YACT: The Cost of Supercars

[kevinthenerd]

Why are super sports cars so expensive? For the price of a Lamborghini, you can get 20 economy cars, 10 sport compacts, or 5 pretty good luxury cars. Somehow I don't think it's entirely based on supply and demand. There's got to be something else to it.

I'm not asking for general things such as "quality" or "name recognition," but I want something more specific. For instance, a good example of why they're so expensive could be that 12-cylinder motors have three times the cylinders (and therefore three times the valves, cranks, valvesprings, etc.) as four-cylinder motors. Another reason could be the wanton use of exotic materials.

I don't know. It still doesn't quite add up to me.

 

[Mill]

Same reason Hermes can charge 400 dollars for a 5 dollar bag. Or that Gucci can charge 1000 dollars for 20 dollar leather slippers.

 

[acemcmac]

"this just may be the best car in the world" - Clarkson

Watch some more top gear and then you'd understand

 

[Crucial]

Hand built supercars built for the ultimate in performance sparing no expense on materials and workmanship. Whats so hard to understand?

 

[feelingshorter]

bugatti....two 8 cylinder engines to make a dual 16 cylinder car. Hella fast and and costs 840k pounds. 1001 HP. Heck that thing has more HP than an Abrams tank.

Rich people that can afford to buy expensive fast toys will. If you were rich then it wouldnt matter. Theres no need to justify anything.

 

[kevinthenerd]

What would stop someone from making a great car cheaply? It doesn't add up to me. There must be high profit margins in the industry.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Low volume.

 

[JLGatsby]

Three factors come into play.

1. The cost of sales. With high end cars you get top notch service. Ever been to a Ferrari dealer? It's nicer than your house. Nothing like a typical dealer.

2. The cost and quality of parts. High end cars use the best parts in the cars. But often times these parts still are faulty simply because they're cutting edge and they haven't been perfected yet.

3. Cost of engineering. It takes some smart people to build a 500hp engine from scratch. You'd be amazed at how technologically advances some exotic car engines are compared to normal car engines.

Overall the profit margins are not that high believe it or not.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
What would stop someone from making a great car cheaply? It doesn't add up to me. There must be high profit margins in the industry.

That has been tried and the best results so far have been the Chevy Corvette. Over 500hp and only costs abnout $60k.

But ofcourse the compromise is that the interior is crap. Cheap leather and interior detailing. Crappy interior technology that is identical to what is found is all other GM models. The outside and engine parts are also of inferior quality and also identical to other GM cars.

 

[loic2003]

-More expensive materials (lightweight alloys and metals, eg the F1 had pure gold foil in the engine bay)
-More expensive to develop (more design in wind tunnels, track suspension tuning, redevelopment, etc)
-Often hand build instead on in a production line
-Much fewer models built
-To prevent poor people buying them and keeping the cars as dreamcars and hence desirable. If you could buy a Ferrari for 20K, enveryone would have them, and people would desire whatever's out there for 500,000. Think about first class in an aircraft, it's stll the same plane and you're taking up maybe 50% more room than economy seats, yet the tickets are several times the price of a regular seat.

What amazes me is the sheer volume of hugely expensive toys out there. Think of the private jets/boats/supercars/helicopters... there are a hell of a lot of rich people out there.....

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Low volume.

:thumbsup: They have to make back the R&D cost from less cars.

 

[Amused]

The best reply to that is this: If you can build a comparable car cheaper, do it.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: feelingshorter
bugatti....two 8 cylinder engines to make a dual 16 cylinder car. Hella fast and and costs 840k pounds. 1001 HP. Heck that thing has more HP than an Abrams tank.

No.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: feelingshorter
bugatti....two 8 cylinder engines to make a dual 16 cylinder car. Hella fast and and costs 840k pounds. 1001 HP. Heck that thing has more HP than an Abrams tank.

Rich people that can afford to buy expensive fast toys will. If you were rich then it wouldnt matter. Theres no need to justify anything.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Take something simple, such as an engine mount. Not a complex item. Not a ton of engineering involved. The tooling involved for casting that engine mount is about the same if you make 1 or 10,000 (above that, you start needing more of them, or using longer lasting materials, etc..., but that's cheaper than the first). So if you make 10,000 cars, the tooling costs $20,000, you paid someone $4,000 to design the part and the tooling, the material costs $5/part, and all the other labor involved is about $5/part, then it costs you $124,000 to make the lot, or $12.40 per part. Not bad, pretty cheap. But if you only made 100 of those parts, it costs you $34,000 for the lot, or $340/part.

Gets expensive fast, doesn't it?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

But the QUOTED post said the Bugatti had more HP, which it doesn't.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

I doubt the Abrams engine produces more torque (before tranny), either.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
What would stop someone from making a great car cheaply? It doesn't add up to me. There must be high profit margins in the industry.

it's easy to build a great car for a lot of money. it's really hard to build a great car cheaply.

i think lee iaccoca said that, and i'll take his word over yours

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

I doubt the Abrams engine produces more torque (before tranny), either.

"The engine is a Avco Lycoming ATG-1500 gas turbine engine. This modified helicopter engine produces 1500 hp and 3800 ft. lb. of torque. The M1 has a high horsepower to weight ration giving it the ability to got from 0-20 mph in 6 seconds."

 

[BurnItDwn]

Here's one of the reasons, it should be blatently obvious, but I'll play captain of the obvious today.

It costs a LOT to build, maintain, tool a manufacturing plant.
With greater volume the cost per unit generally goes down.
With low volume the cost per unit generally goes up.

Supercars are often not made in huge numbers, so they will cost more to make, even if all other factors were identicle to other cars.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Amused
The best reply to that is this: If you can build a comparable car cheaper, do it.

That would be the Z06

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
What would stop someone from making a great car cheaply? It doesn't add up to me. There must be high profit margins in the industry.

That has been tried and the best results so far have been the Chevy Corvette. Over 500hp and only costs abnout $60k.

But ofcourse the compromise is that the interior is crap. Cheap leather and interior detailing. Crappy interior technology that is identical to what is found is all other GM models. The outside and engine parts are also of inferior quality and also identical to other GM cars.

the LS6/LS2 is an inferior engine???? what the HELL are you smoking?

have you ever sat in the new Vette? i have, i havent played with it like i did the tahoe, but its an extreme improvement. its not the best stuff ive ever seen, but its a nice interior. there is such a thing as interior technology??? and yet again, there isnt much shared on the interior of the vette that is in other GM vehicles (not sure on radio, i dont remember it much).

all you have and all you ever will be is a poster of misinformation.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

I doubt the Abrams engine produces more torque (before tranny), either.

considering the abrams has considerably more torque off idle than the diesel used in the challenger 2 tank, i think the abrams has the bugatti beat.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
the LS6/LS2 is an inferior engine???? what the HELL are you smoking?

have you ever sat in the new Vette? i have, i havent played with it like i did the tahoe, but its an extreme improvement. its not the best stuff ive ever seen, but its a nice interior. there is such a thing as interior technology??? and yet again, there isnt much shared on the interior of the vette that is in other GM vehicles (not sure on radio, i dont remember it much).

all you have and all you ever will be is a poster of misinformation.

The LS6/LS2 is inferior to the Ferrari in terms of quality. Don't judge it solely by performance.

Yes I have sat in a new Corvette, they are just a mash up of different crap GM parts.

When I speak of interior technology I'm speak of transmission options, electronics (Navigation, stereo, etc).

The leather in the Corvette is cheap compared to a Ferrari.

Have you ever sat in a new Ferrari? There is a "feel" about everything in it that screams quality. You can knock on some things in a Corvette and they feel hollow and plastic. Nothing like that in a Ferrari.