XBOX a failure?

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Originally posted by: TallGeese

Originally posted by: CripplerCrossface
Someone do this for me. name 10 games on ps2 that are must have AND completely exclusive. someone enlighten me.

I own an Xbox, but I would pick up a PS2 if the price was right for these games:

SOCOM
Gran Turismo 3
Tekken 4/Virtua Fighter 4 (toss-up)
Twisted Metal: Black
Devil May Cry

BUT it would have to be a DARN good price!

I saw GT3 and Twisted Metal: Black on the bargain rack at WalMart a few days ago. $20 or $25 apiece.

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Originally posted by: Ganryu

Originally posted by: CripplerCrossface

Originally posted by: Ganryu

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Ganryu
What's the problem with sequels if they are good? My point is that Xbox was a failure because it does not have any hot exclusive games, with the exception of Halo (which I don't even like) and a couple of others. Even Gamecube has promising games such as the metroid and zelda sequels and the staple mario. People keep mentioning Xbox live but the problem is that its going to cost a lot of money. 50 bucks a year + 10 bucks a month after that. PS2 is a one time $40 investment.

One time $40 investment? lol, you must be joking. Each software company needs to develop their own network and run their own servers. They are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. EA Sports will charge maybe $40/year and Square may charge $20/year etc... Each company can charge whatever they want, and they will charge...maybe even monthly.

Fine then, even if EA sports and square start charging money, that's going to be on top of the monthly fee you pay for xbox live.

you're quite uniformed. whatever xbox charges is going to be a base fee. they are using their own servers for all of the games. its also a lot easier cause u only have one bill to pay for online gaming.

Yes you are correct I made a mistake. However, with the monthly fee, I'm not sure how many users are going to pay for Xbox live. (I am referring to people who are making a decision to buy a new video game console). Regarding my argument about the games however, the point is that there is still are few killer games out for the system, that aren't available on either the computer or PS2 already.

youre prob right. there prob isnt too much for one to convert from ps2 to xbox right NOW. in a year we could not possibly be able to say the same because the system is simply not capable of the games that will come out for the xbox in the future. ps2 already hit its peak. xbox is just starting out and the only detriment to it is that it doesnt have namco, rockstar or square games. When ps2 comes down to $99 I will happily purchase it. but for one that doesnt have a next gen console, what besides gta would they buy it for? paying more money for a less powerful console that doesnt include a harddrive, ethernet, and two free games doenst make sense to me. IMO i dont think anyone can think of a good reason to buy the ps2 besides it is a ps2. they are loyal to the brand name no matter what they put out. kinda like people who still watch wwe.

actually namco WISELY is putting soul calibur II on the box. having the best version of that game is worth the price of admission alone.

 

Originally posted by: bryce

I saw GT3 and Twisted Metal: Black on the bargain rack at WalMart a few days ago. $20 or $25 apiece.

GT3, DMC, TMB, TTT, Jak and Dakter, and others are on the "classic" lineup, going for $20 each.

 

[Tallgeese]

Originally posted by: bryce

Originally posted by: TallGeese
I own an Xbox, but I would pick up a PS2 if the price was right for these games:

I saw GT3 and Twisted Metal: Black on the bargain rack at WalMart a few days ago. $20 or $25 apiece.

Whoops...should have said:
I would pick up a PS2 (if the console price was right) to play these games:

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CripplerCrossface

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Yeah, it's all about Morrowind, Unreal, Scortched Earth, and all of the other XBox games that are done better on the PC.

XBox has a bunch of PC ports; luckily for XBox fans, sooner or later, they'll get MGS, VF4, GTA3 and a bunch of other PS2 ports.

It is about PC ports, alot of people are tiring of upgrading computers just to play games. When I started playing PC games I never bought another console until the Xbox because it's a way for me to play PC games without the computer and on a Big Screen. I never got into Final Fantasy or Super Mario pokeball sunshine or whatever nintendo has out. I don't want PS2 type games on the Xbox, I want PC type titles so I don't have to keep shoving money into my PC.

tru.

yup, racing games are more fun on a 50"+ screen and what arcade fighter games do you have on pc the either or people generally are those that still get allowances, so they gotta get militant to justify their purchases

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Originally posted by: TallGeese

Originally posted by: bryce

Originally posted by: TallGeese
I own an Xbox, but I would pick up a PS2 if the price was right for these games:

I saw GT3 and Twisted Metal: Black on the bargain rack at WalMart a few days ago. $20 or $25 apiece.

Whoops...should have said:
I would pick up a PS2 (if the console price was right) to play these games:

I would too. They should drop the PS2 price to $150 and offer a combo package, then I'd buy one

 

[Ganryu]

Originally posted by: TallGeese
Strategically, here is what MS has done wrong with the Xbox:

* Over-reliance on hardware specs - This is not the PC market...the hardware mindset (if you can call it that) is different in the console market.
* Not pursuing exclusivity agreements - Rather than buying companies outright, they should be purchasing exclusivity contracts. Cheaper than owning studios. I do think Bungie was a BRILLIANT acquisition. Rare? Remains to be seen...altho an Xbox exclusive Perfect Dark would kick mucho bootay!
* Terrible hardware form factors - Sure, the "S" controller is here now, but first impressions matter (and STICK in people's heads). With all the SFF PC cases around, I find it LUDICROUS that MS couldn't design something that didn't strangely hearken back to the size of the Atari 2600.
* Playing catch-up - The Xbox console was released behind PS2. MS' Live is coming out AFTER the PS2 network adapter. MS more than anyone else should understand the importance of SHIPPING FIRST!

And here's where MS has executed successfully:

* They have captured the #2 spot on their first outing - A HUGE accomplishment, given the entrenched position of Nintendo.
* Been willing to correct mistakes, AND get serious when competing - Price cuts, replacing faulty units quickly, the "S" controller. Microsoft has not been arrogant in this new market.
* Played to their strengths - The Xbox does have some sweet features, and they are making the most of them.
* Online strategy - Make no mistake...this is gonna be HUGE to console gaming, just like it revolutionized PC gaming. MS has the best plan for this area...and here's why:

Let's look at the economic model of Xbox Live...

Now MS has publicly been announcing numbers of 150K signups for the Beta testing.
Let's even go so far as to halve that number...you're talking 75K players.
Figure at $50 a pop for the Live starter kits...
That's a cool $3.75 million from subscriptions for Year 1.

Now, let's look at Year 2 revenue...
Let's assume that MS charges $10 a month for Xbox Live.
We'll still assume a base of 75K players.
An even cooler $9 million in subscription revenue.

Bump that to $15 a month (unlikely tho), and you're talking $13.5 million in subscription fees alone.

Personally, I think the penetration rate for Y1will be more like 100K to 125K.
So figure somewhere between $5M~$6.25M Y1 subscription revenue
Figure $12M~15M Y2 revenue

If MS starts punching out subscriber numbers...LOOK OUT!
At 250K users: Y1=$12.5M; Y2=$30M (this is a valid target..less than a 10% penetration in North America)
At 500K users: Y1=$25M; Y2=$60M (more aggressive target for sure...a bit less than 20% penetration at current console numbers)

And that is continuing revenue, unlike the one-shot charge from Sony for the network adapter.
Now in North America, Sony has sold roughly 11.5 million PS2 units.
Assuming a 10% penetration for the Network Adapter (over 1 million adapters, mind you), Sony would stand to generate roughly $46M, one-time.
Not a small number to be sure, but compare that to MS' potential numbers, with only half the number of units sold...hmmmm.
Consider than MS' revenue is a subscription model....in the immortal words of Keith Jackson...

WHOA NELLY!

Now let's discuss this like adults...and leave the fanboy cr@p to another thread :frown:

Well, we have to wait and see on the numbers. You are giving numbers for a free beta. The actual numbers may be quite a bit lower. Also, how many games on each system support online play? Also you are giving some extremely high numbers. Sony can make 46 M with around 10% penetration, but 500K xbox is a much higher percentage. I don't know the exact numbers of units that are out there right now but i believe it was posted before that in terms of monthly sales, PS2 has 70% vs Xbox at 15-20%. BTW, I'm not a fanboy. I've seriously been considering buying an Xbox with the new deal but every time I go to the store I can't justify it since nothing really stands out.

 

[SOSTrooper]

Halo is coming to PC, i guess that pretty much leaves XBox with nothing... doesnt it?

When an exclusive debuts, means it'll only be on that system for a certain amount of time. Until the deal runs out, or when the company decides to make more money going multi-platform, the game is still exclusive enough to make people buy the system. If Halo were to come out on PC and XBox at the same time when XBox debuted, I truly honestly doubt XBox will sell more units than GameCube. If XBox didnt ride the first hype of Halo, it will not be where it is today. By it lacking quantity and quality games, and lacking a database of past fans (unlike Nintedno with their share of fans), XBox would've been a failure at start, but Microsoft did a smart move with Halo. PS2 still surpasses the quality and quantity of its game selection, and I do not see XBox passing it ever. XBox will certainly have great games to come in the upcoming years, but so are all the other systems out there. i currently own PS2 and GameCube and GBA and Dreamcast, will I ever buy XBox? I will, eventually, when more quality games come out for it. And no as a ex-hardcore PC gamer, I refuse to play FPS with controller, it is a disgrace to my ability to frag.

 

[Tallgeese]

Originally posted by: Ganryu
Well, we have to wait and see on the numbers. You are giving numbers for a free beta.

Actually, the beta isn't free. It's $50 clams...just like when Live is released officially.

Sony can make 46 M with around 10% penetration, but 500K xbox is a much higher percentage.

Less than 20% penetration, just in North America.

I don't know the exact numbers of units that are out there right now

North America: PS2 = 11.3M units, Xbox = 2.8M.

BTW, I'm not a fanboy.

Wouldn't assume you were. Just trying to quell some of the name-calling earlier.

 

[Tallgeese]

Originally posted by: mchammer187
Less cross platform more exclusives( actually all new system need this)

I think this is a very interesting (and true) point. There are VERY few exclusives compared to the "good old days." And in that case, many folks will choose the horsepower of the hardware.

 

[Tallgeese]

Originally posted by: Kilgor
It is about PC ports, alot of people are tiring of upgrading computers just to play games.

Also...a very good point!

 

[Ganryu]

Originally posted by: CripplerCrossface

Originally posted by: Ganryu

Originally posted by: CripplerCrossface

Originally posted by: Ganryu

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Ganryu
What's the problem with sequels if they are good? My point is that Xbox was a failure because it does not have any hot exclusive games, with the exception of Halo (which I don't even like) and a couple of others. Even Gamecube has promising games such as the metroid and zelda sequels and the staple mario. People keep mentioning Xbox live but the problem is that its going to cost a lot of money. 50 bucks a year + 10 bucks a month after that. PS2 is a one time $40 investment.

One time $40 investment? lol, you must be joking. Each software company needs to develop their own network and run their own servers. They are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. EA Sports will charge maybe $40/year and Square may charge $20/year etc... Each company can charge whatever they want, and they will charge...maybe even monthly.

Fine then, even if EA sports and square start charging money, that's going to be on top of the monthly fee you pay for xbox live.

you're quite uniformed. whatever xbox charges is going to be a base fee. they are using their own servers for all of the games. its also a lot easier cause u only have one bill to pay for online gaming.

Yes you are correct I made a mistake. However, with the monthly fee, I'm not sure how many users are going to pay for Xbox live. (I am referring to people who are making a decision to buy a new video game console). Regarding my argument about the games however, the point is that there is still are few killer games out for the system, that aren't available on either the computer or PS2 already.

youre prob right. there prob isnt too much for one to convert from ps2 to xbox right NOW. in a year we could not possibly be able to say the same because the system is simply not capable of the games that will come out for the xbox in the future. ps2 already hit its peak. xbox is just starting out and the only detriment to it is that it doesnt have namco, rockstar or square games. When ps2 comes down to $99 I will happily purchase it. but for one that doesnt have a next gen console, what besides gta would they buy it for? paying more money for a less powerful console that doesnt include a harddrive, ethernet, and two free games doenst make sense to me. IMO i dont think anyone can think of a good reason to buy the ps2 besides it is a ps2. they are loyal to the brand name no matter what they put out. kinda like people who still watch wwe.

actually namco WISELY is putting soul calibur II on the box. having the best version of that game is worth the price of admission alone.

There are so many good PS2 games (which were already mentioned) besides GTA that someone buying a new next gen game would want. The lack of the harddrive makes no difference at this stage because no games use it on the Xbox other than as a memory card. Buying a system for hardware is silly. Remember how much better PS1 did than dreamcast even though the latter had significantly better hardware. It's all about the games. Soul Calibur II is going to be great, and if they come out with 10 more killer games like that I will go out an buy an Xbox. I'm not loyal to any brand, just to good games. The only reason I can see for buying an Xbox right now is that you can play sports games in high definition. But since I already got Madden 2003 and NBA 2K3 for PS2 I'm going to hold off for another year for that. Madden 2003 doesn't even support Xbox live. I agree that sony should cut the price a bit, and I'm sure they will cut it closer to Christmas. You have to remember, that sony is still making money on the consoles, so Microsoft will not be able to cut prices without taking even a greater loss (of course they can afford it though). All in all I give credit to microsoft for having a first good try. Like I said in my first post in this thread it always takes them a couple of tries to get it right. My guess is that in a few years the dominant system will be the next generation of xbox.

 

[0roo0roo]

Remember how much better PS1 did than dreamcast even though the latter had significantly better hardware.

not true. from what i remember dreamcast was kinda a mess hardware wise sony only won because it was easy to program for.

now its kinda the other way around

ps2 can't really be called next generation anymore, its like.. um current generation at best i can't justify paying near or at xbox prices for it. i don't lose sleep over gta 3, i can play that on pc. i dont lose sleep over any of the other games either that being said, i think mgs 2 is overrated i hate 3rd person perspective limitation.

 

[SOSTrooper]

Microsoft will need a helluva hype boost in Japan if they want to succeed with their next generation of console. XBox may be doing good in terms of sales here in the states, but sadly, the year-old dead Dreamcast is outselling XBox over the summer in Japan. XBox is not a failure in Japan....it almost never existed to achieve failure. Japan will continue to ride the Sony bandwagon (simply cuz its a Japanese company) rather than a Microsoft's money train. Microsoft realizes it (why wouldnt they) and they will need a very strong campaign to convince Japan that their next generation system will not be a mere foot step of what XBox was. Why am I BS'ing so much about XBox in Japan? Because Japanese developers are the real brains when it comes to developing console games. American developers are good with PC games (primarily FPS and strategy). If the next generation of Microsoft's console does not get its massive Japanese developer support for exclusive games, it will fail again in Japan, and will only get its main support from American developers. All we'll end up again are sports games and FPS...

 

[CripplerCrossface]

I asked for a list earlier for 10 exclusive games and i have not gotten it yet. so the games have not been mentioned. I had way more fun with my dreamcast than I did with my ps1. Sometimes people just dont go for the best thing. most impressive thing about dc was that 70% of the games were good. the harddrive can be used as a media player, and to store mp3s plus the online games will assuredly make use for it. why pay $140 just to play ffXI?

 

[CripplerCrossface]

ganryu u have to widen your scope a little. if you are looking for just games and games only. ps2 wins hands down(right now). but for the overall package the xbox destroys the ps2, the GC and over 50% of pc's that are out there.
for a $500-$1000 invesment how much better can u get. about the only thing that the xbox doesnt do is pvr. Of course that will change

 

[Shantanu]

What makes you all think the console wars are over?

The next generation of consoles isn't coming out until 2005, in video game speak, that likely means 2006. The console wars have just begun.

Can you see the Playstation 2, with it's outdated technology, fading franchises, poor online strategy, costly upgrades/peripherals, and ugly graphics selling well into 2004? I can't.

Microsoft has gone from a 0 to a 16% global market share in the current generation of consoles in less than a year. Keep in mind also that the PS2 is sold in many more markets than the X-Box is.

There are PS2 owners who buy X-Box's, but there aren't many X-Box owners who are going to out to buy PS2's. All the market share that Sony loses to Microsoft is theirs to keep.

The PS2 is outselling the X-Box right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean the PS2 will outsell the X-Box next year, the year after that, and the year after that one.

The X-Box continues to build momentum. Microsoft has never failed or given up at anything before, and I doubt they will now.

If nothing else, they can always use their $60 billion in cash reserves to buy out all of Sony (Recording companies, movie studios, TV factories, walkman research labs, included) and have a good $20 billion left over

Cheers.

 

[Ganryu]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Remember how much better PS1 did than dreamcast even though the latter had significantly better hardware.

not true. from what i remember dreamcast was kinda a mess hardware wise sony only won because it was easy to program for.

now its kinda the other way around

ps2 can't really be called next generation anymore, its like.. um current generation at best i can't justify paying near or at xbox prices for it. i don't lose sleep over gta 3, i can play that on pc. i dont lose sleep over any of the other games either that being said, i think mgs 2 is overrated i hate 3rd person perspective limitation.

Sorry, current generation then. I said next generation because that's how people refer to the Xbox and I consider Xbox/Gamecube/PS2 to be in the same generation. You can play GTA3 now on the computer (one year after you could on the PS2). You can't play GTA4 on the computer. Dreamcast was actually a bit easier to program for because it used a version of Windows CE. In theory Xbox should be easier to program for as well because it's basically a PC. If you don't like 3rd person games that's fine, I don't like 1st person games on consoles.

 

[LH]

Anyone that thinks MS will need Japan in the future is not up to date on the growth of the games industry.

Unless there is another crash in the games industry or a a major slow down, which there isnt any sign of, by time Xbox2 is out, the NA market will be FOUR TO FIVE TIMES THE SIZE of Japan's gaming market. 4-5 TIMES. Thats Alot more than the current 2.25-2.5 times. The gaming market is in america, not Japan. Most Japanese games do not exist in America, very few make it state side.


If there is a major slow down in the gaming industry, it wont be MS pulling out, itl'l be Nintendo, atleast for home consoles, they'll probably keep GB and GBA, etc alive.

 

[SOSTrooper]

You got it It was in the first page. I think you or someone critiqued it too.

It is very difficult, and rather pointless, to list games for a system that you oppose. Pretty much everything I'll say you'll reply with "Naw I dont like it" or "Not that great." So what is the point? I'd like you to list some exclusive XBox games worth buying too. I can actually name a few myself. I'd like JSRF (loved the DC version), Halo (although I much dislike playing FPS with controller since I've been a hardcore FPS on PC), and uhh.... maybe DOA3 (which was my main reason why I wanted XBox at launch, but I chickened out from some reviews on the game's medicore quality). I dont like sports games, so dont bother listing them. Kinda pointless doesnt it? I dont think XBox is a failure at all here in the states, I may get it one day when I'm through with my PS2 and GameCube (and no i didnt buy the GC for me, its my sister's bday present along with Animal Crossing), or when Halo 2 comes out, whichever comes first.

Also saying XBox is a great system cuz of its powerful hardware, is only saying I've drawn the best painting because I used the best set of $200 paint. It does not work that way. You can paint a beautiful drawing with water color, or color pencil. A system's success is in its game, just like a painting's beauty lies with its content, not the brand of paint used. I've stolen this analogy from this one site that bashed the XBox rather quite harshly, which I did not agree. XBox has its moments, and will have more, but it will not outsell, or have enough fanbase, to claim that it is superior than PS2 in terms of success. Numbers show how successful a console system is, not the sheer power of its hardware or graphically perfect games.

 

[SOSTrooper]

Most Japanese games do not exist in America, very few make it state side.

Not true....well, true for XBox anyway Over half of PS2 games are from Japanese developers. The reason XBox has more America developed games is its lack of support from oversea developers. Imagine if XBox succeeded in Japan, it may have twice the amount of games right now, and in those will be several must get XBox exclusives! But no... it didnt happen, and probably may not happen anytime soon. Lets face it, XBox got less games and will always have less games is because it lacks that other half of of Japanese games that it needed.

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Originally posted by: LH
Anyone that thinks MS will need Japan in the future is not up to date on the growth of the games industry.

Unless there is another crash in the games industry or a a major slow down, which there isnt any sign of, by time Xbox2 is out, the NA market will be FOUR TO FIVE TIMES THE SIZE of Japan's gaming market. 4-5 TIMES. Thats Alot more than the current 2.25-2.5 times. The gaming market is in america, not Japan. Most Japanese games do not exist in America, very few make it state side.


If there is a major slow down in the gaming industry, it wont be MS pulling out, itl'l be Nintendo, atleast for home consoles, they'll probably keep GB and GBA, etc alive.

Japanese based developers need to get their collective heads out of their asses and start developing for the xbox. Neway, the xbox simply cannot succeed right now in japan because they prob see it as a sff comp and they already have plenty of those. they just live in a different way and the xbox seems to go against their ways. I dont think MS is too concerned about the Japanese market in this point in the game. If they are still selling 3,000 a week in two years they might just hit the proverbial panic button.

 

[Gunther]

I have to say that I LOVE the xbox hardware and was seriously consider getting on the 2 games + xbox 199 deal, but then I realized the only games I would probably play on the xbox were sega gt and doa volleyball. The main reason being, as many people in this thread have stated, the xbox just does not have the japanese developers support, and that is why I buy console systems. I do not want to play american games like sports games and fps because that is what my computer is for. See the way I look at the pc/console situation is this
pc - american games
xbox - american games
or
pc - american games
ps2 - japanese games
I want as much coverage as possible so obviously I took the ps2. I like japanese style rpgs a lot, so that's why I favor the ps2 more. But if xbox were to get great japanese rpgs AND the gran turismo series, I would so be a xbox fanboy in a second!
Imho I really don't think the 2 are comparable because they do tailor to two separate markets. I don't see xbox getting into the rpg genre, but I do see it excelling in the fps, sports, and fighting genres. While I see the ps2 doing very well in the rpg, action, platform, and racing genres(this is SOLEY based on gt3 ). So if you really think about it I really don't see why there is so much hatred between the two consoles(users), its like a fps addict telling a rpg lover that the ps2 sucks or vice a versa... yeah that makes so much sense. So lets all just get along and if you really want the best of everything, just get both

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Originally posted by: SOSTrooper
You got it It was in the first page. I think you or someone critiqued it too.

It is very difficult, and rather pointless, to list games for a system that you oppose. Pretty much everything I'll say you'll reply with "Naw I dont like it" or "Not that great." So what is the point? I'd like you to list some exclusive XBox games worth buying too. I can actually name a few myself. I'd like JSRF (loved the DC version), Halo (although I much dislike playing FPS with controller since I've been a hardcore FPS on PC), and uhh.... maybe DOA3 (which was my main reason why I wanted XBox at launch, but I chickened out from some reviews on the game's medicore quality). I dont like sports games, so dont bother listing them. Kinda pointless doesnt it? I dont think XBox is a failure at all here in the states, I may get it one day when I'm through with my PS2 and GameCube (and no i didnt buy the GC for me, its my sister's bday present along with Animal Crossing), or when Halo 2 comes out, whichever comes first.

Also saying XBox is a great system cuz of its powerful hardware, is only saying I've drawn the best painting because I used the best set of $200 paint. It does not work that way. You can paint a beautiful drawing with water color, or color pencil. A system's success is in its game, just like a painting's beauty lies with its content, not the brand of paint used. I've stolen this analogy from this one site that bashed the XBox rather quite harshly, which I did not agree. XBox has its moments, and will have more, but it will not outsell, or have enough fanbase, to claim that it is superior than PS2 in terms of success. Numbers show how successful a console system is, not the sheer power of its hardware or graphically perfect games.

I am not against the system itself. I am against paying $300 for it. I like the games on ps2. who doesnt. b4 i had the box i stayed over friends houses at insane hours just to play mgs2 and GTA3. now they bore me. anything that is not a year or two old on the ps2 i probably wont count. I wanted a list to see anyg ames that i missed out on that i might want to pick up.like wwe amackdown or something

 

[CripplerCrossface]

Originally posted by: Gunther
I have to say that I LOVE the xbox hardware and was seriously consider getting on the 2 games + xbox 199 deal, but then I realized the only games I would probably play on the xbox were sega gt and doa volleyball. The main reason being, as many people in this thread have stated, the xbox just does not have the japanese developers support, and that is why I buy console systems. I do not want to play american games like sports games and fps because that is what my computer is for. See the way I look at the pc/console situation is this
pc - american games
xbox - american games
or
pc - american games
ps2 - japanese games
I want as much coverage as possible so obviously I took the ps2. I like japanese style rpgs a lot, so that's why I favor the ps2 more. But if xbox were to get great japanese rpgs AND the gran turismo series, I would so be a xbox fanboy in a second!
Imho I really don't think the 2 are comparable because they do tailor to two separate markets. I don't see xbox getting into the rpg genre, but I do see it excelling in the fps, sports, and fighting genres. While I see the ps2 doing very well in the rpg, action, platform, and racing genres(this is SOLEY based on gt3 ). So if you really think about it I really don't see why there is so much hatred between the two consoles(users), its like a fps addict telling a rpg lover that the ps2 sucks or vice a versa... yeah that makes so much sense. So lets all just get along and if you really want the best of everything, just get both

if u can play those games on pc the more power to ya. but most people arent going to update their comps every year. People like u (/w powerful comps) prob shouldnt buy an xbox. u have no use for it.