Xbox Series X

[Saylick]

People apparently can't be bothered to read One and Series, what makes you think they can read 2, 3, etc?

If they can read the price, they can read 2, 3, etc. We don't see people confusing different Playstation generations with each other, do we?

 

[piokos]

Well in theory there should be no load times at all on games built FOR the SSD.

How would that even be possible?

You still need a few seconds just to feel the RAM (which console games will do whenever possible) and spin up the GPU.

If they can read the price, they can read 2, 3, etc. We don't see people confusing different Playstation generations with each other, do we?

I may not remember this too well, but wasn't there a big confusion with PS4/Slim/Pro? Because Pro looked like the original and people kept buying the old model instead?

One says "Series" and one says "One". Seriously, it's a different word. And it's a different object on the photo. If someone can't distinguish them properly when buying online, daily grocery shopping must be a nightmare.

The only problem here is people just don't give a f... about using correct names. And if you don't name stuff correctly, you're making communication errors.
AMD's Zen/Ryzen naming convention isn't perfect either, but there's absolutely no excuse for people on PC enthusiast forums who can't memorize it properly. And yes - after 3 years of these chips coming out - people still mix up Zen and Ryzen generations.

And yeah, we measure power in watts and we write it with capital W. This is also beyond many on this (and other) PC forums - despite power consumption being one of the most common topics.

 

[purbeast0]

How would that even be possible?

You still need a few seconds just to feel the RAM (which console games will do whenever possible) and spin up the GPU.

It may just be for the PS5 SSD but I assumed it was also possible for Series X. The PS5 HDD is faster though so maybe not.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

The 5 bullet points a little bit down is what I was referring to where it says "no load times".

 

[piokos]

It may just be for the PS5 SSD but I assumed it was also possible for Series X. The PS5 HDD is faster though so maybe not.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

The 5 bullet points a little bit down is what I was referring to where it says "no load times".

You must be a fan of Sony marketing team...

There's no way PS5 will "boot in a second". It make wake up in a second. It may show something interactive after a second. Boot - nope. Not to a state when you can launch a game.

I also really doubt games will launch in a second - unless, again, it means waking up stopped VMs rather than starting the whole program.
Disk speed is just one of the factors. Running programs just takes time.
Existing consoles keep can keep the last gaming session in RAM, so it can be brought back "instantly". But this is purged when you launch a different game.

Maybe, thanks to the very fast SSD, Sony will be able to keep a few sessions dumped onto the hard drive. That would be great for sure (and possible on Xbox too, just a little slower).


Having "no load screens", on the other hand, is more about game design than hardware performance.
Do you know why there's a long tunnel, an elevator or some funky animation between game locations? It's there to make you feel like you're still gaming. But actually you're just looking at something barely more interactive than "please wait".
For the same reason many games offer save/spawn locations in rooms or houses - ideally far away from the entrance (GTA V?). The 10s it takes to exit the cramped space and enter a larger location is the bonus time developers gave the console to load more data.
If there was a game for PS5 that lets you teleport to any point in the game, you'd see a loading screen for sure.

The interview mentions the idea of rotating your view in games and streaming textures, which I've already seen at least 3 times in different places, so Cerny must be very proud of the concept:
"If it takes half a second to turn, that's 4GB of compressed data you can load"
But such game design also implies that instant look behind feature has to be dropped completely (and it's pretty common in racing games or 3rd person adventure/shooters).

But sure, the combination of fast hardware and careful game design will create an effect of continuous gaming. And that's great for sure.

 

[purbeast0]

You must be a fan of Sony marketing team...

There's no way PS5 will "boot in a second". It make wake up in a second. It may show something interactive after a second. Boot - nope. Not to a state when you can launch a game.

I also really doubt games will launch in a second - unless, again, it means waking up stopped VMs rather than starting the whole program.
Disk speed is just one of the factors. Running programs just takes time.
Existing consoles keep can keep the last gaming session in RAM, so it can be brought back "instantly". But this is purged when you launch a different game.

Maybe, thanks to the very fast SSD, Sony will be able to keep a few sessions dumped onto the hard drive. That would be great for sure (and possible on Xbox too, just a little slower).


Having "no load screens", on the other hand, is more about game design than hardware performance.
Do you know why there's a long tunnel, an elevator or some funky animation between game locations? It's there to make you feel like you're still gaming. But actually you're just looking at something barely more interactive than "please wait".
For the same reason many games offer save/spawn locations in rooms or houses - ideally far away from the entrance (GTA V?). The 10s it takes to exit the cramped space and enter a larger location is the bonus time developers gave the console to load more data.
If there was a game for PS5 that lets you teleport to any point in the game, you'd see a loading screen for sure.

The interview mentions the idea of rotating your view in games and streaming textures, which I've already seen at least 3 times in different places, so Cerny must be very proud of the concept:
"If it takes half a second to turn, that's 4GB of compressed data you can load"
But such game design also implies that instant look behind feature has to be dropped completely (and it's pretty common in racing games or 3rd person adventure/shooters).

But sure, the combination of fast hardware and careful game design will create an effect of continuous gaming. And that's great for sure.

Jesus christ you guys love to throw the fanboy term around when anything pro-sony or not pro-xbox is said.

Think whatever you want I really don't care.

Just passing along information.

 

[purbeast0]

Xbox showcase going on at TGS right now.

 

[quikah]

If they can read the price, they can read 2, 3, etc. We don't see people confusing different Playstation generations with each other, do we?

When you put Xbox in front it makes people stupid I guess.

The name is different and the product looks completely different, it is not confusing. Dumb? Sure, especially in non English markets.

You want confusing, try buying an iPad case. Same name for distinct products that look almost identical.

 

[quikah]

It may just be for the PS5 SSD but I assumed it was also possible for Series X. The PS5 HDD is faster though so maybe not.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

The 5 bullet points a little bit down is what I was referring to where it says "no load times".

There are load screens in Ratchet and Clank, so when they say 'no' they mean kind of short I guess.

 

[purbeast0]

There are load screens in Ratchet and Clank, so when they say 'no' they mean kind of short I guess.

Well I said "in theory" which as we know from history isn't usually what happens in actual real world scenarios.

I'm not sure what load screens you were referring to I've watched the demo multiple times and haven't seen a load screen.

 

[purbeast0]

So looks like it's confirmed the add-on storage will be $220.

Xbox Series X/S 1TB expandable storage costs $220

UPDATE 4pm UK: Microsoft has now confirmed UK pricing for its official Series X/S 1TB expandable storage - and it's £22…

www.eurogamer.net

You can preorder at Best Buy from the link in that article too.

I don't know if it was known yet but you can play Xbox One/360 games on Series X on any external HDD but you won't get the faster load times (obviously). Still good to know you don't have to put them on the main drive. And on the flipside as expected, Series X games have to be on the SSD to run.

 

[quikah]

Well I said "in theory" which as we know from history isn't usually what happens in actual real world scenarios.

I'm not sure what load screens you were referring to I've watched the demo multiple times and haven't seen a load screen.

The world warping sequence where he goes to different worlds , each portal goes to a ~1-2 second load screen before you get to the next world.

 

[purbeast0]

The world warping sequence where he goes to different worlds , each portal goes to a ~1-2 second load screen before you get to the next world.

Eh I don't consider that a loading screen. It's happening in real time and it looks like the user still has control of it. It looks like it's there for effect like you are warping through all these worlds and end up in the overworld then it randomly takes you to another world.

Fact of the matter is neither of us know if it's a "loading" screen. If it is it's a great trick to make it appear as there is no loading screen. To me that doesn't 'look' like a loading screen at all.

 

[quikah]

Eh I don't consider that a loading screen. It's happening in real time and it looks like the user still has control of it. It looks like it's there for effect like you are warping through all these worlds and end up in the overworld then it randomly takes you to another world.

Fact of the matter is neither of us know if it's a "loading" screen. If it is it's a great trick to make it appear as there is no loading screen. To me that doesn't 'look' like a loading screen at all.

Sure.

Let me put it this way. There is 16GB of memory in the system. The SSD has a 5GB/s bandwidth. You can rewrite the entire memory in ~3.5 seconds. If you are swapping worlds you need to flush the memory and load the new assets, so it will take around 2-3 seconds depending on how big the assets are. It is PHYSICALLY impossible for there to be zero load times. It is very fast, but please stay in reality, there is enough hyperbole around these consoles already.

 

[purbeast0]

Sure.

Let me put it this way. There is 16GB of memory in the system. The SSD has a 5GB/s bandwidth. You can rewrite the entire memory in ~3.5 seconds. If you are swapping worlds you need to flush the memory and load the new assets, so it will take around 2-3 seconds depending on how big the assets are. It is PHYSICALLY impossible for there to be zero load times. It is very fast, but please stay in reality, there is enough hyperbole around these consoles already.

You are assuming the worlds are 16GB.

What if they are smaller and say 5GB and they are preloaded prior to the transition in game?

What if they are 4GB and they have 3 worlds loaded in memory at once so they can transition between them at will? And then start flushing out the memory of ones that are already passed and load up new ones while in the current one?

We know nothing of the size or the tricks and development techniques being used. If they are loading stuff behind the scenes while other stuff is happening, then there is the appearance of zero load time and transition between worlds.

It's all about the appearance of zero load time. Of course there has to be some load time due to physics as you mention, especially at the initial startup of the game. As long as to the end user it appears there is zero load time or as minimal as possible, that is really all that matters.

As someone who does web development I know all about different tricks to make the user think that stuff happens instantly when behind the scenes there is a lot more going on.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don’t care about zero load times. I care about counting load times in seconds, not “I can go get a beer before it loads” lol

 

[piokos]

I don’t care about zero load times. I care about counting load times in seconds, not “I can go get a beer before it loads” lol

We all do. And both new Xbox and PS offer that.
But @purbeast0 jumps around the console topics and tries to prove PS5 superiority with the "no load screens" gimmick.

Eh I don't consider that a loading screen. It's happening in real time and it looks like the user still has control of it. It looks like it's there for effect like you are warping through all these worlds and end up in the overworld then it randomly takes you to another world.

Fact of the matter is neither of us know if it's a "loading" screen. If it is it's a great trick to make it appear as there is no loading screen. To me that doesn't 'look' like a loading screen at all.

So now "loading screen" is only what you consider one. Nice.

This has nothing to do with PS5 magical design, like you're trying to convince yourself.
It's just a game design principle that developers have used for a long time. And Sony probably can enforce it on exclusives - just in case.
A limited location with pointless activity that could have been a "please wait" - yet giving a sense of interaction to fool the user.
In this game it's flying through space, in something else it's a long corridor or an elevator.

If this particular game was run on PS4, the flying would simply take 5 minutes instead of 3 seconds.
If run on Xbox Series, it could be 5 seconds instead of 3. Not the end of the world.

Yet, you keep repeating physically impossible ideas like "Well in theory there should be no load times at all on games built FOR the SSD.", because you've seen that in some Sony marketing material.
What's the point of all that? :/

 

[purbeast0]

n/m some of you guys are pointless to try and have discussions with.

 

[piokos]

Oh so you know those are loading screens for a fact. I didn't realize you work for Insomniac. Can you tell us when you guys are going to be releasing the game? I know it's launch window but I'm talking specifics. Thanks.

You've now moved to defending the idea of not having a "loading screen" meaning something totally static?
OK, I'll give you that just for the sake of this discussion moving forward.

There is no "loading screen" per se. It's replaced by a very simplified gaming environment that applies very low load to the machine. In the meantime, console uses these few seconds to totally focus on fetching and building the next map.
And you probably can't do anything useful anyway. There is no progress in the gameplay. In some games you can't even save the game in such a location.

But few posts back you didn't use the term "loading screen". This is something we (unfortunately) mentioned.

You used "loading time" and you kept defending the idea that the magic PS5 builds the map instantly thanks to it's awesome SSD.
Once again, you:

Well in theory there should be no load times at all on games built FOR the SSD.

And my answer to that (also already mentioned) is: this kind of hidden loading can be implemented on any hardware. It has been done in multiple games in the past. You just haven't noticed (which means it worked ).

I'm trying to convince you Sony hasn't done anything revolutionary in PS5 when it comes to "loading". They just used a very fast SSD, so these "loading times" will be MANY times shorter than on existing consoles, but probably very similar to what we'll experience on the Xbox Series X.
Is it working or not?

 

[LikeLinus]

Jesus christ you guys love to throw the fanboy term around when anything pro-sony or not pro-xbox is said.

Think whatever you want I really don't care.

Just passing along information.

No, it's because it's glaringly obvious.

Someone post a demo of an Xbox One vs Xbox Series X load times and you say,

"Yeah but that's old and no way that is running on actual hardware back in March."

Yet you quote an article, from March, that talks about Sony's SSD.

"It may just be for the PS5 SSD but I assumed it was also possible for Series X. The PS5 HDD is faster though so maybe not."

"The 5 bullet points a little bit down is what I was referring to where it says "no load times"."

In your own words:
"Prototype hardware != actual real hardware in final version "

So why exactly are you saying MS demo is not real because it's not final hardware, but somehow you seem to know that PS5 SSD is faster and think it will load games and boot instantly?

LOL

 

[purbeast0]

No, it's because it's glaringly obvious.

Someone post a demo of an Xbox One vs Xbox Series X load times and you say,

"Yeah but that's old and no way that is running on actual hardware back in March."

Yet you quote an article, from March, that talks about Sony's SSD.

"It may just be for the PS5 SSD but I assumed it was also possible for Series X. The PS5 HDD is faster though so maybe not."

"The 5 bullet points a little bit down is what I was referring to where it says "no load times"."

In your own words:
"Prototype hardware != actual real hardware in final version "

So why exactly are you saying MS demo is not real because it's not final hardware, but somehow you seem to know that PS5 SSD is faster and think it will load games and boot instantly?

LOL

Everything you quoted of me is nothing but facts.

Was that from a video in March running on non-final hardware? Yes.

Is the PS5 HDD faster than Xbox Series X? Yes

Are there 5 bullet points where it says the PS5 SSD has no load times? Yes.

Is prototype hardware not the same as final hardware? Yes.

Sorry if that's hard for your small minded brain to grasp.

 

[LikeLinus]

Everything you quoted of me is nothing but facts.

Was that from a video in March running on non-final hardware? Yes.

Is the PS5 HDD faster than Xbox Series X? Yes

Are there 5 bullet points where it says the PS5 SSD has no load times? Yes.

Is prototype hardware not the same as final hardware? Yes.

Sorry if that's hard for your small minded brain to grasp.

Wow, you completely missed the point.

But, per your own words, please provide proof.

"Is the PS5 HDD faster than Xbox Series X? Yes"

"Is prototype hardware not the same as final hardware? Yes."

Kindly please provide benchmark results on finalized hardware between the SSD of the PS5 and Xbox Series X. You your self just stated you said nothing but facts. Do not provide marketing slides or bullet points. Actual data that backs up your claim with finalized retail hardware.

No excuses. Facts are FACTS.

 

[purbeast0]

Wow, you completely missed the point.

But, per your own words, please provide proof.

"Is the PS5 HDD faster than Xbox Series X? Yes"

"Is prototype hardware not the same as final hardware? Yes."

Kindly please provide benchmark results on finalized hardware between the SSD of the PS5 and Xbox Series X. You your self just stated you said nothing but facts. Do not provide marketing slides or bullet points. Actual data that backs up your claim with finalized retail hardware.

No excuses. Facts are FACTS.

PS5 SSD throughput speed 5.5GB/sec, Xbox Series X SSD throughput speed 2.4GB/sec

PS5 SSD Vs Xbox Series X SSD - Which Is Better? - PlayStation Universe

PS5 SSD vs Xbox Series X SSD - We now have the full specifications for both next-gen consoles so which one is better? Well, we're glad you asked!

www.psu.com

Production of Xbox One X did not start until May therefore nothing before that was "final" hardware.

Xbox Series X production is underway, France on priority list

It was recently confirmed that Xbox Series X production is currently underway, and it appears that France is on the priority list.

www.vg247.com

Now get off my dick please.



That last line and the last in your prior post are out of bounds.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[LikeLinus]

PS5 SSD throughput speed 5.5GB/sec, Xbox Series X SSD throughput speed 2.4GB/sec

PS5 SSD Vs Xbox Series X SSD - Which Is Better? - PlayStation Universe

PS5 SSD vs Xbox Series X SSD - We now have the full specifications for both next-gen consoles so which one is better? Well, we're glad you asked!

www.psu.com

Production of Xbox One X did not start until May therefore nothing before that was "final" hardware.

Xbox Series X production is underway, France on priority list

It was recently confirmed that Xbox Series X production is currently underway, and it appears that France is on the priority list.

www.vg247.com

Now get off my dick please.

So, you're saying you do not have any actual data to support your facts? That is just pulled from marketing bullet points. I'm not saying it's not true, but you're obviously some sort of weird PS fanboy. I'm not the only one who's noticed it and you've been called out before.

Believe me, no girl wants the dick of a guy who orders 6 consoles. You take this stuff way too serious.





This kind of personal attack is not allowed at all. Take 5 days to cool off, you're taking this way too seriously as well.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[purbeast0]

Seems like everyone who ordered from Amazon received this same message. Glad I have backups incase.

Hello,

We're contacting you about your order of Xbox Series X to let you know in advance that you may not receive this item on the day it is released due to high demand. We are making every effort with the supplier to procure more inventory. We will provide additional updates once more information becomes available.

You can track the latest shipment status or, if you prefer, cancel your order from Your Orders page by clicking the following link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/your-orders-access


Thank you for shopping on Amazon.

Sincerely,

Customer Service
Amazon.com

 

[purbeast0]

So, you're saying you do not have any actual data to support your facts? That is just pulled from marketing bullet points. I'm not saying it's not true, but you're obviously some sort of weird PS fanboy. I'm not the only one who's noticed it and you've been called out before.

Believe me, no girl wants the dick of a guy who orders 6 consoles. You take this stuff way too serious.

Oh know the 2 Xbox fanboys in here think I'm a Sony fanboy because I'm not praising the Xbox Series X! What will I ever do?

> asks for facts.
> provide facts.
> "those arent the kind of facts I am talking about"

Fuck outta here. I'm done with you.