper price. Can't believe that Compusmart of all places has it. :beer:

 

[leedog2007]

I think hans was refering to the SM3.0 support.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- are there even AGP X800XLs to be had- I saw one on newegg for $400(!).

This one?
It is expensive and not retail, but is all in wonder, which is a feature important to some.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo
BTW- are there even AGP X800XLs to be had- I saw one on newegg for $400(!).

This one?
It is expensive and not retail, but is all in wonder, which is a feature important to some.

That is the one, but as he doesn't have an AIW, or express the desire for one, I'd say he's better off with the 6800GT.

 

[Creig]

It's interesting how you can play both sides of an argument at one time, Rollo.

Originally posted by: Rollo
I don't think anyone with any sense would conclude that you somehow know what will happen in the next two years as games come out where developers really use SM3/nV40s feature set? Or do you have a time machine?

Originally posted by: Rollo
Anyone who would tell someone the 2002 feature set with the 2003MS standard is good enough for a card bought in 2005 meant to last till 2007 either has an agenda or is just obtuse.

In the first comment, you're saying that nobody with any brains can know what will happen in the next two years. And in the next you're saying that SM2.0 won't be good enough two years from now.

Nice bit of consistency there.



The fact of the matter is that aside from HDR lighting (which kills performance on even current high end cards) and some stencils (should we start referring to these as stencil-days or HDR-days in the same manner that you used to refer to shady-days?) there really isn't much that SM3.0 can do that SM2.0 can't.

 

[nRollo]

In the first comment, you're saying that nobody with any brains can know what will happen in the next two years. And in the next you're saying that SM2.0 won't be good enough two years from now.

Nice bit of consistency there.

The good part about that Creig is I don't need to be able to tell the future to predict this:
I'm covered either way. The guy that buys a X800Xl is gambling that more games won't come out with nV40 only features, when he already knows of one big one that it is. (Splinter Cell)

The guy that buys the 6800GT for two years is covered either way, similar if not better performance, able to actually see the HDR and stencil shadows.

Tough call: Have it all for sure, or for sure be out of luck on at least three games (FarCry/Riddick/Splinter Cell) and hoping you're not left behind on more.

 

[dev0lution]

Just ordered the ATI X800 XL from newegg today for $304...hopefully it'll be here in time for the weekend!!!!!

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Look at Splinter Cell Chaos Theory- SM3 or SM1.1- too bad so sad.

This is the dumbest move I've seen a company make... at least 75% of graphics cards actually in people's computers aren't capable of sm3, and probably a helluva lot more than that. SM3 and SM2 are almost completely interchangeable... They're asking for it with that move.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: Rollo
Look at Splinter Cell Chaos Theory- SM3 or SM1.1- too bad so sad.

This is the dumbest move I've seen a company make... at least 75% of graphics cards actually in people's computers aren't capable of sm3, and probably a helluva lot more than that. SM3 and SM2 are almost completely interchangeable... They're asking for it with that move.

Are they? What if they have a contract for distribution with nVidia OEMS they figure will be a big chunk of their sales, like HL2?

What if they made a deal with nV for X million in cash to make the game a nV showpiece?

What if there will be other games like this?

 

[Keysplayr]

Creig, what prevents ATI R300 thru 480 from being branded SM3.0 compliant?
Also, what allows Nvidia NV40 thru 46 to be branded SM3.0 compliant?
What are the benefits of having it?
What do you lose by not having it?

Do you believe developers will NOT proceed to code games from the bottom up using SM3.0? Do you think they'll skip right over to SM4.0?

The thing is, you and I both know what the proper buy is. And it's not current ATI products with their aged tech. Are they great cards? By all means. Are they the greatest? By no means.

By a PCI-E or AGP (when available, should be soon) X800XL today and save some dough now, but will have to just buy another card soon with SM3.0 compliance. So, is that really saving money if you have to buy 2 cards relatively close together?
Sure, you can sell the X800XL and take a hit on it. But that's not very practical when you could have just bought the 6800GT and be done with it knowing full well that it was made to eat pure SM3.0 for breakfast.

I would like to see a 100% pure SM3.0 game run side by side on a X800XL and a 6800GT. I think 6800GT owner would be pleasantly surprised when the reviewers pick apart the inefficiency at which the ATI SM2.0b card runs SM3.0 while the NV4x runs it as smooth and efficient as it was intended to.

I now have a X800XTPE thanks to Rollo and I am just waiting for new games to come out to see what happens. I have a feeling that the ATI cards are called SM2.0b compiant and not SM3.0 compliant for a reason, and I get to see it first hand. My GT will do just fine.

Wuv,
Keys