Yaahooo

[William Gaatjes]

GMOs are usually safe. Evolution requires GMOs. Kudzu is not a gengineered organism and it spreads rapidly. Invasive is based on how it can fit into an environment without any checks or balances and it is geared to rapid reproduction.

Example - Monsanto creates a cotton that is resistant to a blight and RoundUp. The goal is higher yields as weeds are kept down and production is higher. The crazies think this is bad. No, it is actually BETTER for the environment. Higher yields mean less land use. That can result in lower water requirements, lower fertilizer, etc. They might add nitrogen fixing into the gene... self fertilizing.

I am all for efficient production of materials. But i am worried about roundup.
What are the long term effects with a material that so obviously seems to kill everything. Do you know how it works ? I am just interested if it specifically targets for example some proteins only found in weeds ( Is this even possible with life sharing so much proteins ?). Or is roundup just a general killer of everything. That it is just a toxin inhibiting crucial process in every cell found ?

The caution with GMOs is what history has taught us with the Irish potato famine. Biological diversity must be maintained or you can be hit hard by a single event.

I totally agree. This is what worries me too. Although evolution will go on, the process of evolution does not have to be a good thing from a certain view . Evolution can turn out positive or negative for a species. It is all about perspective. Evolution is just evolution... No good , no bad, just life.

 

[Cotswolds]

Good Lord, this thread is just all over the place. Yay for stream of concious babbling!

Round up attacks the cell wall of any cells with which it comes in contact. Animal cells don't have cell walls, you're safe from the evil RoundUp!

 

[JTsyo]

GMOs are usually safe. Evolution requires GMOs. Kudzu is not a gengineered organism and it spreads rapidly. Invasive is based on how it can fit into an environment without any checks or balances and it is geared to rapid reproduction.

Example - Monsanto creates a cotton that is resistant to a blight and RoundUp. The goal is higher yields as weeds are kept down and production is higher. The crazies think this is bad. No, it is actually BETTER for the environment. Higher yields mean less land use. That can result in lower water requirements, lower fertilizer, etc. They might add nitrogen fixing into the gene... self fertilizing.

The caution with GMOs is what history has taught us with the Irish potato famine. Biological diversity must be maintained or you can be hit hard by a single event.

That was the problem with the corn, it wasn't the corn itself that was the problem but the pesticides the corn allowed them to use.
The article seems to be down, here's the google cache abstract:

We present for the first time a comparative analysis of blood and organ system data from trials with rats fed three main commercialized genetically modified (GM) maize (NK 603, MON 810, MON 863), which are present in food and feed in the world. NK 603 has been modified to be tolerant to the broad spectrum herbicide Roundup and thus contains residues of this formulation. MON 810 and MON 863 are engineered to synthesize two different Bt toxins used as insecticides. Approximately 60 different biochemical parameters were classified per organ and measured in serum and urine after 5 and 14 weeks of feeding. GM maize-fed rats were compared first to their respective isogenic or parental non-GM equivalent control groups. This was followed by comparison to six reference groups, which had consumed various other non-GM maize varieties. We applied nonparametric methods, including multiple pairwise comparisons with a False Discovery Rate approach. Principal Component Analysis allowed the investigation of scattering of different factors (sex, weeks of feeding, diet, dose and group). Our analysis clearly reveals for the 3 GMOs new side effects linked with GM maize consumption, which were sex- and often dose-dependent. Effects were mostly associated with the kidney and liver, the dietary detoxifying organs, although different between the 3 GMOs. Other effects were also noticed in the heart, adrenal glands, spleen and haematopoietic system. We conclude that these data highlight signs of hepatorenal toxicity, possibly due to the new pesticides specific to each GM corn. In addition, unintended direct or indirect metabolic consequences of the genetic modification cannot be excluded.

 

[gsellis]

That was the problem with the corn, it wasn't the corn itself that was the problem but the pesticides the corn allowed them to use.
The article seems to be down, here's the google cache abstract:

It is actually the Bt gened corn as the base (the pesticide - Roundup is a herbicide). And they were feeding seed stock from the sound of it, not field material. The conclusion is inconclusive to human models and they state it needs more study. I personally do not like the sample sizes that they used in the 11 and 33 groups with sex linked traits. Just looking at the graphs, you can see how 1 individual significantly changes a slope. And one of their controls even tracked with one of the findings.

Bt, Bacillus thuringiensis, is a bacteria that causes certain catepillars to literally starve to death by causing their digestive system to not break down what they eat. It has been a 'poison' used by organic farmers before 1970 (we used it on corn and brocolli in the 70's). Bt is safe for human consumption.

 

[gsellis]

I am all for efficient production of materials. But i am worried about roundup.
What are the long term effects with a material that so obviously seems to kill everything. Do you know how it works ? I am just interested if it specifically targets for example some proteins only found in weeds ( Is this even possible with life sharing so much proteins ?). Or is roundup just a general killer of everything. That it is just a toxin inhibiting crucial process in every cell found ?

RoundUp is not normally in the regular food chain in concentrations and is a 'salt'. Weed control is essential for good production returns (as well as pest management). And RoundUp came out somewhere in the 70's. I remember my dad buying a gallon of concentrate then at $125 a gallon. We used it for weed control under the grape arbors (where the mower would not reach).

 

[inspiron]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about!

 

[Red Squirrel]

I can just see it now, in 100 years from now when this becomes the norm. People will be looking at history thinking "Can you imagine? Back in the early 2000's they used to kill live animals and eat them!" Followed by a bunch of "Ewwwww!"s

 

[Gibsons]

Good Lord, this thread is just all over the place. Yay for stream of concious babbling!

Round up attacks the cell wall of any cells with which it comes in contact. Animal cells don't have cell walls, you're safe from the evil RoundUp!

The active ingredient in Roundup is glyphosate, it inhibits an enzyme in plants necessary for synthesis of aromatic amino acids. Humans use a different enzyme/pathway, so roundup won't have the same toxicity. Of course, everything/anything is toxic in high enough amounts. There's also some surfactant included to increase its penetration into plant tissues.

 

[borisvodofsky]

I know texture and all is very important. It is just the first step. That's why i wrote about the nervous system and muscle work out. To give it the texture and bite good meat has. And afcourse this is not just limited to pork. Lamb, cow, horse, kangaroo, ostrich steaks all are yummie. I prefer horse stake because it has a lot of healthy protein. It is expensive tho... Although the ostrich steak was wonderful too...

I puree baked chicken breasts in skim milk and add some oatmeal, slurped along with some celery sticks. 3 identical meals a day.

Snack on Peanuts and fruits between meals.

Amazing bowl movements. and It reduced costs to 1/5th of what I used to eat.

Been eating that for months now,Gave up on flavor. I feel So good all the time. ALL THE TIME. Except when I played SC2, but the rest of the time.

This artificial meat would make my easy meal even easier. :hmm: life is too good to me

 

[William Gaatjes]

I puree baked chicken breasts in skim milk and add some oatmeal, slurped along with some celery sticks. 3 identical meals a day.

Snack on Peanuts and fruits between meals.

Amazing bowl movements. and It reduced costs to 1/5th of what I used to eat.

Been eating that for months now,Gave up on flavor. I feel So good all the time. ALL THE TIME. Except when I played SC2, but the rest of the time.

This artificial meat would make my easy meal even easier. :hmm: life is too good to me

Lucky you. I am sick at home at the moment having a cold, fever and it started with amazing bowl movement for the first 36 hours :'thumbsdown:

 

[MrColin]

In order to do any animal tissue culture, guess what you need...Animal products. I guarantee that they grew that stuff in a bath of sterile serum taken from other (formerly) living animals. If you checked the dumpster behind the lab you would likely find hundreds of empty 500ml bottles of bovine serum and loads of other unsustainable products that were required. Not to mention all of the inputs to make it have to be sterilized using either toxic chemicals, radiation, or just heat. Growing the meat isn't the hard part, its duplicating the functions of the digestive tract, cardiovascular system, and immune system that will be impossible.

A more viable option for producing dietary protein from non animal sources would be from growing fungi or bacteria, or possibly just what we are already doing with chemical conversion of vegetable inputs like soy.

 

[MrColin]

Good Lord, this thread is just all over the place. Yay for stream of concious babbling!

Round up attacks the cell wall of any cells with which it comes in contact. Animal cells don't have cell walls, you're safe from the evil RoundUp!

100% wrong, well except maybe for the animal safety part. You may have roundup confused burning napalm or sulfuric acid.

 

[MrColin]

The caution with GMOs is what history has taught us with the Irish potato famine. Biological diversity must be maintained or you can be hit hard by a single event.

The other caution is patent law. In the United States, corn farmers can no longer legally save their own seed from year to year. Even if they did not get their seed from Monsanto originally, they cannot prevent the pollen from neighboring farms which contains patented gene sequences from getting into thier seedstock.

Monsanto actually has teams of thugs that go around and harasses farmers who save their own seeds. Farmers who resist get sued into bankruptcy.

An interesting documentary I saw about some of these issues is called "Food Inc."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1286537/

 

[William Gaatjes]

The other caution is patent law. In the United States, corn farmers can no longer legally save their own seed from year to year. Even if they did not get their seed from Monsanto originally, they cannot prevent the pollen from neighboring farms which contains patented gene sequences from getting into thier seedstock.

Monsanto actually has teams of thugs that go around and harasses farmers who save their own seeds. Farmers who resist get sued into bankruptcy.

An interesting documentary I saw about some of these issues is called "Food Inc."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1286537/

Here is a video that will give you similiar mixed feelings...
It is a French documentary about who is controlling our food.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6262083407501596844#

And it shows what is happening in south America and now in India as well.