YACT: Big car decision, need advice!

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
While I understand the emotional state you're in right now, I would definitely have the vehicle looked at by someone else. I've known probably 5 or 6 guys who have worked for Goodyear over the years, and all but one reported pressure from management to essentially make up problems to bill the customers more money. I will NEVER take a car to Goodyear, even if I was broken down in the parking lot of one.

Also, taking out a student loan to pay for a car really is an abuse of the system. It's not the most egregious thing I've ever heard of, but an abuse nonetheless. You'll be MUCH, much better off waiting until you have a steady income stream to buy a new car. I know you won't heed this advice though , so best of luck and I hope everything works out for you.

Thanks, I'm doing my best to listen to advice while of course considering my own opinions.

The reason I sort of trusted and believed this guy at Goodyear was because he very easily could've told me replacing the brake proportioning valve would've been enough and gotten $200 out of me, but instead he told me he honestly thinks it needs at least $400 worth of work and he recommended I DON'T get it done. He felt it was in my best interest not to given the state of the car. I don't know why he'd say all that if it wasn't true.

I don't really have the time to take it from mechanic to mechanic. It's barely drivable with the current state of the brakes, and I need transporation for work next week. No matter where I go it's going to need a few hundred worth at least, and given the state of other things I just can't do that right now.

I wouldn't be taking out a student loan FOR the car payment exactly. I would be taking out more student loans to cover my apartment rent than I previously intended to, so I'd have enough for my car payments. That doesn't seem like an abuse of the system to me.

Car payments for one school year plus insurance might total around $3500. I should finish this summer with at least $7000 in cash, plus hopefully continuing to make at least $500/month during the school year. Is that not feasible? Then if I had bought a Hyundai I would have made two years of payments already and still have 3 years of bumper-to-bumper warranty and 8 years of powertrain warranty left.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: archcommus

So that leads me to what I think is the best decision, which I bet many of you are going to disagree with - buying a newer, nice car now. You might say that's stupid, because I'm in college, don't have a lot of money, and don't even need the car while I'm at school. But, regardless of what I do, I'm going to have to be making payments during the school year, so if I'm going to be doing that I want to feel like it's worth it and not a waste, and having payments go towards a new car that I'm going to keep for 5+ years after I graduate would feel worth it. Then when I'm done with school I already have two years of payments taken care of. I know that if I get loans to cover school costs (including my rent) I should be able to afford a car payment of around $300/month + insurance. In this case I'd be looking for something with an immense warranty, which would probably mean a Hyundai.

Any input? Thanks.

Assuming is 3 years term on the loan. You can't afford anything outside the lowest price of the range.

I would say look for certified used Civic/Corolla.

Those new car you get for $10k will depreciate faster than the certified Civic.

List of everything under $15k http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontaine...tegory2=pricerange/attribute2=under15k


Or you can lease a nicer car for the time being and buy it out or return it after 3 years. PERFECT.

3 year term? I was figuring $300/month for like 60 months on an ~$20k Sonata after a couple thousand down.

Problem with the certified Japs is they're so overpriced. True, it may be reliable, but I'm still paying $10k for a car with 60k+ miles on it.

Leasing sounds even worse because then I'm paying for a car I'm not even using and it's going towards NOTHING, unless I buy it at the end of the lease, but that could get very tricky.

 

[Chryso]

I had an economics professor who swore it was cheaper to continuously buy extremely cheap used cars than to ever buy a new car. He practiced what he preached too. Of course, you have to be someone who is able to handle having the occasional break down.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: archcommus


Or you can lease a nicer car for the time being and buy it out or return it after 3 years. PERFECT.

3 year term? I was figuring $300/month for like 60 months on an ~$20k Sonata after a couple thousand down.

Problem with the certified Japs is they're so overpriced. True, it may be reliable, but I'm still paying $10k for a car with 60k+ miles on it.

Leasing sounds even worse because then I'm paying for a car I'm not even using and it's going towards NOTHING, unless I buy it at the end of the lease, but that could get very tricky.[/quote]

I wouldn't burden myself with 6 years of car payment on a Hyundai. With that certified car, you should get another 100k+ miles out of it if maintain properly. And also cutting down your payment to 3 years. Its more sensible economically speaking.

Did you factor in gas and insurance? Or parents paying for that?

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Chryso
I had an economics professor who swore it was cheaper to continuously buy extremely cheap used cars than to ever buy a new car. He practiced what he preached too. Of course, you have to be someone who is able to handle having the occasional break down.

I'm sure it is, but that's not my top concern. I like warranties, I like insurance, things of that nature. I want peace of mind.

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I wouldn't burden myself with 6 years of car payment on a Hyundai. With that certified car, you should get another 100k+ miles out of it if maintain properly. And also cutting down your payment to 3 years. Its more sensible economically speaking.

Did you factor in gas and insurance? Or parents paying for that?

Well 60 months would be 5 years. I did factor in insurance, but not gas because I wouldn't be driving it for those 8 months.

You say the certified Japs are smarter economically but they're still expensive, I don't think I could pay one off in 3 years. Looking at the official Honda and Toyota listings the cheapest Honda is a $13k Civic with 46k miles and the cheapest Toyota is a $16k Corolla with about 50k miles. That's only $4k less than a brand new Sonata! I admit the Civic IS a bit cheaper, but spending 13 grand on a boring, boring few year old Civic is just depressing.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Well 60 months would be 5 years. I did factor in insurance, but not gas because I wouldn't be driving it for those 8 months.

You say the certified Japs are smarter economically but they're still expensive, I don't think I could pay one off in 3 years. Looking at the official Honda and Toyota listings the cheapest Honda is a $13k Civic with 46k miles and the cheapest Toyota is a $16k Corolla with about 50k miles. That's only $4k less than a brand new Sonata! I admit the Civic IS a bit cheaper, but spending 13 grand on a boring, boring few year old Civic is just depressing.

I don't know where are you looking. In my area, 3-4 year old Civic goes for $10-12k asking and Corolla is even cheaper. Of course I wouldn't pay $16k for a used Corolla when you can get a NEW one for $16k!

Whatever you want is up to you. I just don't think having 5 years of loan is a smart choice since you not driving it 8 months of the year. You can pay off a Civic and Corolla with the same $300 monthly in 3 years.

And a Sonata is just as boring as the Civic IMO. I don't see why you love the new Sonata so much when its just another A to B car. Factor in $4-5 gallon gas price, and you would see the Civic is not that depressing- not to your wallet anyway.

And what if you cant get a job RIGHT out of school, now you are burden with both car and student loan payment. Even if it save $2000-3000 to get a used car, it makes perfect sense...let alone $4k difference.

 

[DougK62]

Take out loans to buy things that aren't a necessity. It's the American way!

Many people fresh out of college buy a brand new car. Five years later they'll all tell you it was the worst financial decision they ever made.

 

[JDub02]

Same thing happened to me with the brakes in my 92 Buick Lesabre. The rear lines rusted through and I lost all the pressure. Only had a bit of braking power when the pedal went the whole way to the floor. Not much you can do with that one other than replace the brake lines. I have no idea what he's saying about the rear drums being too large. They don't change size. In fact, you really don't ever have to replace the drums, just the pads.

I'd tell them just to replace the brake lines and run the car until it blows up. If you have valve problems, like they said, the car is not worth putting money into. That means the motor is not doing so well and will need excessive amounts of cash.

 

[lightpants]

Originally posted by: JDub02
I have no idea what he's saying about the rear drums being too large. They don't change size. In fact, you really don't ever have to replace the drums, just the pads.
q]

Please don't give car advice if you know nothing about what you are talking about.

Your brake drums, just like the rotors in the front, wear from the friction of the brake pads. In time the inside surface of the drum enlarges. There are maximum measurements for this wear and when it exceeds those measurements, it needs to be replaced.

 

[lightpants]

How about this:
Every summer when you get home, buy a <$500 car, old van or truck. Check craigslist. Drive it for 3 months and if it survives the summer sell it. That way you don't have car or insurance payments when you are at school. Every year get a new (old) car, if you find one you like and seems reliable, keep it until it dies.

You will be a lot further ahead in both the long and the short run.


edit: Don't say this cant be done, I have bought many <500 cars that I have used for a year or so and then sold. I usually make all my money back when selling them. Just look around, you'll find something.

 

[jammur21]

Look for a early/mid 80's Toyota pickup - should be about $800.

 

[archcommus]

Wow this is tough. I appreciate all the advice, though.

The Sonata is a lot more interesting than an old Civic to me, but I understand what you're saying about the price. Thing is, for the price range you're talking about, I don't think it'll be certified. I'm leary about buying any car for a few grand without a warranty. I'd be too afraid of anything major going wrong while I'm still paying it off. I agree paying for a new car that is depreciating while I'm not even driving it doesn't sound like the best idea. Again, that idea was just in my mind because paying for a car I plan to keep for years and be happy with is more satisfying than making payments on a cheap something or other I don't even really like.

So then there's getting something REALLY cheap, cheap enough to not require payments, like lightpants suggested. Well, if I'm going to spend $500 on an old beater that I don't fully know the history of, wouldn't it be a better idea to spend $400 to get my brakes fixed, and then have a car I'm fully familiar with? In either case, I risk spending massive dough only to be in a similar or worse situation in a month or two. I keep rolling the idea around in my head of getting the bare minimum Goodyear suggested done - proportioning valve, cylinders, and drums - for about $400. But then where am I? $400 poorer with a car that's exactly the same as it was three days ago before this happened, and really afraid that something else will happen that'll make that $400 a waste.

That's why I've been considering something new or at least close to it. Just so I can be happy, content, and not worried. The bottom line price isn't everything.

 

[Chryso]

If you are only using it in the summer buy a used motorcycle.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: archcommus
The bottom line price isn't everything.

Well, if price is not a factor, then there's not reason not to buy a new car. But I'm going to say it the third times, your new car depreciate faster than your balance on the loan vs a $10k old civic (no, the price I mentioned are certified in MY AREA like I said). So its not economically sensible to buy a new car...any new car. But if its make you happy and you don't mind paying for it. Then there you have it. You don't really need our opinions because you pretty much made up your mind.

Ohh, just don't come complain about those high gas prices. Enjoy your new ride.

Yea, sell that 92 Sable or whatever crap it is. Its not worth fixing it. See if you can squeeze a couple hundred bucks off the shop.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The brakes "went out" because you let the fluid leak out and the master cylinder sucked air into the system. That's why re-filling the reservoir didn't work.

Rear drums are not "too large", I can't think of a single thing that would be wrong with drums that could be described with a phrase like that.

There is no such thing as a "parking brake line". The parking brake is operated by a cable, not by hydraulics. He may have said that the rear brake lines are shot (which would explain your loss of brake fluid) and that your rear brake shoes, including the parking brake shoes, are shot and need replaced.

It's pretty much impossible to tell, even from your "detailed" description, whether you're being ripped off because it looks like you're not giving us the estimate verbatim. Which bearings? Which valves (engine valves or the brake porportioning valve)?

Struts are about right, they typically die after about 100,000 miles and given the age of your car they're probably pretty far gone.

We'd need the estimate papers from your mechanic to judge.

ZV

Go to another mechanic and get a written invoice of what needs to be fixed.

In your situation, I still think that if you can make a proper decision (with our help) of having certain things fixed, you're better off keeping this car than buying anything else.

 

[archcommus]

iversonyin, I understand where you're coming from. Trust me, I do, and I value your opinion. I know it'll depreciate quickly. I know new cars are not wise decisions purely financially speaking. The ONLY reason I'd be buying new, and a Sonata specifically, is so I can have a car when I graduate that has 8 years of powertrain coverage still left, 3 years of bumper-to-bumper, and with two years of payments already taken care of. If it wasn't for that warranty and long-term plan I wouldn't even dream of buying a new car, let alone right now.

AgaBoogaBoo, at times I agree with you. It feels stupid to ditch this car over brakes. But other times, I'm sick of the worrying and the hassle of going to the shop. But, I got the written invoice you speak of from Goodyear. Here it is:

Service comments:
BRAKE LIGHT ON;PEDAL LOW
NEEDS REAR PROPORTIONING VALVE,REAR WHEEL CYLINDERS,REAR DRUMS,REAR E-BRAKE CABLES,RR STRUT,RF WHEEL BEARING.
ADVISED
CUSTOMER NOT TO DRIVE CAR. CUSTOMER GIVEN ESTIMATE ON REPAIRS &
DECLINDED AT PRESENT TIME.

These Parts And/Or Services Were Declined by the Customer:

1 VP062 VPS Brake Fluid Flus 0.00 0.00 0.00
1 052213 @DESCP052213 28.45 31.50 59.95
1 93543 F BRAKE CABLE 49.47 136.00 185.47
1 93544 F BRAKE CABLE 35.47 0.00 35.47
2 4401462 F BRK/DRUM 70.29 0.00 140.58
2 37668 F WHEEL CYLINDER 17.59 68.00 171.18
1 BR930152K Hub Assy Kit - Front 152.55 136.00 288.55
1 047200 PROPORTIONING VALVE 123.20 68.00 191.20
1 078162 @4 Wheel Alignment 0.00 64.95 64.95
1 71781 RB SENSA-TRAC STRUTS 151.51 122.40 273.91

Keep in mind there are also things wrong with it not even discussed on that invoice. It burns oil and produces a little smoke from under the hood, it stalls a few times after sitting for 5+ hours, and it frequently idles rough (car shakes) and low (like 500 RPMs).

 

[archcommus]

So I didn't want to spend $500 on it and still have other brake problems, stalling, and the rust. I didn't want to spend $1500 on it and still have the rust, and just hope that it lasts me for the rest of the summer. I didn't want to buy an old car with a lot of miles that I wouldn't really like and would still worry about. So I wanted to get new or certified. I went and bought a silver 2007 Cobalt coupe today. Got a good deal, and I can manage the payments. Hopefully I'll use it for at least a few years after I graduate.

I had to make a quick decision to be able to go back to work, and I'm happy with this one.

Thanks for the advice. I know I didn't heed anything about buying an old car or fixing my current one, but like I said before, overall price wasn't the only consideration, my time and peace of mind were very important, as well. I also didn't have time to bring it from mechanic to mechanic, or to search for the perfect used car for weeks. So I got the Cobalt and I like it.