Xbox 2 specifications now officially available

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Baked
And the price? $1K! But it's all worth it, 'cause MS made it and it's a XBox!

Uh dude, it's probably going to be around the $499-599 mark. And for that monster, I think it is WELL WORTH IT! I can't wait for it to come out!

 

[Eug]

I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Eug
I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

$399 is my guess, as well.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Anyone know what kind of video outputs this thing will support? If it has DVI, that would be very tempting...(I could hook it up to my 2005FPW)

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Eug
I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

$399 is my guess, as well.

If it's $399 for the super deluxe model (with the hard drive), that is a definite steal!

 

[Acanthus]

I would pay $399 for the model with the HD.

 

[Sunner]

Ben, where did you head that IBM will replace POWER with Cell?

Anyway, what I'm curious about is how they will cool this thing.
Let's just guesstimate those PowerPC CPU's will have a TDP of 50W each.
Couple this with a GPU that will likely be at least in the same ballpark, if not higher, and you're looking at 200W already, not an easy task in such a confined space.

Of course, those CPU's could be way lower than the 970FX in terms of TDP, say 25W, but that's still 125W in a very confined space, plus of course the rest from memory, motherboard, etc.
And there's of course the slight problem that as far as I know, IBM has never released the TDP for 970FX, but with Apple having relatively elaborate cooling solutions in their boxes, I think it's safe to assume it's no VIA C3 in terms of TDP.

Oh well, time will tell.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Ben, where did you head that IBM will replace POWER with Cell?

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER(it even contains a simplified POWER core as its general purpose functional unit). Read up on anything IBM has in its roadmap- Cell was built from the ground up as a modular processor capable of being adapted for any type of design requirements- from integrated levels all the way up to SuperComputers. They already are rolling out workstations, with a one rack configuration pushing 16TFLOPS.

There isn't a market that POWER is in where it makes more sense then Cell, quite the contrary. Workstation, server, scientific computing- all applications where Cell in a tailored configuration is easily superior to POWER.

Edit-

Forgot to mention on the general topic- the 'Deluxe' XB360 will retail for $399 with the base model hitting the $299 price point.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Ben, where did you head that IBM will replace POWER with Cell?

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER(it even contains a simplified POWER core as its general purpose functional unit). Read up on anything IBM has in its roadmap- Cell was built from the ground up as a modular processor capable of being adapted for any type of design requirements- from integrated levels all the way up to SuperComputers. They already are rolling out workstations, with a one rack configuration pushing 16TFLOPS.

There isn't a market that POWER is in where it makes more sense then Cell, quite the contrary. Workstation, server, scientific computing- all applications where Cell in a tailored configuration is easily superior to POWER.

Edit-

Forgot to mention on the general topic- the 'Deluxe' XB360 will retail for $399 with the base model hitting the $299 price point.

I agree in number crunching applications, I was thinking more of the pSeries and iSeries, where I don't think it would fit at all for numerous reasons.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Ben, where did you head that IBM will replace POWER with Cell?

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER(it even contains a simplified POWER core as its general purpose functional unit). Read up on anything IBM has in its roadmap- Cell was built from the ground up as a modular processor capable of being adapted for any type of design requirements- from integrated levels all the way up to SuperComputers. They already are rolling out workstations, with a one rack configuration pushing 16TFLOPS.

There isn't a market that POWER is in where it makes more sense then Cell, quite the contrary. Workstation, server, scientific computing- all applications where Cell in a tailored configuration is easily superior to POWER.

Edit-

Forgot to mention on the general topic- the 'Deluxe' XB360 will retail for $399 with the base model hitting the $299 price point.

POWER6 has already been in development for quite some time, according to IBM. And I'd be surprised if it was based on Cell.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Ben, where did you head that IBM will replace POWER with Cell?

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER(it even contains a simplified POWER core as its general purpose functional unit). Read up on anything IBM has in its roadmap- Cell was built from the ground up as a modular processor capable of being adapted for any type of design requirements- from integrated levels all the way up to SuperComputers. They already are rolling out workstations, with a one rack configuration pushing 16TFLOPS.

There isn't a market that POWER is in where it makes more sense then Cell, quite the contrary. Workstation, server, scientific computing- all applications where Cell in a tailored configuration is easily superior to POWER.

Edit-

Forgot to mention on the general topic- the 'Deluxe' XB360 will retail for $399 with the base model hitting the $299 price point.

POWER6 has already been in development for quite some time, according to IBM. And I'd be surprised if it was based on Cell.

I believe IBM's roadmap streches as far as POWER8, but Bens statement makes alot more sense if only talking about visualization systems, and other such applications, rather than systems for commercial workloads.

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
Hmm i doubt thats gonna be sold for 300$.

I dont see children'ts parents buying their children a 800+$ xbox for christmas.

Can you say 3DO?

3D-O-A!

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Eug
I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

hell, for a tri core around r520 spec'ed box, id pay up to $800 if it had dvi or vga out as well as component. would make a great idea to mod it, add 768mb more ram and run windows on it as my primary gaming box.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Eug
I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

hell, for a tri core around r520 spec'ed box, id pay up to $800 if it had dvi or vga out as well as component. would make a great idea to mod it, add 768mb more ram and run windows on it as my primary gaming box.

Be sure to let us know when you find a WinXP build for those PPC cores. You ain't runnin' Windows on this thing.

 

[Eug]

I believe IBM's roadmap streches as far as POWER8, but Bens statement makes alot more sense if only talking about visualization systems, and other such applications, rather than systems for commercial workloads.

Yeah, Cell is cool and all and will be adapted/tweaked/customized for a lot of usage, but a POWER replacement it ain't.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Eug
I was thinking $399 myself, but who knows. As long it's in that ballpark, it'd make a sweet Linux box.

hell, for a tri core around r520 spec'ed box, id pay up to $800 if it had dvi or vga out as well as component. would make a great idea to mod it, add 768mb more ram and run windows on it as my primary gaming box.

Be sure to let us know when you find a WinXP build for those PPC cores. You ain't runnin' Windows on this thing.

well, you should be able to find an emulator right?

 

[digitalsm]

Im betting pricing will be $399 without HDD, and $449 with HDD.

The theory is MS is going to be Sony to market by atleast 6 months, if not a full twelve. PS3 isnt supposed to be launched in Japan until Q1/Q2 2006. And the american launch, well after that.

 

[BenSkywalker]

POWER6 has already been in development for quite some time, according to IBM. And I'd be surprised if it was based on Cell.

What is a good way to put this.....

Cell IS POWER. It isn't that POWER6 will be based on Cell, Cell is based on the POWER core, it simply makes it a significantly more flexible platform to use. Cell is the platform which POWER6 will use which itself is a platform designed FOR POWER in the first place.

Look to the current design considerations that the POWER team has talked about- packaging concerns and heat(and how to utilize each processing element more effectively), clockspeed ramping and the inability of POWER to compete with the vector based super computers in terms of reaching performance potentials. These elements are the bullet list of what Cell improves on over existing POWER cores.

I think too many people are thinking of Cell in terms of the singular implementation that is going to be included in the PS3. Reducing or eliminating SIMD functional units and instead using the die space for additional POWER functional cores is easily accomplished using the Cell architecture. Cell's modularity is what makes it such a clearly logical choice for a company in IBM's position- the scalability and the communication potential(on and off die) of the design make it an excellent choice from embedded systems all the way up to BlueGene crushing next gen SuperComputers.

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: beany323
xbox = good graphics
ps2= decent graphics + the best controller out there.

(i have all consoles, and i love xbox for the graphics and online play, but the ps2 controller so beats all the others...)

edit: btw, i will buy the newest xbox.. cause it will rock!

PS2 is and will always be better than xbox due to one reason,

GAMES

ps2 has so many more better games.

I owned an xbox and ended up selling it because I never bought any games for it!!

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

POWER6 has already been in development for quite some time, according to IBM. And I'd be surprised if it was based on Cell.

What is a good way to put this.....

Cell IS POWER. It isn't that POWER6 will be based on Cell, Cell is based on the POWER core, it simply makes it a significantly more flexible platform to use. Cell is the platform which POWER6 will use which itself is a platform designed FOR POWER in the first place.

Look to the current design considerations that the POWER team has talked about- packaging concerns and heat(and how to utilize each processing element more effectively), clockspeed ramping and the inability of POWER to compete with the vector based super computers in terms of reaching performance potentials. These elements are the bullet list of what Cell improves on over existing POWER cores.

I think too many people are thinking of Cell in terms of the singular implementation that is going to be included in the PS3. Reducing or eliminating SIMD functional units and instead using the die space for additional POWER functional cores is easily accomplished using the Cell architecture. Cell's modularity is what makes it such a clearly logical choice for a company in IBM's position- the scalability and the communication potential(on and off die) of the design make it an excellent choice from embedded systems all the way up to BlueGene crushing next gen SuperComputers.

Cell is the logical evolution of POWER.

Since when are IBM's servers dependent upon vector performance?

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: beany323
xbox = good graphics
ps2= decent graphics + the best controller out there.

(i have all consoles, and i love xbox for the graphics and online play, but the ps2 controller so beats all the others...)

edit: btw, i will buy the newest xbox.. cause it will rock!

PS2 is and will always be better than xbox due to one reason,

GAMES

ps2 has so many more better games.

I owned an xbox and ended up selling it because I never bought any games for it!!

PS2 might have the WORST controller out there. Just absolutely HORRIBLE for FPSs(my main console game type) Xbox has the nice nifty triggers, the ps2 is just not laid out for fps games.(love the placement of the D-PAD on the analog stick position(xbox controller vs ps2 controller). seriously. The D-Pad > Analog stick for movement. I cant stand freaking analog stick for movement.

Arcade Box(nothing better than custom made) > PC Keyboard/Mouse > Xbox Controller > Dreamcast Controller > SNES controller(Pinnacle of combination between simplicity and functionality) > Classics(NES, Atari 2600, easy to pick up) > PS2 Controller > Intellivision Numpad/Controller(0 feedback, clumsy) > Gamecube P.O.S. Controller

Games is still PS2's forte, but now with all the cross platform games, it isnt as big as it used to be.

 

[remagavon]

Anyone who thinks the 2600's controller is comfortable is insane

 

[Sunner]

I just can't fathom how anyone can stand to play FPS's on consoles with their controllers.
I've tried a few on both an XBox and a PS2, but I find myself just giving up pretty quickly, FPS's just aren't playable using controllers.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Since when are IBM's servers dependent upon vector performance?

Huh...? Why would they be? Obviously in a server based environment you could reduce/eliminate the need for vector throughput and instead focus on the highest amount of general purpose cores and cache the fabrication process will allow.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Sunner
I just can't fathom how anyone can stand to play FPS's on consoles with their controllers.
I've tried a few on both an XBox and a PS2, but I find myself just giving up pretty quickly, FPS's just aren't playable using controllers.

Sure, the kb/mouse precision can't be beat, but that doesn't make a controller less fun. (At least to me.) And yes, most FPS' are better on the PC, but not all.

Doom 3 and both Halos are good examples of FPS' that I enjoy more on the Xbox than the PC. Sitting on the couch in front of a widescreen HDTV, surrounded by 5.1dd sound, beats the hell out of sitting at a desk.

So, to say "they aren't playable..." is pretty much hyperbole.