Xbox Series X

[purbeast0]

That quick resume feature is pretty neat. I have 2 questions about it though.

1. Does it save the save state if you power off the console?
2. Does it also work across disc based games or is it digital only? All examples they have shown are digital games.

They show it in action here.

Xbox Series S: First Gameplay Footage Shown - IGN

Microsoft has shown off how Xbox Series X games will look on Series S, as well as how fast current gen games will load.

www.ign.com

But after watching that video, they are literally just showing like 99% current gen games that we can play right now if we wanted to. I just can't get excited for that and it gives me absolutely 0 reason to want one right now.

 

[quikah]

MS confirmed the $499 price for the Series X and $220 for the 1 TB expansion. Series X is also being released on Nov 10th.

Where did you see the seagate card price? The only place I saw $220 was from that gamespot leak, nothing official.

 

[Kenmitch]

Microsoft caved in on Series X pricing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303680112156524544

Xbox Series X Finally Gets a Price: Microsoft Reveals $499 Price Tag

Microsoft beats Sony to a price reveal on its next-gen flagship.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[purbeast0]

What do you mean they caved?

 

[quikah]

Having 65 million Xbox Live members doesn't really mean anything when it comes to how well they are doing financially because Xbox Live is a free service. Xbox Live Gold is what costs money and they specifically didn't give those numbers. Why? I don't know but they conveniently leave that out. I am an Xbox Live member and haven't turned on my X1 in months. I was a gold member for 10+ years since Halo 2 came out but got rid of it like 2 years into X1 life cycle since they simply had no games I cared about anymore.

That article also says it was updated in August of this year which is why I said it's more recent.

Honestly, I think you are trolling at this point. Check your facts please.

Q4 2020 results:
"Xbox content and services revenue increased 65% (up 68% in constant currency) "

"Gaming revenue increased $1.3 billion or 64%, driven by growth in Xbox content and services. Xbox content and services revenue increased $1.2 billion or 65%, primarily due to record engagement, including strength from third-party titles, as stay-at-home guidelines continued. Xbox hardware revenue increased 49%, primarily due to an increase in volume of consoles sold. "

 

[purbeast0]

Honestly, I think you are trolling at this point. Check your facts please.

Q4 2020 results:
"Xbox content and services revenue increased 65% (up 68% in constant currency) "

"Gaming revenue increased $1.3 billion or 64%, driven by growth in Xbox content and services. Xbox content and services revenue increased $1.2 billion or 65%, primarily due to record engagement, including strength from third-party titles, as stay-at-home guidelines continued. Xbox hardware revenue increased 49%, primarily due to an increase in volume of consoles sold. "

I mean they even say that the stay at home orders helped drive these numbers up. Being in a pandemic is not the norm.

Go look at total console sales. The Xbox One is a distant third this gen. It has significantly less console sales than even Switch which came out 3.5 years later.

Also since March, the Xbox One console is the only one that has been on shelves steadily because the demand is not there. Switches were nowhere to be found and are still hard to get and PS4 has also been in short supply. I'm not surprised that Xbox numbers rose considering it's the only console that was easy to find during quarantine.

 

[quikah]

EA Play added to Gamepass Ultimate and PC

I mean they even say that the stay at home orders helped drive these numbers up. Being in a pandemic is not the norm.

Go look at total console sales. The Xbox One is a distant third this gen. It has significantly less console sales than even Switch which came out 3.5 years later.

Also since March, the Xbox One console is the only one that has been on shelves steadily because the demand is not there. Switches were nowhere to be found and are still hard to get and PS4 has also been in short supply. I'm not surprised that Xbox numbers rose considering it's the only console that was easy to find during quarantine.

So you are just trolling. Got it.

 

[purbeast0]

EA Play added to Gamepass Ultimate and PC



So you are just trolling. Got it.

Sure if that is what you take away. I don't really care.

It's clear you have no clue how the lifespan of Xbox One played out.

 

[cmdrdredd]

My understanding is that we're not talking about games that were made for One and just adapted to Series at minimal cost. Because that's 100% OK. I hope no one expects developers to totally rewrite all the games.

I'm talking about new games - created already with Series in mind, using the dev kit.
I see no reason why this game would not use all the potential of Series hardware - even if it's also made to be playable on something older - even One S. And this is what @purbeast0 suggested in his posts.

That is just bonkers. Xbox consoles aren't even making money. They exist only to drive game sales. MS is making money on their own games and on commissions.

And as a side-effect, people on forums can spend evenings marveling how "great value" consoles are (in FLOPS/$).
But imagine how much a gaming PC would cost if component manufacturers could take 5-15% of game studios' revenue.

Not only this is not true from the financial point of view (as above), but totally against the whole strategy MS has right now.
As I said earlier: they're betting on a unified gaming platform. The idea is that you'll be able to play the same games, on the same profile (saves etc) on many different devices - locally or via streaming.

So yeah, you may have a different idea how to steer a global IT company. But they've been doing pretty well so far.

Switch is made by a company that is focused on games. It's a totally different business model, so it's tackled with a totally different approach.
Nintendo actually makes cash on the device itself. In case you haven't noticed, it's more expensive, made of cheaper components and many times smaller compared to big consoles.

I think you haven't read this topic carefully enough to make such a comment.

I’ve come to the conclusion you don’t know what you are talking about and ignoring everything that is said. It’s either that or somehow you work for Microsoft and can’t rationalize how the console gaming industry actually works.

You have to sell hardware to sell games. How did you think it works? If you can’t sell your console you can’t sell customers any games, it’s simple. You don’t even make sense. You are also suggesting that developers won’t be lazy. I’m telling you based on years of video game history that they will be if they are allowed to be. In the case of the Xbox console they can be lazy if all the games work in every Xbox. They will write a game for the old console because of the install base then patch on some tweaks for the newer hardware. You aren’t getting a tailor made experience on the newest and highest end hardware that way. Having multiple iterations of the console with varying hardware will inevitably lead to this path for a lot of titles. Take the Halo example mentioned a few times above. It is painfully obvious that it isn’t being tailor made for the new hardware, this is a first party title and arguably the biggest property Microsoft has. I don’t want to call Halo Microsoft’s Mario but it’s as close as I can think of to a comparison.

You have continually mentioned backward compatibility as some boon to Microsoft while lauding the fact that 7 year old hardware will play new titles. That’s not backwards compatibility at all. So telling me I don’t know what’s going on is pretty bold. Backwards compatibility is as I said, new hardware playing your old library. The ps3 playing ps2 titles for example. If all the games work on any Xbox one then you never really have any “Xbox series” exclusives.

It also doesn’t matter what you say about the switch hardware and costs. I’m pointing out the obvious you are not paying attention to. Switches are selling out and outselling more powerful hardware all because it has a library of titles nobody else has. You have to buy a switch to play certain games. Just like you have to buy a PS5 to play certain games. Maybe the ps5 will play ps4 titles but in order to play those ps5 games, you need a ps5. If Microsoft allows games to work on every version of the Xbox, they aren’t going to be selling new hardware and it will hurt in the long run. Games will, based on experience, be catered to the lowest common denominator which is now 7 years old. To use your words that “I hope nobody expects developers to rewrite all their games”. No, I expect them to write their new games specifically for the new hardware. Not for old hardware and try to patch in a few effects and a higher resolution. There is more to the new consoles than ray tracing and better 4K performance.

 

[quikah]

Sure if that is what you take away. I don't really care.

It's clear you have no clue how the lifespan of Xbox One played out.

I know exactly how it is. You have pretty much repeated the same points since this thread started, it is tiring. Just talk about the current news instead of rehashing the same thing over and over and over.

 

[Aikouka]

1. Does it save the save state if you power off the console?

From my understanding, yes. The save state works by using the SSD. It's sort of like Hibernate on a computer, which dumps the RAM contents to the drive. The only thing is that there's nothing to say that Microsoft doesn't clear that "cache" upon shutdown... so I can't guarantee it, but that's my understanding.

2. Does it also work across disc based games or is it digital only? All examples they have shown are digital games.

The source shouldn't matter. My guess is that it's just far easier to display swapping games using digital games because you don't have to swap the disc to do it.

But after watching that video, they are literally just showing like 99% current gen games that we can play right now if we wanted to. I just can't get excited for that and it gives me absolutely 0 reason to want one right now.

To be honest, I think both consoles have a lack of games available at launch. Microsoft was supposed to have Halo, which at least gave them something that their fanbase would enjoy. So, yeah... it's pretty much for people that want to play a game like Cyberpunk 2077 or Assassin's Creed Valhalla with better graphics or a higher framerate. I think Sony has a bit of an advantage here since they at least have something to show off (Ratchet & Clank and Spider-Man); however, while the games look good, it is a very small line-up.

I think Microsoft's biggest issue is that they really only started acquiring some studios to work on titles for them. They picked up some notable names last year; however, that's just not enough time for those studios to pump out a new title. My take is that they really should've done better to organize their existing studios to ensure that there was at least something like a Forza title ready for launch.

 

[purbeast0]

From my understanding, yes. The save state works by using the SSD. It's sort of like Hibernate on a computer, which dumps the RAM contents to the drive. The only thing is that there's nothing to say that Microsoft doesn't clear that "cache" upon shutdown... so I can't guarantee it, but that's my understanding.



The source shouldn't matter. My guess is that it's just far easier to display swapping games using digital games because you don't have to swap the disc to do it.



To be honest, I think both consoles have a lack of games available at launch. Microsoft was supposed to have Halo, which at least gave them something that their fanbase would enjoy. So, yeah... it's pretty much for people that want to play a game like Cyberpunk 2077 or Assassin's Creed Valhalla with better graphics or a higher framerate. I think Sony has a bit of an advantage here since they at least have something to show off (Ratchet & Clank and Spider-Man); however, while the games look good, it is a very small line-up.

I think Microsoft's biggest issue is that they really only started acquiring some studios to work on titles for them. They picked up some notable names last year; however, that's just not enough time for those studios to pump out a new title. My take is that they really should've done better to organize their existing studios to ensure that there was at least something like a Forza title ready for launch.

I'm not holding my hopes that Sony's launch lineup is going to be great either. We don't have a clue yet what launch titles the PS5 has. We just know that Ratchet and Clank is "launch window" so that probably won't be available at launch. That is the 1 game that has me buying a PS5. I'm still not sure if I will get it at launch or not though it depends what else there is. And if R&C is coming out within 3 months of launch, I'll probably just get one at launch as long as I can preorder one, because I'd rather be guaranteed to have one than not by the time R&C comes out.

 

[Aikouka]

I'm not holding my hopes that Sony's launch lineup is going to be great either. We don't have a clue yet what launch titles the PS5 has. We just know that Ratchet and Clank is "launch window" so that probably won't be available at launch. That is the 1 game that has me buying a PS5. I'm still not sure if I will get it at launch or not though it depends what else there is. And if R&C is coming out within 3 months of launch, I'll probably just get one at launch as long as I can preorder one, because I'd rather be guaranteed to have one than not by the time R&C comes out.

It makes me wonder if this generation may see one of the most disappointing launches of all. I'm trying to think of the last time we had something that was so lackluster, and the one that comes to mind was the Nintendo 64. (Albeit, releasing with Super Mario 64 was likely enough for most people.)

I'm tempted to pick up Ratchet & Clank too, but I think what disappoints me the most about the PS5 is the potential lower percentage of backwards compatible PS4 titles. (At least that being a potential outcome from Sony's tight-lipped nature on the subject.) Whenever I upgrade a console, I'll usually move the older one to my room. So, my hope was to put a PS5 in the living room and my PS4 Pro in my room, and for it to allow me to play (most) PS4 games in either location. (I currently have a Slim PS3 in my room.)

 

[purbeast0]

It makes me wonder if this generation may see one of the most disappointing launches of all. I'm trying to think of the last time we had something that was so lackluster, and the one that comes to mind was the Nintendo 64. (Albeit, releasing with Super Mario 64 was likely enough for most people.)

I'm tempted to pick up Ratchet & Clank too, but I think what disappoints me the most about the PS5 is the potential lower percentage of backwards compatible PS4 titles. (At least that being a potential outcome from Sony's tight-lipped nature on the subject.) Whenever I upgrade a console, I'll usually move the older one to my room. So, my hope was to put a PS5 in the living room and my PS4 Pro in my room, and for it to allow me to play (most) PS4 games in either location. (I currently have a Slim PS3 in my room.)

I'd say launch lineups generally speaking are pretty poor more than they are good. It's usually like some 1st gen "next gen" games that don't look much better than current gen and then a bunch of games that are on the current gen and next gen.

360 had a pretty good lineup. That's the one I can remember that was actually pretty good recently. Nintendo usually has at least 1 staple franchise which is enough for most people.

PS3 and PS4 were pretty lackluster. PS2 was as well but I remember Madden being so much different and it was such an upgrade than what we had seen. They had Tekken Tag also which was great.

Xbox One had a pretty terrible launch. I mean with the Kinect packed in that nobody wanted that was discontinued shortly thereafter. The only game I got at launch was Killer Instinct which was like 75% complete and a DLC game that was $20. I think the only other game I got I ended up buying used and it was Ryse. It was cool but far from a system seller lol.

I won my PS4 and it came with Knack and I don't even remember what the first game I bought for it was. Knack was extremely mediocre and had it not been a launch title, nobody would have talked about it.

 

[Saylick]

Where did you see the seagate card price? The only place I saw $220 was from that gamespot leak, nothing official.

Yeah, the expansion card needs to be $150 tops so that it's priced to sell. High-end NVMe drives are ~13c/GB today (or about $135 per 1 TB), and there's really no need to make a ton of margin on this product because MS should entice people to go all-digital since profit margins are higher for digital sales.

 

[quikah]

Yeah, the expansion card needs to be $150 tops so that it's priced to sell. High-end NVMe drives are ~13c/GB today (or about $135 per 1 TB), and there's really no need to make a ton of margin on this product because MS should entice people to go all-digital since profit margins are higher for digital sales.

1TB 970 EVO is ~$180, so not that far off. I hate to see what the PS5 ones are going to be. Nothing currently available supports their requirements.

 

[piokos]

I’ve come to the conclusion you don’t know what you are talking about and ignoring everything that is said. It’s either that or somehow you work for Microsoft and can’t rationalize how the console gaming industry actually works.

You know... the "you probably work for the company you defend" argument is usually where I stop being interested in a discussion. But you write such a long piece I just wanted you to feel appreciated. As one of the active commenters like to say, I don't feel EXCITED.

You have to sell hardware to sell games. How did you think it works?

Ubisoft sells quite a few games without making any hardware.

You have continually mentioned backward compatibility as some boon to Microsoft while lauding the fact that 7 year old hardware will play new titles. That’s not backwards compatibility at all. So telling me I don’t know what’s going on is pretty bold. Backwards compatibility is as I said, new hardware playing your old library. The ps3 playing ps2 titles for example. If all the games work on any Xbox one then you never really have any “Xbox series” exclusives.

I have continually been saying that Xbox is a complex service spanning multiple devices and generations. That's how MS wants it to work and - personally - that's how I want gaming to work.
Whereas some people here probably prefer consoles how they worked in the past. You bought a box, you've inserted a cartridge with highly optimized game and you enjoyed new titles with every new platform. Switch is a perfect modern rendition of this approach.

So the news I have is: that's not coming back in the MS ecosystem. For now you can find a safe haven in either Sony or Nintendo platforms, but they will probably follow suit in a few years.
And by "probably" I mean: Sony needs a bit more time and Nintendo will probably go bankrupt anyway as soon as people stop buying Switch.

Seriously, these Xbox Series discussions look like a copy of cloud gaming discussions. I bet the same people would be opposing.

Stop winning. It's just gaming.
And it should be a source of fun and relax. If someone is constantly stressed by where gaming is going (let alone feeling EXCITED), why bother at all? The are so many other hobbies - most of them healthier, some cheaper.

Switches are selling out and outselling more powerful hardware all because it has a library of titles nobody else has.

Yes. Because that's Nintendo's idea for the Switch platform. And MS has a different idea of the Xbox platform. And currently they both work pretty well. It's just like you like one more than another.

The reality is that:
- Nintendo sells more consoles, with higher average selling price,
- Nintendo sells way more own games, probably also with higher average selling price.
And the end result is that the business revenue is almost the same.
In FY 2019 total Nintendo revenue was $10.8B, while Microsoft's gaming segment also made around $11B.

So what I suggest right now is:
1. Stop talking about Switch so much - it's a good product with (clearly) very devoted fan base. But there are better places to praise it.
2. Seriously, don't try to tackle me with business model topics or profitability. And if you think you know how to improve MS Xbox strategy, you're just wasting your time in this topic. Try here: https://careers.microsoft.com/

 

[cmdrdredd]

You know... the "you probably work for the company you defend" argument is usually where I stop being interested in a discussion. But you write such a long piece I just wanted you to feel appreciated. As one of the active commenters like to say, I don't feel EXCITED.

Ubisoft sells quite a few games without making any hardware.

I have continually been saying that Xbox is a complex service spanning multiple devices and generations. That's how MS wants it to work and - personally - that's how I want gaming to work.
Whereas some people here probably prefer consoles how they worked in the past. You bought a box, you've inserted a cartridge with highly optimized game and you enjoyed new titles with every new platform. Switch is a perfect modern rendition of this approach.

So the news I have is: that's not coming back in the MS ecosystem. For now you can find a safe haven in either Sony or Nintendo platforms, but they will probably follow suit in a few years.
And by "probably" I mean: Sony needs a bit more time and Nintendo will probably go bankrupt anyway as soon as people stop buying Switch.

Seriously, these Xbox Series discussions look like a copy of cloud gaming discussions. I bet the same people would be opposing.

Stop winning. It's just gaming.
And it should be a source of fun and relax. If someone is constantly stressed by where gaming is going (let alone feeling EXCITED), why bother at all? The are so many other hobbies - most of them healthier, some cheaper.

Yes. Because that's Nintendo's idea for the Switch platform. And MS has a different idea of the Xbox platform. And currently they both work pretty well. It's just like you like one more than another.

The reality is that:
- Nintendo sells more consoles, with higher average selling price,
- Nintendo sells way more own games, probably also with higher average selling price.
And the end result is that the business revenue is almost the same.
In FY 2019 total Nintendo revenue was $10.8B, while Microsoft's gaming segment also made around $11B.

So what I suggest right now is:
1. Stop talking about Switch so much - it's a good product with (clearly) very devoted fan base. But there are better places to praise it.
2. Seriously, don't try to tackle me with business model topics or profitability. And if you think you know how to improve MS Xbox strategy, you're just wasting your time in this topic. Try here: https://careers.microsoft.com/

We are done. You don’t seem to understand gaming. I used the “you must work for company x” because you seem to have a vested interest in defending what so many have said is a bad idea and how Microsoft is doing poorly in the console space.

Companies like Ubisoft wouldn’t sell any games without a platform and I don’t think you realize there are license fees paid for 3rd party titles to be released on a platform either which Microsoft is getting less than everyone else. I’ve been using the switch as an example because it’s the exact model of how successful console gaming works, make a system and bring games onto it that people want. It worked for Sony in the past too. Microsoft is not doing any of the things that are known to be successful. If you think Nintendo will go bankrupt you are out of your mind. Nintendo is rolling in cash

 

[piokos]

We are done. You don’t seem to understand gaming.

Funny you say this on a forum that is - by definition - so far away from how casual gaming looks.
I mean: most people here don't like cloud streaming, don't like smartphone games, don't like micropayments etc.
And it's all fine and understandable. That's how avid PC/console gamers think. Nothing wrong with that.

I look at this from a business perspective. And all MS does makes so much sense.
And I also look at this from a perspective of a twice-a-week couch gamer. And the new Xbox - especially S - is pretty much perfect for my needs.

So what you actually mean is: I don't understand avid (hardcore?) gaming in 2020. That's absolutely true. I admit it.
I don't game much. I don't understand the video streaming craze. I have absolutely nothing RGB. I'm sitting on a normal office chair. I use a slim BT keyboard.
And when you criticize these consoles, what you actually mean is: they may not be very interesting for an avid gamer (the one I don't understand) - a typical anandtech forum member. And that is probably correct as well.

But outside of this niche, Xbox Series S/X will be a hit and you'll just keep being confused why people even buy it.

I used the “you must work for company x” because you seem to have a vested interest in defending what so many have said is a bad idea and how Microsoft is doing poorly in the console space.

I'm defending what I think and what I like. Why would I change my mind just because others think otherwise? That would be pretty stupid.

Companies like Ubisoft wouldn’t sell any games without a platform

But they don't sell hardware. And the argument was that MS won't sell games because - presumably - new Xboxes won't sell.

I’ve been using the switch as an example because it’s the exact model of how successful console gaming works, make a system and bring games onto it that people want.

And I admit that Switch is a good product. But it's for a different client group.
I can totally see why it's so interesting for PC gamers - given that it brings totally different user experience and a totally different set of games.
Whereas in Xbox discussion you see comments like "why don't people just game on a PC".

Also, I admit I have an issue with Switch from a business perspective. Because it's responsible for 85-90% of Nintendo's revenue right now.

Personally... well, it's probably just not for me. Today, I would prefer Wii (with the wacky controller and family games). But when Wii was around, I was still gaming at least few hours a day (mostly RPG and RTS) and Wii seemed dull.

I look at "best selling Switch games":

List of best-selling Nintendo Switch video games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically it's:
- Mario (I played Super Mario Bros., no contact beyond that)
- Pokemon (again: I played the original GameBoy games - emulated on a phone)
- titles I've seen for the first time (Xenoblade?)

Why would I buy into that?

Microsoft is not doing any of the things that are known to be successful.

What...? Windows, for starters?

 

[Aikouka]

Looks like another awkward pre-order situation. Amazon and Best Buy didn't go live at the predetermined time, and similar to the PS5 pre-order, most sites just aren't working well. I don't know if it's just faulty memory, but I can't recall the Xbox One or PlayStation 4 pre-orders being this bad. I just pre-ordered both from Amazon with relative ease.

 

[purbeast0]

I got one from Target.

Here is direct link to Amazon from the search results for the Series X

Amazon.com: Xbox Series X: Video Games

Amazon.com: Xbox Series X: Video Games

www.amazon.com

 

[Aikouka]

I got one from Target.

Same. It took me almost 50 minutes of trying though.

 

[purbeast0]

Same. It took me almost 50 minutes of trying though.

I just got another one at Amazon. I'll probably cancel my targret order if no friends want it since it's not launch day arrival, plus I still am on the fence about keeping it lol.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Camped GameStop before 8am. They got 3 Series X and 2 series S. Me and two other guys were the only ones there until around 9:30 and after everyone heard the X was gone they left. Nobody wanted the S. I’m sure they will sell them today but I thought there would be a little interest in it for $300. I think everyone who showed up was a hardcore gamer and wanted to get the X. Anyway I got an X. Wanted a pa5 but at least I got something. Ps5 I’ll still hunt down at some point.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Looks like another awkward pre-order situation. Amazon and Best Buy didn't go live at the predetermined time, and similar to the PS5 pre-order, most sites just aren't working well. I don't know if it's just faulty memory, but I can't recall the Xbox One or PlayStation 4 pre-orders being this bad. I just pre-ordered both from Amazon with relative ease.

The availability was better for PS4 and Xbox one partially because B&M stores were taking huge amounts of preorders and not trying on everything being done online. If I learned anything it’s that the online stores cannot handle the type of traffic gaming devices generate for a preorder/launch. They have to have an in-store presence as well to alleviate some traffic. If this were last year, GameStop stores and Best Buy stores would be taking 70+ pre-orders in store.