YACT: Big car decision, need advice!

[archcommus]

Hey guys. Long story, hope some people read it.

This thread details some stalling issues I was having with my 1992 Mercury Sable. Well, I was dealing with that, but two days ago my brake light came on when I got to work. On my way home from work it flashed intermittently. The next day it was on solidly all the way to and from work, so I stopped at AutoZone and bought some brake fluid. I looked at the reservoir but it was so dirty and hard to see at the right angle that I couldn't really tell if it was low or not. The guy at the store said there was no harm in filling it all the way to the top so that's what I intended to do. On my way home from AutoZone, suddenly the brakes almost completely crapped out on me. I was able to stop the car, but only very gradually and the brake pedal went all the way to the floor. Luckily I was able to make it home safely. I filled the brake fluid and it made no difference, so I took it down to Goodyear.

They call me back today and basically describe the thousand ways this car is falling apart. Rear drums are too large, rear wheel parking brake lines are shot, bearings, struts, valves, holes in the floor, etc. He was amazed it passed inspection just on April 30. He said the repairs would exceed $1000. I asked him to narrow that down just to what I needed to drive it out of there with working brakes, and he said still probably not much less than $800.

First, is this guy ripping me off? I mean I don't doubt that all those things are wrong with it, but I doubt that much needs to be replaced just to get the brakes in operation again. They were literally 100% fine until my trip home from AutoZone.

Second, assuming I can't knock the costs down to the $200 range, I think it's obvious it's time for a new car. On to that discussion...

Getting a new car sucks right now. Mainly because I need it in the summer, but don't need it during the school year. So if I buy one now, I'm stuck making payments all school year for absolutely nothing, let alone being able to afford those payments since I wouldn't be working full time. Basically any car loan right now would not be good, and I don't have enough in cash to buy a used one upfront.

The only thing I was considering, and please don't bash me for this or say I'm a bad person for considering it, is taking out an additional very large student loan to cover the cost of a car if I could convince the lender it is an educational expense. That would be easy to justify - I need to get to and from home, and also to and from work at school.

If I can and do go down that route, I'm not sure if I'd want to get a cheap car that I'll get rid of once I graduate, or get a car that I'd actually like to own WHEN I graduate, and try to keep it pretty much for at least the next 10 years. In this case I'd probably buy a Sonata or something, something that I'd like and that would also be reliable with a long warranty coverage.

Cliffs:
1. Car needs tons of repairs. Mechanic BSing me?
2. New car loan right now would not be good. Can I use a student loan to cover a car?
3. Should I buy something cheap and disposable or something more long term?

Thanks for reading if you did, any advice would be really appreciated.

 

[jemcam]

Cliffs:
1. Car needs tons of repairs. Mechanic BSing me? WTF knows without looking at your car?
2. New car loan right now would not be good. Can I use a student loan to cover a car? Probably, but also not the wisest decision.
3. Should I buy something cheap and disposable or something more long term? Cheap, disposable, and reliable. Think used Honda or Toyota.

 

[radioouman]

Pay the $1000 and keep the car until you graduate.
Yes it will be a money pit, but it is far cheaper than buying a new car, especially being a student.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: jemcam
Cliffs:
1. Car needs tons of repairs. Mechanic BSing me? WTF knows without looking at your car?
2. New car loan right now would not be good. Can I use a student loan to cover a car? Probably, but also not the wisest decision.
3. Should I buy something cheap and disposable or something more long term? Cheap, disposable, and reliable. Think used Honda or Toyota.

1. If you read the details I explain it a little better. It's strange that the brakes go from totally fine to needing $800 worth of repairs in a matter of minutes, with no sign of degradation beforehand.
2. Why not wise? It's almost like getting a new car loan when I graduate, but securing it now instead.
3. I know people will suggest that, but I'm really not into paying like 5 grand for some cheap old Civic that could still break down on me - just because it's a Honda doesn't mean it's immune to that - and that I'll just end up selling in two years and probably losing a lot of money on.

 

[iamwiz82]

Get a second opinion first

Also, have you thought about trying to fix it yourself? You must one someone who is mechanically inclined.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: radioouman
Pay the $1000 and keep the car until you graduate.
Yes it will be a money pit, but it is far cheaper than buying a new car, especially being a student.

I don't know, that's a risky proposition. It was already stalling in the beginning of the day, and the list of things wrong with it is endless. What if I drop a grand now, then in a month the stalling increases to all the time and that's another grand to fix. Just not worth it.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Get a second opinion first

Also, have you thought about trying to fix it yourself? You must one someone who is mechanically inclined.

Probably a good idea...

And yes, I do. But I'd need to be able to pinpoint the ONE thing that made the brakes go from functional to non-functional so quickly, and the mechanic doesn't seem to be able to pinpoint that for me.

 

[AdamK47]

It always amazed just how fast the Sables of those years rusted.

 

[thedarkwolf]

You don't "need" a parking brake, the struts replaced, or the floors fixed. Sounds like you need the back brake pads, drums, and wheel cylinders which cost nothing for the parts and labor shouldn't be a big deal and a brake flush. New brake lines probably wouldn't be a bad idea either at that age and are cheap. What bearings is he talking about? If its the engine bearings then you would have probably notice a lack of oil pressure and probably a nice loud knocking sound. If thats the case get another car. If its the wheel bearings then that shouldn't be that big of a deal. What valves is he talking about? I doubt there is anything wrong with the engine valves.

The stalling problem is probably just bad sensor or the idle air control valve which controls the idle . Fords have a lot of problems with those getting gunked up. Pretty easy to pop off and clean with carb cleaner.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Get a second opinion first

Also, have you thought about trying to fix it yourself? You must one someone who is mechanically inclined.

Probably a good idea...

And yes, I do. But I'd need to be able to pinpoint the ONE thing that made the brakes go from functional to non-functional so quickly, and the mechanic doesn't seem to be able to pinpoint that for me.

Did you put the cap back on tightly enough? Did the seal on the cap fail? Did you get dirt into the brake fluid and it plugged up a line?

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: AdamK47
It always amazed just how fast the Sables of those years rusted.

Yeah, although most others I see on the road actually have very little to no rust. For some reason mine is much worse. I guess because I live in western PA and it was never garaged.

 

[Double Trouble]

I'd be a little leary of that mechanic unless you really trust the place. Get a second opinion on it from a different place. Even if you have to put $1000 into it though, that's still better than buying a new one you won't really be able to use after the summer anyway. A car is not like a house, it's not an investment, and you don't make anything off it. From the moment you buy it, the value goes down, and it keeps going down.

No reason to buy a car now if you don't really need it (especially after the summer). Deal with the current beater as long as you can, then buy a nice reliable new vehicle after you graduate.

 

[Zenmervolt]

The brakes "went out" because you let the fluid leak out and the master cylinder sucked air into the system. That's why re-filling the reservoir didn't work.

Rear drums are not "too large", I can't think of a single thing that would be wrong with drums that could be described with a phrase like that.

There is no such thing as a "parking brake line". The parking brake is operated by a cable, not by hydraulics. He may have said that the rear brake lines are shot (which would explain your loss of brake fluid) and that your rear brake shoes, including the parking brake shoes, are shot and need replaced.

It's pretty much impossible to tell, even from your "detailed" description, whether you're being ripped off because it looks like you're not giving us the estimate verbatim. Which bearings? Which valves (engine valves or the brake porportioning valve)?

Struts are about right, they typically die after about 100,000 miles and given the age of your car they're probably pretty far gone.

We'd need the estimate papers from your mechanic to judge.

ZV

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
You don't "need" a parking brake, the struts replaced, or the floors fixed. Sounds like you need the back brake pads, drums, and wheel cylinders which cost nothing for the parts and labor shouldn't be a big deal and a brake flush. New brake lines probably wouldn't be a bad idea either at that age and are cheap. What bearings is he talking about? If its the engine bearings then you would have probably notice a lack of oil pressure and probably a nice loud knocking sound. If thats the case get another car. If its the wheel bearings then that shouldn't be that big of a deal. What valves is he talking about? I doubt there is anything wrong with the engine valves.

The stalling problem is probably just bad sensor or the idle air control valve which controls the ideal . Fords have a lot of problems with those getting gunked up. Pretty easy to pop off and clean with carb cleaner.

Exactly, those are all things I don't need taken care of right now, just the brakes! It was the wheel bearings, and the valve sounded something brake-related.

Thing is, with that many things with issues, I'm afraid to put ANY money at all into it, even for just the brakes, for fear it'll be a waste if something else worse happens soon.

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Get a second opinion first

Also, have you thought about trying to fix it yourself? You must one someone who is mechanically inclined.

Probably a good idea...

And yes, I do. But I'd need to be able to pinpoint the ONE thing that made the brakes go from functional to non-functional so quickly, and the mechanic doesn't seem to be able to pinpoint that for me.

Did you put the cap back on tightly enough? Did the seal on the cap fail? Did you get dirt into the brake fluid and it plugged up a line?

I was very careful to not let any dirt or grime get in the reservoir, and the cap was put back on fully. Besides, the brake light started coming on and the brakes started failing before I even tried to add fluid.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: jemcam
Cliffs:
1. Car needs tons of repairs. Mechanic BSing me? WTF knows without looking at your car?
2. New car loan right now would not be good. Can I use a student loan to cover a car? Probably, but also not the wisest decision.
3. Should I buy something cheap and disposable or something more long term? Cheap, disposable, and reliable. Think used Honda or Toyota.

Until the door handles fall off and he can't get in anymore.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The brakes "went out" because you let the fluid leak out and the master cylinder sucked air into the system. That's why re-filling the reservoir didn't work.

Rear drums are not "too large", I can't think of a single thing that would be wrong with drums that could be described with a phrase like that.

There is no such thing as a "parking brake line". The parking brake is operated by a cable, not by hydraulics. He may have said that the rear brake lines are shot (which would explain your loss of brake fluid) and that your rear brake shoes, including the parking brake shoes, are shot and need replaced.

It's pretty much impossible to tell, even from your "detailed" description, whether you're being ripped off because it looks like you're not giving us the estimate verbatim. Which bearings? Which valves (engine valves or the brake porportioning valve)?

Struts are about right, they typically die after about 100,000 miles and given the age of your car they're probably pretty far gone.

We'd need the estimate papers from your mechanic to judge.

ZV

Sorry for my crappy description, it's the best I can do with my limited knowledge of car mechanics and how fast the guy was talking. I'll try to address your confusions.

He specifically said the rear drums are "too large" for this vehicle, as if it was someone else's mistake for putting that kind on.

He did say that the rear brake lines were shot, but I remember him saying rear PARKING brake lines, because I asked him if the parking brake was only working for the front wheels and he said yes.

I'm pretty sure the valve was the brake proportioning valve.

Thanks, sorry my knowledge is inferior.

 

[ViviTheMage]

i hate money pits, im a student and my thoughts would be to junkyard it....get a decent car that will last you, most likely a honda civic-94+ year you can pick em up for 1.5k+ in DECENT shape.

good luck!

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The brakes "went out" because you let the fluid leak out and the master cylinder sucked air into the system. That's why re-filling the reservoir didn't work.

He might be able to fix it by bleeding the brakes, assuming the lines aren't shot ... which I'm guessing they might have finally rusted out. That could cause it to go from working to toast quickly.

- M4H

 

[archcommus]

Well I'm going to see what the final, lowest value number is he gives me when he calls back.

What's so bad about buying a car with a student loan if you can? As long as I would keep and use the car for many years after I graduate, it's really not that much different from getting a new car loan on top of all my student loans when I graduate, except for the extra interest that would build up until then.

 

[LordMorpheus]

you can get cheap and long term if you get an older (early 1990's) Honda or Toyota.

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: archcommus

He did say that the rear brake lines were shot, but I remember him saying rear PARKING brake lines, because I asked him if the parking brake was only working for the front wheels and he said yes.

Get another mechanic. Parking brake is for rear wheels only - it has nothing to do with the front wheels, even if the car is working 100%.

He has you over a barrel and he knows it. He knows you can't fix it yourself. Based on his conversations with you (I'm assuming) he also knows that you have very little / no knowledge about cars, and what possible causes for the problem are. And last, he knows you can't drive it out of there and get a second opinion with no brakes - i.e. you're stuck there, and at his mercy, unless you have it towed elsewhere. He could tell you anything, and you wouldn't be able to contest it without having the knowledge to do so.

If the brakes were working 100% up until yesterday and then all of a sudden went to nothing, your pads / shoes are probably usable for now. The symptoms suggest a loss of hydraulic pressure, the most likely cause of which would be a rusted out line / blown brake hose. If this is the case, the part is <$10 and generally not hard to replace. Of course, all of the other lines / hoses should be looked at too, since they might be in similar shape.

Of course, if this was the case, and the mechanic told you the truth...he wouldn't make much money on it. Which is why he gave you that laundry list of things that are supposedly "wrong".

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: archcommus

He did say that the rear brake lines were shot, but I remember him saying rear PARKING brake lines, because I asked him if the parking brake was only working for the front wheels and he said yes.

Get another mechanic. Parking brake is for rear wheels only - it has nothing to do with the front wheels, even if the car is working 100%.

He has you over a barrel and he knows it. He knows you can't fix it yourself. Based on his conversations with you (I'm assuming) he also knows that you have very little / no knowledge about cars, and what possible causes for the problem are. And last, he knows you can't drive it out of there and get a second opinion with no brakes - i.e. you're stuck there, and at his mercy, unless you have it towed elsewhere. He could tell you anything, and you wouldn't be able to contest it without having the knowledge to do so.

If the brakes were working 100% up until yesterday and then all of a sudden went to nothing, your pads / shoes are probably usable for now. The symptoms suggest a loss of hydraulic pressure, the most likely cause of which would be a rusted out line / blown brake hose. If this is the case, the part is <$10 and generally not hard to replace. Of course, all of the other lines / hoses should be looked at too, since they might be in similar shape.

Of course, if this was the case, and the mechanic told you the truth...he wouldn't make much money on it. Which is why he gave you that laundry list of things that are supposedly "wrong".

Exactly why I hate going to mechanics. Hopefully I can mostly avoid this in my adult life.

I called back, he said the one thing that was the final straw yesterday was the brake proportioning valve, it's leaking and losing pressure in the system. He said if he fixes that it'll be around $200 with labor, and I should be able to drive it out of there in the same state it was in before yesterday. But he is sure the other problems are present, although who knows how severe they actually are. The thing is, he said fixing only that one part and letting the rest go can be a liability issue for them. The owner isn't in right now, but when he gets back he makes the final decision as to whether they can replace this one part and let me go or not.

 

[archcommus]

They called back today, said the bare minimum they could let me out of there with would be close to $400, and even that wouldn't be fixing every issue they see with the brakes, which would be closer to $800. I know some of you may say that is worth it, but I really don't think it is. It already stalls and idles low/rough very frequently. Who knows if that would get worse or not, let alone other random things cropping up. I can't potentially waste that kind of money.

So IMO it's time for a new car. I know many of you will suggest a Honda/Toyota beater. Well, I have to say no to that. I'm done owning old, very used, high mileage cars long out of warranty if I can avoid it. I want reliability and peace of mind, even if that comes at a higher price. So the lowest I'm considering is a certified car. Even then, I'm not happy with making payments on it when I'm not even using it during the school year, only to probably trade it in when I graduate.

So that leads me to what I think is the best decision, which I bet many of you are going to disagree with - buying a newer, nice car now. You might say that's stupid, because I'm in college, don't have a lot of money, and don't even need the car while I'm at school. But, regardless of what I do, I'm going to have to be making payments during the school year, so if I'm going to be doing that I want to feel like it's worth it and not a waste, and having payments go towards a new car that I'm going to keep for 5+ years after I graduate would feel worth it. Then when I'm done with school I already have two years of payments taken care of. I know that if I get loans to cover school costs (including my rent) I should be able to afford a car payment of around $300/month + insurance. In this case I'd be looking for something with an immense warranty, which would probably mean a Hyundai.

Any input? Thanks.

 

[SearchMaster]

While I understand the emotional state you're in right now, I would definitely have the vehicle looked at by someone else. I've known probably 5 or 6 guys who have worked for Goodyear over the years, and all but one reported pressure from management to essentially make up problems to bill the customers more money. I will NEVER take a car to Goodyear, even if I was broken down in the parking lot of one.

Also, taking out a student loan to pay for a car really is an abuse of the system. It's not the most egregious thing I've ever heard of, but an abuse nonetheless. You'll be MUCH, much better off waiting until you have a steady income stream to buy a new car. I know you won't heed this advice though , so best of luck and I hope everything works out for you.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: archcommus

So that leads me to what I think is the best decision, which I bet many of you are going to disagree with - buying a newer, nice car now. You might say that's stupid, because I'm in college, don't have a lot of money, and don't even need the car while I'm at school. But, regardless of what I do, I'm going to have to be making payments during the school year, so if I'm going to be doing that I want to feel like it's worth it and not a waste, and having payments go towards a new car that I'm going to keep for 5+ years after I graduate would feel worth it. Then when I'm done with school I already have two years of payments taken care of. I know that if I get loans to cover school costs (including my rent) I should be able to afford a car payment of around $300/month + insurance. In this case I'd be looking for something with an immense warranty, which would probably mean a Hyundai.

Any input? Thanks.

Assuming is 3 years term on the loan. You can't afford anything outside the lowest price of the range.

I would say look for certified used Civic/Corolla.

Those new car you get for $10k will depreciate faster than the certified Civic.

List of everything under $15k http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontaine...tegory2=pricerange/attribute2=under15k


Or you can lease a nicer car for the time being and buy it out or return it after 3 years. PERFECT.