YACT: Dead (kinda) Gauges

[Aquila76]

'96 Pontiac Grand Am SE I4 sedan

I started up my car like I normally do each day; however, all the gauges just bounced up to max and then dropped back down to zero - and stayed there. The Tach, Speedo, Gas, and Temp are all at their lowest settings (as if the car was turned off). The Odometer and Trip odometer still work fine, and the idiot lights are all on as well. The car seems to be running fine with the exception that I have no physical gauge of my speed etc.

I found one reference on some site off of Google that this may relate to the ignition switch; but, there was no reply as to if that fixed it. Have any of you guys experienced something like this? What fixed it? As Memorial Day Weekend is a great time to get bagged for speeding, I'd like to fix this ASAP.

Thanks, guys.

EDIT (BoomerD & MedicBob): I went through the fuses, and all are fine. That was my first thought, too. I pulled and reseated them, just to make sure they didn't rattle loose.

EDIT 2: Battery disconnected for a couple days; gauges still out.

EDIT 3: Yay! Finally resolved!

EDIT 4: For JEDI (too busy 'zwooshing his lightsaber' to read the thread):

Holy crap! Has it really been 4 months that these were dead? I finally got to fixing this. After a bunch of troubleshooting (which I soon found out was a waste of my time) the solution was to replace the gauge cluster (in retrospect, I should have just listened to tfinch2). Apparently in my car model years, 96-98, the BCM is actually located in the gauge cluster. If it gets slightly wonky, you have to replace the entire thing as it is not serviceable. Holland's in Billerica had it for $25. Problem solved!

Oh, as a fun side note, the anti-theft system is built in the gauge pack, too. So if you replace the gauge pack, you're car won't start - but only temporarily. If this system is any indication of other anti-thefts they are a fscking joke! To bypass it, start the car and the ignition will shut off with the 'Theft System' light blinking. Leave it in the run position for 10 minutes (or until the 'Theft System' light will come on solid) then switch it off. Wait 10 seconds and the car will start and function normally from then on.

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Moved to The Garage

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[BoomerD]

bad fuse?

 

[MedicBob]

Second a possible fuse, but adding a relay.

Edit: spellign.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
bad fuse?

I went through the fuses, and all are fine. That was my first thought, too. I pulled and reseated them, just to make sure they didn't rattle loose.

 

[Raduque]

Yank the negative battery cable for 5-10 min and see if that helps.

 

[Eli]

That's fairly strange, and would make me go .

I really know nothing about the electronics of your car, so anything I added would just be a guess. If the fuse that controlled the whole dash was blown, nothing would happen.

I haven't got the slightest clue.

 

[tfinch2]

You can probably buy a gauge cluster at a junkyard for that car for around $15.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: Raduque
Yank the negative battery cable for 5-10 min and see if that helps.

I'll try this out. It is quite possible the computer got glitched.

Originally posted by: tfinch2
You can probably buy a gauge cluster at a junkyard for that car for around $15.

I don't think the gauge pack is dead; it just seems to be locked up. The idiot lights are working, and the gauges sometimes float to max then shut back down on startup.

 

[Aquila76]

OK, the battery was disconnected and the system rundown since Sunday; no dice with the gauges. Anything else I can try?

 

[Aquila76]

I pulled the gauge cluster out, and reseated the cables. Now the car isn't starting. I'm thinking my car is hosed electrically. When it stops raining I'll try to pull through the cablkes to check for issues. With the T-storms off and on around me, I'm not trying that today.

 

[Pepsi90919]

pontiac gauges go to max and then fall to zero upon startup normally... i don't know if a 96 is new enough for that, but it's the most logical explanation...

any codes stored?

 

[BabaBooey]

go to bonnevilleclub.com


Lots of pontiac guys there that will get ya going.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I am unfamiliar with the Grand Am, but the Chryslers made in the same time period usually had two computers, one was for engine control the other was for the electronics inside the car (body computer). If GM had a similar system I would say your body computer has gone bad or is not getting the proper data from the engine computer/sensors.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
pontiac gauges go to max and then fall to zero upon startup normally... i don't know if a 96 is new enough for that, but it's the most logical explanation...

any codes stored?

My car previously would start at zero and creep up to where they're supposed to be (gas & temp at reported level, Speedo @ 0mph, Tach @ 1500rpm, etc.).

No codes, except for the cat's O2 sensor is on the fritz; but, that shouldn't affect the gauges. Besides, it's been reporting that off/on for a couple months or so now. It's on the 'fix list'.

Originally posted by: bababooey
go to bonnevilleclub.com


Lots of pontiac guys there that will get ya going.

Cool, I was looking for someplace like that; but, Google failed me.

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
I am unfamiliar with the Grand Am, but the Chryslers made in the same time period usually had two computers, one was for engine control the other was for the electronics inside the car (body computer). If GM had a similar system I would say your body computer has gone bad or is not getting the proper data from the engine computer/sensors.

I will check that out. I have the Haynes guuide for the car; but, I just haven't had the time to go through it yet. I'll keep an eye out for that, thanks.

 

[Aquila76]

Do any of you car guys know if there's a separate BCM (Body Control Module) in a '96 Grand Am? I think CrakRabbit may be on to something.

There's no mention of it in the Haynes guide I have; but then again, it also has no 2.4L engine wiring diagram (which is the engine I have) and has an incorrect diagram for the instrument cluster panel. WTF did I buy this for? It can't even level my table properly.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Aquila76
Do any of you car guys know if there's a separate BCM (Body Control Module) in a '96 Grand Am? I think CrakRabbit may be on to something.

There's no mention of it in the Haynes guide I have; but then again, it also has no 2.4L engine wiring diagram (which is the engine I have) and has an incorrect diagram for the instrument cluster panel. WTF did I buy this for? It can't even level my table properly.

Just a quick search shows that the BCM should be below the one of the seats on your car.
Should be a Silver or black box with a big wiring connector going into it.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Aquila76
Do any of you car guys know if there's a separate BCM (Body Control Module) in a '96 Grand Am? I think CrakRabbit may be on to something.

There's no mention of it in the Haynes guide I have; but then again, it also has no 2.4L engine wiring diagram (which is the engine I have) and has an incorrect diagram for the instrument cluster panel. WTF did I buy this for? It can't even level my table properly.

Just a quick search shows that the BCM should be below the one of the seats on your car.
Should be a Silver or black box with a big wiring connector going into it.

OK, I'll check that out. Out of curiosity, what did you search for? I Googled 96 Pontiac BCM and 96 Pontiac Body Control Module and the closest thing I could find was a Yahoo! Answers that actually lead to the ECM. At least the Haynes guide had THAT in there.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Aquila76
The Odometer and Trip odometer still work fine, and the idiot lights are all on as well.

At least something works!!

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Aquila76
The Odometer and Trip odometer still work fine, and the idiot lights are all on as well.

At least something works!!

Yeah, that's why I don't think the cluster pack is defective. The directionals, high beam, seatbelt, airbag, trip odometer, and main odometer are all functioning normally. I realize now that these are on a separate circuit from the speed, tach, etc. If the cluster was defective, it would all be dead (at least from what I've pieced together from various websites).

I've also decided that the Haynes / Chilton's guides you can get at AutoZone Advance Auto, etc. are useless. They show all the specs, wiring, and mechanical info except for my model years' Grand Am. They don't even mention the 2.4L I4 engine! 1988-1998 my ass!

 

[Dualist]

Strange, could be a bad working fuse or a glitch in the system.

 

[jwells777]

Yeah, that's why I don't think the cluster pack is defective. The directionals, high beam, seatbelt, airbag, trip odometer, and main odometer are all functioning normally. I realize now that these are on a separate circuit from the speed, tach, etc. If the cluster was defective, it would all be dead (at least from what I've pieced together from various websites).

Track down the factory repair manual if you can. I have always had them from Honda and they are 100x better than the haynes or the like that you find at Autozone. Worth every penny if you do your own car work...

 

[nakedfrog]

Bad ground?

 

[Aquila76]

Ugh, life has sucked mangy goat ass the last couple days. I'll try getting to the bottom of this tomorrow/over the weekend. I had to take the wife to the hospital Tuesday night, so I haven't even looked at it since then.

 

[Aquila76]

Holy crap! Has it really been 4 months that these were dead? I finally got to fixing this. After a bunch of troubleshooting (which I soon found out was a waste of my time) the solution was to replace the gauge cluster (in retrospect, I should have just listened to tfinch2). Apparently in my car model years, 96-98, the BCM is actually located in the gauge cluster. If it gets slightly wonky, you have to replace the entire thing as it is not serviceable. Holland's in Billerica had it for $25. Problem solved!

Oh, as a fun side note, the anti-theft system is built in the gauge pack, too. So if you replace the gauge pack, you're car won't start - but only temporarily. If this system is any indication of other anti-thefts they are a fscking joke! To bypass it, start the car and the ignition will shut off with the 'Theft System' light blinking. Leave it in the run position for 10 minutes (or until the 'Theft System' light will come on solid) then switch it off. Wait 10 seconds and the car will start and function normally from then on.

 

[ViviTheMage]

wow 25$ for a gauge cluster? pretty sure mines in the multiple hundreds haha