XP defragger for Vista?

[Goldfish4209]

Well, I completely understand what's going on, but I still like the pretty screen. The report's also vastly helpful. Why should I defragment when the most fragmented files are cookies and firefox cache?

 

[cbuchach]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209
Well, I completely understand what's going on, but I still like the pretty screen. The report's also vastly helpful. Why should I defragment when the most fragmented files are cookies and firefox cache?

I agree--it was dumb for MS to remove a few features from the default defragger. Hell, I don't think it even allows you to pick which drive to defrag--only the whole system. Which is why I went to using the command line version.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: bsobel
1) It ships with Vista
2) Vista schedules a boot time defrag for startup performance at idle times
3) Vista schedules a whole disk defrag weekly
4) This all happens without the user doing ANYTHING.

If you say 'this isnt a feature of Vista' your just now arguing for arguings sake.

Bill

Why is it not a feature? Because task scheduling has been around WAY before Vista. Now task scheduling is indeed a feature of Windows though.

Now, had Microsoft programmed the file system to defrag itself without any capable interaction at all then that would be a feature.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
No because the defrag will run automatically while I'm not using the machine.

Does it "automatically" stop when you start using it again? I don't think it does...

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: Nothinman
No because the defrag will run automatically while I'm not using the machine.

Does it "automatically" stop when you start using it again? I don't think it does...

Actually it does. However, if you manually start a defrag, it will not stop when you start using the machine. Only the scheduled defrag will stop on activity.

Vista Defrag FAQ (not that you will actually read it, but maybe others will): https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/articles/440717.aspx

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: stash
Actually it does. However, if you manually start a defrag, it will not stop when you start using the machine. Only the scheduled defrag will stop on activity.

Vista Defrag FAQ (not that you will actually read it, but maybe others will): <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/articles/440717.aspx">https://blogs.technet.com/f......ticles/440717.aspx</a>

I'm always eager to learn (contrary to the misconception that many have of me) so of course I read it. What's interesting is that no, it DOES NOT stop the defrag if you start using applications. It just slows the defrag down.

Defrag always uses low priority CPU and disk I/O except when defragging the MFT (to prevent long blocking periods on the MFT). The type of defrag you choose (scheduled or manual) makes no difference. Using low priority CPU and disk I/O does not prevent Defrag from using more system resources when you are not using the computer, such as when the scheduled defrag runs overnight. You can see this by running the command-line version of Defrag with just your Task Manager running. Defrag will eventually take a lot of resources, but if you start doing something else on the computer, Defrag will back off. This means that the defrag process will be slower when you use the computer, but then again, you won?t notice the same hit on performance as you did using the Windows XP Defragmenter.

Interesting. I wonder what Microsoft's idea of a "performance hit" really is.

 

[xxTurbonium]

FYI Vista SP1 is reportedly improving the defrag utility.

 

[stash]

it DOES NOT stop the defrag if you start using applications. It just slows the defrag down.

You're reading that wrong. The defrag process will be slower because it stops defragging when the machine is in use.

My computer seems sluggish, as if the scheduled defrag is running and slowing down the computer as I work. How can I check to see if Defrag is running?
If you are using the computer, the ScheduledDefrag task should not be running. You shouldn?t see Defrag.exe or Dfrgntfs.exe in Task Manager, though you might catch Dfrgntfs.exe running for the couple seconds it takes to close after user activity is detected. (Note that these .exes run under SYSTEM, so you can?t see them in Task Manager without clicking the Show processes from all users button.) If, however, you started Defrag manually, then Defrag.exe and Dfrgntfs.exe will appear in Task Manager and won?t stop when user activity is detected. This manual defragmentation should not cause a significant impact on user activity thanks to defrag?s use of low-priority I/O and low priority CPU.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: stash
You're reading that wrong. The defrag process will be slower because it stops defragging when the machine is in use.

How am I reading it wrong? I directly quoted from the FAQ and it clearly states that defrag will continue to run but just slow down so you don't suffer a "performance hit". I quoted it word for word. Now you are telling me that I don't know how to read properly? Stop being a troll. I know how to read. I will post the quote directly here again.

Defrag always uses low priority CPU and disk I/O except when defragging the MFT (to prevent long blocking periods on the MFT). The type of defrag you choose (scheduled or manual) makes no difference. Using low priority CPU and disk I/O does not prevent Defrag from using more system resources when you are not using the computer, such as when the scheduled defrag runs overnight. You can see this by running the command-line version of Defrag with just your Task Manager running. Defrag will eventually take a lot of resources, but if you start doing something else on the computer, Defrag will back off. This means that the defrag process will be slower when you use the computer, but then again, you won?t notice the same hit on performance as you did using the Windows XP Defragmenter.

What part of that do you not understand?

 

[stash]

"defrag process" in that context means the act of defragging, not the actual Windows process doing the defrag. When it says defrag will back off it is referring to the fact that defrag will completely stop what it is doing until the system is idle again, when it will start back up. This stopping and starting slows the overall act of defragging the drive.

The part about perf compared to XP is referring to the fact that XP doesn't stop when there is activity, regardless of how the defrag is started (manually or scheduled). So while the XP defrag might defrag the drive quicker, you will notice a perf hit while you use the system. Vista might take longer to completely defrag the drive, but that's because it stops when you use the system, so that there isn't any perf hit.

The part of the FAQ I quoted clearly spells that out. Nowhere does the part you quoted say the defrag.exe or dfrgntfs.exe processes will slow down but keep running during user activity, because they don't. They either stop completely during user activity (if the defrag is started from the scheduled task) or they keep running regardless of activity (if the defrag is started manually).

 

[Goldfish4209]

Oh, and when I run the command line defragger it tells me access is denied, even when I run as administrator. Any ideas on this?

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209
Oh, and when I run the command line defragger it tells me access is denied, even when I run as administrator. Any ideas on this?

Elevate your command-prompt box itself to Admin level (right-click Command Prompt on the Start > All Programs > Accessories menu, and choose Run As Administrator), then run your defrag.

 

[Goldfish4209]

That's what I did. It doesn't work.

 

[stash]

What command are you running?

 

[accguy9009]

You need to use Ubuntu

 

[Goldfish4209]

command prompt, defrag.exe. I put in <C:> -a [-v] and it says access is denied.

Actually, I'm already looking into getting linux and messing with it.

 

[stash]

What does the title of the command window say? It should say "Administrator: c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe"

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209
command prompt, defrag.exe. I put in <C:> -a [-v] and it says access is denied.

Actually, I'm already looking into getting linux and messing with it.

This is how it should look :camera: in a command prompt that was elevated to Run As Administrator.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209
command prompt, defrag.exe. I put in <C:> -a [-v] and it says access is denied.

Actually, I'm already looking into getting linux and messing with it.

Oh geez, try looking at the examples. You need to enter:

defrag c: -a

NOT

defrag <c:> -a

The end of help includes 'examples' look there.

That said, its hard to say this without coming across wrong. But if you can't figure the above out, you have no business monkeying with the default settings.

Bill

p.s. Stash, side note. Defrag <c:> gives invalid parameter, Defrag <c:> -a gives access denied...

 

[martensite]

Manual defragmentation is obsolete; automatic is the way forward. No reason why you'd want to waste time defragmenting a few hundred gigs (and more!) of data across a few drives regularly, if there is an automatic process to do it safely and intelligently.

Workplace with hundreds of PCs + dumb users + manual/scheduled defrags = major PITA. Automatic defrag greatly simplifies things. Vista is without doubt, a step in the right direction, but it needs some more control over what can be defragged or not.

More system maintenance tasks ought to be automatic; virus scans and updates (to an extent) have been automatic for a while, and now defrag too. I am curious to know what else is left that can be safely automated from the list of maintenance routines.

 

[stash]

p.s. Stash, side note. Defrag <c:> gives invalid parameter, Defrag <c:> -a gives access denied...

I thought he was doing that to avoid generating emoticons or something, but good catch

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: bigi
JKdefrag

I second this. Works like a charm!

 

[hclarkjr]

is the vista built in defrag built by the makers of diskeeper? i believe the one for XP is

 

[Nothinman]

Yea, it's still licensed from Executive Software IIRC.

 

[martensite]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Yea, it's still licensed from Executive Software IIRC.

I dont think Vista's defragger is a Diskeeper version. I remember reading elsewhere that it was written from scratch by Microsoft themselves, but I am not 100% sure on this, so it's not reliable info.