[XBIT]AMD Richland vs. Intel Haswell: Integrated Graphics Performance Review

[Abwx]

IIRC Trinity has only 15 GBs memory bandwith so there s quite
some perfs left on the table even with currents APUs , no doubt
that Kaveri s IMC has solved, partly at least, this bottleneck.

 

[frozentundra123456]

That s all circular arguments to elude the point of said review..

Actualy what is obvious is that an A10 can be used for games
up to 1920/1080 while the 4600 can not, sometimes even
at lower res.

Whatever the point of the review, which itself said APUs have not kept up with increasingly demanding games:

"However, while the Trinity used to ensure playable frame rates in games at Full-HD and low visual quality settings, this is not so today. The hardware requirements of the recently released shooters have grown much more than the performance of AMD’s A10 and A8 APUs. There are quite a lot of games now which don’t run fast enough in Full-HD even on the Radeon HD 8670D core from AMD’s A10 series APUs. The integrated graphics must make a step forward to become a truly full-featured modern gaming solution."

it doesnt change the fact that a low end cpu plus discrete is a much better solution for gaming or any graphically demanding app at a vary marginal (if any) increase in cost.

 

[SiliconWars]

Tbh I think that any kind of 1080p gaming on an IGP is amazing. It's ridiculous that anyone would believe that to be the entry-point of acceptability, especially considering most reviews still have faster discrete cards benched at lower resolutions. The 6800K is running games at decent (medium) settings 1366x768, which is for me the sensible entry point as that's your cheap and cheerful system.

Looking through some of the last discrete reviews, cards around the 650 Ti Boost/7850 level are generally benched at 1680x1050 and 1920x1080 - http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/53365-nvidia-geforce-gtx-650-ti-boost-2gb/?page=5. Nobody is complaining about them struggling at 2560x1600.

 

[Abwx]

Whatever the point of the review, which itself said APUs have not kept up with increasingly demanding games:

"However, while the Trinity used to ensure playable frame rates in games at Full-HD and low visual quality settings, this is not so today. The hardware requirements of the recently released shooters have grown much more than the performance of AMD’s A10 and A8 APUs. There are quite a lot of games now which don’t run fast enough in Full-HD even on the Radeon HD 8670D core from AMD’s A10 series APUs. The integrated graphics must make a step forward to become a truly full-featured modern gaming solution."

it doesnt change the fact that a low end cpu plus discrete is a much better solution for gaming or any graphically demanding app at a vary marginal (if any) increase in cost.

And yet his own benches contradict his sayings but i guess
that we re used with Anton Shilov s contradictions.

Out of 7 games he tested at 1080p 5 are perfectly playable
with the A10 , only Crysis and Metro are somewhat reluctants.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-richland-intel-haswell-gpu_5.html#sect0

 

[Zodiark1593]

If AMD was willing to make a higher cost part, they could go the Crystalwell route and add a chunk of eDRAM to the APU.

If they can undercut Intel on the pricing and deliver solid performance, this can very much help AMD take the low end laptop and small form factor segments, especially if AMD can heavily market said hypothetical gaming prowess.

 

[Shivansps]

The problem of AMD on laptops is poor CPU performance, AMD leads on Desktop, but on notebook they struggle to beat the HD4000. And thats mainly because they cant deliver higher frecuency cpus on limited TDP, and on that scenario the IPC is king.

Also the way thats Intel Turbo Boost work allow them to include higher CPU and GPU frecuency in a determined TDP, that also gives Intel the advantage on notebooks.

 

[frozentundra123456]

And yet his own benches contradict his sayings but i guess
that we re used with Anton Shilov s contradictions.

Out of 7 games he tested at 1080p 5 are perfectly playable
with the A10 , only Crysis and Metro are somewhat reluctants.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-richland-intel-haswell-gpu_5.html#sect0

Really?? Battlefield 3 is "perfectly playable" at 26 FPS?? Most dont consider below 30 FPS playable, especially for a game like BF3. That makes 3 of seven not playable at levels most consider acceptable. Bioshock Infinite is also very borderline at only 31 FPS.

I think that is the reason the reviewer came to the conclusion that he did.

In any case whether you consider 720p or 1080p or whatever other compromise you want to make to for some reason promote an APU as a good gaming solution, nothing changes the fact that a discrete gddr5 HD7750 with a athlon x4 750k is much faster at the same or minimally higher cost.

 

[rootheday3]

for the X-bit labs review, given the power delta under gaming load, the Intel parts could have their IGP overclocked significantly and would probably be close to even. A little googling will show that for the last 3 generations (HD3000 on Sandybridge, HD4000 on Ivybridge and now HD4600 on Haswell desktop) seem to be fairly consistently able to OC to 1.6GHz or higher with good scaling. Note that even though CPU overclocking is locked down on non-K Intel skus, iGP overclocking is left wide open (assuming your mobo BIOS offers the multipliers).

Here's an example

For mobile, I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the 28W Haswell parts with Iris 5100. I am looking forward to seeing benches on these - they may rival top Richland 100W desktop graphics performance in games and should be much less pricey than the Iris Pro 5200 parts - both because they are 2C/4T instead of 4C and because they omit the 128MB of eDram.

 

[Gikaseixas]

If one wants to minimize heat and power consumption in a tiny box, something like a 6800k or 6700k makes sense. You won't need a dedicated GPU to play @720p or even @900p resolutions. 1080p is possible in a lot of games but arguing about BF3 or Bioshock Infinite at that resolution is expecting too much out of these APUs and quite honestly retarded. These are quite demanding titles and are meant to be played with high end discret cards. I play FIFA 2013, DIRT2, Diablo3, DOW2, etc @720p with a A8-3850

 

[ShintaiDK]

If one wants to minimize heat and power consumption in a tiny box, something like a 6800k or 6700k makes sense. You won't need a dedicated GPU to play @720p or even @900p resolutions. 1080p is possible in a lot of games but arguing about BF3 or Bioshock Infinite at that resolution is expecting too much out of these APUs and quite honestly retarded. These are quite demanding titles and are meant to be played with high end discret cards. I play FIFA 2013, DIRT2, Diablo3, DOW2, etc @720p with a A8-3850

Ironicly looking at the review. You would have lower power consumption and better performance using an i5 4430+HD7750 than a 6800K.

 

[AtenRa]

Ironicly looking at the review. You would have lower power consumption and better performance using an i5 4430+HD7750 than a 6800K.

Ironically you will pay $189 for the Core i5 4430 + $85 for the HD7750
Total = 189+85 = $274 when A10-6800K costs $149.

Not only that, you CANNOT use any slim SFF cases with Discrete cards.

ps: Also, if they used 2133MHz memory in every CPU, then the performance difference will be even higher using the official memory supported by each APU. Intel only officially supports up to 1600MHz memory. Only the A10-6800K officially supports 2133MHz.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

what if the took the 8mb l3 cache from fx8xxx and stuffed it in the apu?

Graphics tasks cache very badly, because unless you can cache the entire frame, there is little time locality. Or, in other words, the odds of using a piece of data again soon after using it once are low. This should make intuitive sense if you think of textures -- when you pull a single texel out of a large texture, you are not likely to use it again until the next frame at the earliest.

The minimum size at which a cache would help at all at low-ish (720p) resolutions is something like 20-30MB for modern games, because at that point you might manage to keep your render buffers in cache, effectively doubling the bandwidth you get from RAM. 8MB is not going to do anything.

At the point where we got 20-30MB cache available for desktop GPUs, the newest games will require more.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not only that, you CANNOT use any slim SFF cases with Discrete cards.

That would excude the 6800K as well, due to its high power draw.

Ironically you will pay $189 for the Core i5 4430 + $85 for the HD7750
Total = 189+85 = $274 when A10-6800K costs $149.

I think you forgot performance somewhere. The 6800K would be disasterously slow compared in CPU.

 

[AtenRa]

That would excude the 6800K as well, due to its high power draw.

Nope, i have used A10-5800K (6800K has lower power) with a Slim SFF CoolerMaster Elite 100 case.

I think you forgot performance somewhere. The 6800K would be disasterously slow compared in CPU.

You cant have both, Intel has higher CPU performance and AMD has higher GPU performance. But at the same price of $149(Core i3) AMD has ~90% of Intels CPU performance and 40% and up Higher GPU performance making it the better all around solution.

 

[USER8000]

Ironically you will pay $189 for the Core i5 4430 + $85 for the HD7750
Total = 189+85 = $274 when A10-6800K costs $149.

Not only that, you CANNOT use any slim SFF cases with Discrete cards.

ps: Also, if they used 2133MHz memory in every CPU, then the performance difference will be even higher using the official memory supported by each APU. Intel only officially supports up to 1600MHz memory. Only the A10-6800K officially supports 2133MHz.

Agreed,as I have done many SFF builds myself. Moreover,you would use the A10 5700 or A10 6700 in such builds anyway,as they consume far less power than either the A10 5800K or A10 6800K. A 120W to 150W picoPSU would more than enough for such a system anyway,

 

[frozentundra123456]

If one wants to minimize heat and power consumption in a tiny box, something like a 6800k or 6700k makes sense. You won't need a dedicated GPU to play @720p or even @900p resolutions. 1080p is possible in a lot of games but arguing about BF3 or Bioshock Infinite at that resolution is expecting too much out of these APUs and quite honestly retarded. These are quite demanding titles and are meant to be played with high end discret cards. I play FIFA 2013, DIRT2, Diablo3, DOW2, etc @720p with a A8-3850

So basically you are saying it is "retarded" to point out any data that disagrees with your point of view?

 

[USER8000]

So basically you are saying it is "retarded" to point out any data that disagrees with your point of view?

Even though I consider the A8 series the best value for money AMD APUs,the A10 series do have it uses,especially the A10 5700 and A10 6700 models. You could probably run a passively cooled box with one of them with the right case,running off a picoPSU.

You are also assuming that everyone is using 1920X1080 displays or even will not turn down some settings. Enthusiasts are all about(in Crysis nanosuit voice) maximum settings! maximum resolution! maximum gaming!

This is why we spend more on computer parts and change them more often than most other people. Its kind of our hobby too.

Most people will just turn down the settings.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Even though I consider the A8 series the best value for money AMD APUs,the A10 series do have it uses,especially the A10 5700 and A10 6700 models. You could probably run a passively cooled box with one of them with the right case,running off a picoPSU.

You are also assuming that everyone is using 1920X1080 displays or even will not turn down some settings. Enthusiasts are all about(in Crysis nanosuit voice) maximum settings! maximum resolution! maximum gaming!

This is why we spend more on computer parts and change them more often than most other people. Its kind of our hobby too.

Most people will just turn down the settings.

Or get better performance by buying a discrete card and a low end cpu at very near the same price. It is humorous to see APU advocates continuing to claim you can game on an apu (which is true) but refusing to acknowledge you get much better performance from a low end card and a low end cpu. I an not advocating everyone get a high end gaming system, I am just advocating getting 2x the performance in gaming for very nearly the same price.

 

[USER8000]

Or get better performance by buying a discrete card and a low end cpu at very near the same price. It is humorous to see APU advocates continuing to claim you can game on an apu (which is true) but refusing to acknowledge you get much better performance from a low end card and a low end cpu. I an not advocating everyone get a high end gaming system, I am just advocating getting 2x the performance in gaming for very nearly the same price.

Which in the scheme of things with say an A8 is not really applicable in most parts of the world or for loads of prebuilds. The problem is as usual is people also only look at one model in the whole range, or even think with the kinds of budgets involved, whether spending 30 to 35 Euro or £30 to £35 more,is nothing which again is the case for enthusiasts.

 

[Gikaseixas]

So basically you are saying it is "retarded" to point out any data that disagrees with your point of view?

Allow me to help you
Retarded is saying APUs suck because they're benching in the mid 20's or low 30's @1080p in games such as BF3 or Bioshock Infinite. Your comment twisting nature is simply amazing.

 

[Gikaseixas]

One last time:
APU - moderate gaming (nothing wrong with this statement)
CPU+GPU - high res, high settings
Nobody's denying that dedicated GPU are better for gaming. We're just saying that an APU will be able to run most games at reasonable settings such as 720p and 900p res.

 

[Vesku]

laptops should be closer, just like it was with Ivy vs Trinity...

but I agree, that DDR3 1600 (even the system ram they choose is 2133MHz lol) 7750 is really bad.... DDR5 model (reference model) is a lot faster...

I think the DDR3 7750 is a decent placeholder for Kaveri.

 

[beginner99]

Nothing new. GPU part is way overpowered for average facebook joe and too slow for most modern games at native display resolution. playing at 720p also ignores the fact that you loose image quality due to running on non-native display resolution.

the athlon 750k + discrete just makes a lot more sense. Here 750k + cheapest 7770 is only $30 more than a 6800k. And that without any rebates.

 

[monstercameron]

Nothing new. GPU part is way overpowered for average facebook joe and too slow for most modern games at native display resolution. playing at 720p also ignores the fact that you loose image quality due to running on non-native display resolution.

the athlon 750k + discrete just makes a lot more sense. Here 750k + cheapest 7770 is only $30 more than a 6800k. And that without any rebates.

that is assuming that the native res isnt close to 720p. the a10-6800k makes more sense in many ways other than raw performance.
eg. it is better to buy a 6800k then upgrade. might not even need to upgrade, who knows maybe because the 6800k is adequate for blops2, league of legends, dota2, warframe, wow or cs:go and a bunch of other f2p / older titles in 1080p

 

[frozentundra123456]

that is assuming that the native res isnt close to 720p. the a10-6800k makes more sense in many ways other than raw performance.
eg. it is better to buy a 6800k then upgrade. might not even need to upgrade, who knows maybe because the 6800k is adequate for blops2, league of legends, dota2, warframe, wow or cs:go and a bunch of other f2p / older titles in 1080p

Which still does not answer the question of why you would not pay less than the price of one new game to get approximately twice the performance. Even if you have a 720p monitor (all I know that is 720p now is a cheap TV) you can use the added graphics power to play at higher image quality or get better framerates in graphically demanding games. As far as upgrading, the CPU performance of the 750k will be very close to that of an APU, so you can upgrade it just as easily. In fact if you get the CPU plus discrete initially there will be less need to upgrade because you have twice the performance to begin with.