Yabsuvt

[roguerower]

Yet Another Buying an SUV Thread...but with a twist

The time has come for me to move on from my trusty '01 Civic. I've been himming & hawing over make the move for some time (about 2 years) but never found something that I liked. Now that the Civic rolled through 200,000 miles after 14 years of ownership (my family and then me), I feel like I'm ready for a change.

I've was looking at the small pickup class when I first started looking, however it seems like those vehicles (Ranger, Frontier, Tacoma) are either dead or have grown into larger pickups. I skipped over full size pickups and SUVs because I have no need for a vehicle that large. Compacts and sedans are out because I need the ability to tow. Sports cars are out likewise (even though I would love a FR-S or BRZ). This pretty much leaves me with the CUV segment.

As for my needs...this car will be my DD. I'm probably looking at a 40-50mi roundtrip commute for the next several years (I move around for work). On top of that I make several trips a month for skydiving to dropzones that are 100+ miles away and I routinely stay overnight at them, usually camping out. I have an 18' boat which weighs about 2,000# fully loaded. Geographic location changes depending on the jobsite. I've lived in NC for the past 5 months where I've had a couple of days of ice. Before that I lived in VA for 18 months where we got 2-8" of snow a couple of times both winters and I had to rely on co-workers with 4wd because I'm too cheap to buy snow tires. Before that I lived in ND where we got 4' of snow in the 3 months I lived there. 4WD or AWD is definitely needed.

Looking around it seems like there's no one vehicle that has everything I want. CR-V & RAV-4 are out based on reviews (mom-mobiles and generally just bland vehicles). I was eyeing the Forester 2.0XT (28H/23C) but it's only got a 1500# towing capacity. I thought about the Escape 2.0L Ecoboost (4WD, 28H/21C) but after seeing it in person it screams chick car to me. Then I moved onto the CX-5 2.5L (4WD, 30H/24C). Looks aggressive, pretty nice interior, 2,000# towing capacity...solid choice. Then the Cherokee came out. Most people hate the exterior, I kinda like it. The front is goofy and the back looks a bit fat, but I like the overall profile. 27 on the highway, 19 in the city, 4,500# towing capacity. I have yet to test drive one but I've sat in a couple and like the layout. It seems that barring a really shitty test drive, I'll be picking one up.

That said...can anyone think of a reason not to get it, do you have an argument for any of the vehicles I crossed off the list, or do can you recommend a vehicle I haven't thought of?

On top of that, I've never bought a new car before. I bought a motorcycle new, but it's a Triumph so the supply was pretty low and there wasn't much haggling with the dealer. What should I be aware of and what should I call BS on? Tax in NC is 3% but there's no limit on the documentation fee and it seems to be almost $600 for most dealers around here. Can I just say no documentation fee or I walk?

Help me ATG!

EDIT: I'm planning on buying new instead of used because I aim to keep this car for the next 10 years.

 

[MiataNC]

Buying new is overrated. Just about any car on the market is good for 100K+ miles as long as you do regular maintenance. You will eat thousands in depreciation and only get the "satisfaction" that you put all the miles on it yourself in return.

If I was in your shoes, I would be looking real hard at the V6-RAV4. You will have to get used, because Toyota dropped the V6 in 2013. The RAV4 with a V6 is ridiculously fun when you stomp on the gas. 0-60 in 6.3s

 

[lupi]

I'd say think again about the tacoma unless you really want the extra enclosed space of a minisuv.

 

[Knavish]

I don't know much about towing, but is it a good idea to regularly tow a trailer that is at the max rated capacity of the towing vehicle?

 

[vi edit]

Given your situation, if you can afford/store two vehicles I'd proably look at like a decent econocar again for your daily driver (Fit/Civic/ect) and then grab an old, cheap Ford Explorer for your occasional towing needs and winter bruiser.

Savings in gas between the two would probably cover the extra plates/insurance per year.

 

[justin4pack]

I have owned many jeeps. The 4.0 HO is bullet proof. Not sure on the new engine style I think its 3.8l? But I have owned a 2000 Cherokee for now 14 years and I have only had to replace tires brakes and and battery alternator. That's after the crazy off roading I do with it.

 

[roguerower]

Buying new is overrated. Just about any car on the market is good for 100K+ miles as long as you do regular maintenance. You will eat thousands in depreciation and only get the "satisfaction" that you put all the miles on it yourself in return.

If I was in your shoes, I would be looking real hard at the V6-RAV4. You will have to get used, because Toyota dropped the V6 in 2013. The RAV4 with a V6 is ridiculously fun when you stomp on the gas. 0-60 in 6.3s

Very true about the depreciation when buying new. Definitely a pain in the ass. The "satisfaction" though would more from being in a new vehicle with new technology. I've been driving a stripped down, barebones Civic for the past 6 years. It's done the job admirably.

I looked at the RAV4, but looking at a few on Carmax it looks like I'll still be paying in the high teens for a decent V6/4WD car.

I'd say think again about the tacoma unless you really want the extra enclosed space of a minisuv.

I looked, however I'm trying to see down the road a bit and predict my use. A new kid in a pickup wouldn't work out too well. That and the mileage would be pretty bad with a V6 and 4WD, even with a new one.

I don't know much about towing, but is it a good idea to regularly tow a trailer that is at the max rated capacity of the towing vehicle?

Not for an extended period of time or up/down elevations.

EDIT: I looked at the Tacoma more closely. Even with the V6, the towing capacity is only 3500#. The mileage is horrible at 21H/16C.

 

[roguerower]

Given your situation, if you can afford/store two vehicles I'd proably look at like a decent econocar again for your daily driver (Fit/Civic/ect) and then grab an old, cheap Ford Explorer for your occasional towing needs and winter bruiser.

Savings in gas between the two would probably cover the extra plates/insurance per year.

My budget is about $32k so that would be doable, but if I was in that frame of mind I'd keep the Civic, make all the repairs and buy a beater. I'd probably use the beater on the trips to the DZ because I'd sleep in it and that would blow any savings on gas.

I have owned many jeeps. The 4.0 HO is bullet proof. Not sure on the new engine style I think its 3.8l? But I have owned a 2000 Cherokee for now 14 years and I have only had to replace tires brakes and and battery alternator. That's after the crazy off roading I do with it.

The new engine is a 3.2L pentastar V6. Decent reviews thus far. I originally looked at an older Cherokee when I was in the market 5-6 years ago but got the Civic for free.

 

[roguerower]

Really? Nobody has anything advice?

 

[toronado97]

Go drive the CX-5. Fantastic vehicle. I'll never own another Chrysler product personally, and Jeep hasn't exactly been a bastion of reliability over the years either, although the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler seem to do better than the rest. Just a personal preference.

 

[Plugers]

what about a certified pre-owned Touareg? 20c/29h 7,700# towing capacity.

link

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Really? Nobody has anything advice?

Your op is difficult to directly answer. You have requirements on polar opposite spectrums, and are too cheap to buy snow tires to drive safely so I assume you want something inexpensive?

You do tons of commuting and want great gas mileage.

You also want to tow an 18' boat. We need to know how often you want to do this, as it's a major outlier figuring the best vehicle.

You also want 4wd..


You really might be better off with two vehicles. An old 2wd fullsize truck/suv/body on frame for towing, and a new commuter/snow 4wd car.

I will say right now, no way can you safely tow an 18' boat with a cx-5, cr-v, rav-4, escape. As a motorcyclist I'm surprised you're even considering this. My most dangerous close calls have been on the highway with morons trying to tow some overloaded trailer with a tiny unibody vehicle.


You might look at tahoe hybrid, used gx460, pathfinder, 4runner. But mpg will not be that great on anything that can safely tow an 18' boat, in my opinion.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

what about a certified pre-owned Touareg? 20c/29h 7,700# towing capacity.

link

That's a pretty good option. Those are surprisingly nice inside. I would be worried about long term reliability since the OP keeps them for >200k miles.

 

[Murloc]

if you don't even buy winter tires then why bother with 4wd anyway....

 

[roguerower]

what about a certified pre-owned Touareg? 20c/29h 7,700# towing capacity.

link

Good idea. I'll look at them.

Your op is difficult to directly answer. You have requirements on polar opposite spectrums, and are too cheap to buy snow tires to drive safely so I assume you want something inexpensive?

Yes, my needs vary which is why I'm trying to find a middle ground.

You do tons of commuting and want great gas mileage.

I do moderate commuting and want acceptable gas mileage. Nothing short of a hybrid or another econo-box is going to match my 14 year old civic...I understand that. What I'm hoping for is something that won't make me bend over and bite a pillow at the pump.

You also want to tow an 18' boat. We need to know how often you want to do this, as it's a major outlier figuring the best vehicle.

Right now it's once or twice every three months because I live on the water and my boat stays in a slip. That may very well change though. I'm trying to predict my usage over the next 5-10 years.

You also want 4wd..

Again, my needs will change. I currently live in NC. Prior to that I lived in VA for 18 months, before that, ND for 3 months during the winter, prior to that Texas. I move for work and I have no idea what my needs will be in the future...I'm just trying to take everything into account when making this decision.

You really might be better off with two vehicles. An old 2wd fullsize truck/suv/body on frame for towing, and a new commuter/snow 4wd car.

I've looked into that, and while it definitely sounds like an option, I don't know if that's something I'm interested in. I'll have to look into it more.

I will say right now, no way can you safely tow an 18' boat with a cx-5, cr-v, rav-4, escape. As a motorcyclist I'm surprised you're even considering this. My most dangerous close calls have been on the highway with morons trying to tow some overloaded trailer with a tiny unibody vehicle.

Which is why they were ruled out. I've seen idiots trying to do too much with too little. The cherokee answered that problem.

You might look at tahoe hybrid, used gx460, pathfinder, 4runner. But mpg will not be that great on anything that can safely tow an 18' boat, in my opinion.

Some great points Spatially. Thanks.

if you don't even buy winter tires then why bother with 4wd anyway....

Because over the last two years I have not lived in a place that consistently has gotten snow and therefore I have decided not to buy a set. When the weather got to the point that I couldn't drive my Civic, I was fortunate enough to have coworkers with 4WD who gave me a lift into work.

 

[Vaux]

I just got a Jeep Grand Cherokee for my wife and we LOVE it. It won't get the mpg you want but it will do everything else just fine. The regular Cherokee would be a option also but I really don't like the way it looks.

Also the document fee is a standard for every dealership, it's not usually something that is negotiable. And something you should be aware of? The invoice price of the vehicle you want.

 

[roguerower]

I just got a Jeep Grand Cherokee for my wife and we LOVE it. It won't get the mpg you want but it will do everything else just fine. The regular Cherokee would be a option also but I really don't like the way it looks.

Also the document fee is a standard for every dealership, it's not usually something that is negotiable. And something you should be aware of? The invoice price of the vehicle you want.

My buddy at work bought a Grand Cherokee Laredo a year and a half ago and loves it. He bitches about the payment but likes the vehicle.

I went to the Jeep dealer yesterday and test drove the Cherokee (hadn't done it yet). Great ride, quiet interior, LOTS of extras that I don't have in my Civic. The V6 had a pretty good amount of pickup and it felt solid going around the test drive corners.

Sat down and talked numbers with the salesman. It was the vehicle I wanted plus the upgraded the suspension & off-road package and minus the upgraded speakers. Originally cost was 33,800 but after presenting the Chrysler affiliate package they came back at 32,800 OTD. I said no dice, a dealer an hour away has the vehicle I want for 31k, probably 31.5k OTD. Sales person asked what he had to do to sell the car, I said come back at 32k. He came back and said he couldn't make it happen, I said thanks, stood up, and walked out.