YAGBT: Does everyone think that these times are a wake up call?

[ironcrotch]

I'm watching the news and gas prices shot up in many areas $0.50 in a matter of minutes. And now there are "shortages" where people are apparently being turned away.

I mean, who elses is getting sick of all this gas bullshat, cuz all you're really doing is filling the pockets of some dude in the middle east, or some OPEC fat cat. Lately everytime I fill up my car I get queazy thinking that I'm just a sucker in this game and under their complete control.

So as pricing goes, many areas in the country have hit broken $3 barrier and it's not likely going down, since we are already willing to pay that much and more.

The idea of getting an alternative car, like a diesel car that will run biodiesel. But what will it take for people to want to ditch the petrol car?

and for anyone that says biodiesel isnt worth it cuz it takes too much to create, i'd rather pay 3 dollars for a gallon of biodesiel and help out a farmer in the US, than 3 dollars to help out OPEC and their kids.

 

[mercanucaribe]

BIodiesel is impractical right now. To use biodiesel instead of diesel and gasoline would take a HUGE amount of farmland, I believe double the current. The only good option is nuclear power. Wind power is feasible. I think Denmark has a lot of wind power because it's managed by local communities...

 

[OulOat]

I'm buying stock on gerbil powered vehicles

 

[ironcrotch]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
BIodiesel is impractical right now. To use biodiesel instead of diesel and gasoline would take a HUGE amount of farmland, I believe double the current. The only good option is nuclear power.

Everything seems to be impractical when it first comes out. I mean for something to take off, it will cost a bit at first, but with economies of scale and everything it should go down with good investment.

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: ironcrotch

The idea of getting an alternative car, like a diesel car that will run biodiesel. But what will it take for people to want to ditch the petrol car?

and for anyone that says biodiesel isnt worth it cuz it takes too much to create, i'd rather pay 3 dollars for a gallon of biodesiel and help out a farmer in the US, than 3 dollars to help out OPEC and their kids.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html

Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Berkeley, conducted a detailed analysis of the energy input-yield ratios of producing ethanol from corn, switch grass and wood biomass as well as for producing biodiesel from soybean and sunflower plants. Their report is published in Natural Resources Research (Vol. 14:1, 65-76).

In terms of energy output compared with energy input for ethanol production, the study found that:

* corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;
* switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced; and
* wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

Biodiesel increases the amount of foreign oil we have to import.

 

[ironcrotch]

Originally posted by: klah

Originally posted by: ironcrotch

The idea of getting an alternative car, like a diesel car that will run biodiesel. But what will it take for people to want to ditch the petrol car?

and for anyone that says biodiesel isnt worth it cuz it takes too much to create, i'd rather pay 3 dollars for a gallon of biodesiel and help out a farmer in the US, than 3 dollars to help out OPEC and their kids.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html

Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Berkeley, conducted a detailed analysis of the energy input-yield ratios of producing ethanol from corn, switch grass and wood biomass as well as for producing biodiesel from soybean and sunflower plants. Their report is published in Natural Resources Research (Vol. 14:1, 65-76).

In terms of energy output compared with energy input for ethanol production, the study found that:

* corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;
* switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced; and
* wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

Biodiesel increases the amount of foreign oil we have to import.

ahhhhhh, we don't need more problems. We need solutions! Everyone can be a critic. We need problem solvers.

 

[klah]

We have a solution, build dozens of nuclear plants to produce H2 via electrolysis. In the short term less morons buying 12mpg suvs to take to the grocery store and get flowers at home depot would help.

 

[Fritzo]

If we had an alternative fuel that was practical at this point, we'd be using it. But right now:

Electric: too $$$- long charge times
Solar: not enough power
biodiesel: take more energy to produce than output
hydrogen: more energy is used in gas extraction than is given
fuel cells: too $$$

 

[ironcrotch]

Whatever happened to those dudes that produced those engines that ran on water?

 

[mchammer]

What kind of BS avatar is that??

 

[ironcrotch]

Originally posted by: mchammer
What kind of BS avatar is that??

:lips:

 

[AbAbber2k]

I still think the best energy investment we can make is to utilize abundant energy (solar, tidal) to produce other forms of fuel that are currently more viable. ie: use solar/tidal energy to produce hydrogen fuel. We have solar power but not enough to fullfill demand, and the concepts for producing tidal energy are still immature. Fortunately, advances in solar cell technology and other areas are bringing this closer to reality.

 

[Crappopotamus]

i want my next car to be nuclear powered.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
hydrogen: more energy is used in gas extraction than is given

Doesn't a nuclear fusion reaction give off hydrogen? So if we developed the technology to produce a stable nuclear fusion power plant, we're killing 2 birds with 1 stone? Or am I way off base with this?

-Tom

 

[MiranoPoncho]

3.59 a gallon here. funny, it was 259 monday...
When it hits 4 bucks a gallon, I'm biking where I go.

 

[acemcmac]

Bush pulled funding from the NASA prototype microwave power (think sim city) satalite program for his stupid mars mission :|

They were going to have a working prototype by next year

 

[Crescent13]

Originally posted by: ironcrotch
I'm watching the news and gas prices shot up in many areas $0.50 in a matter of minutes. And now there are "shortages" where people are apparently being turned away.

I mean, who elses is getting sick of all this gas bullshat, cuz all you're really doing is filling the pockets of some dude in the middle east, or some OPEC fat cat. Lately everytime I fill up my car I get queazy thinking that I'm just a sucker in this game and under their complete control.

So as pricing goes, many areas in the country have hit broken $3 barrier and it's not likely going down, since we are already willing to pay that much and more.

The idea of getting an alternative car, like a diesel car that will run biodiesel. But what will it take for people to want to ditch the petrol car?

and for anyone that says biodiesel isnt worth it cuz it takes too much to create, i'd rather pay 3 dollars for a gallon of biodesiel and help out a farmer in the US, than 3 dollars to help out OPEC and their kids.

Will you NEVER stop changing your avatar? sheesh. I've been riding my bike ALOT more recently. I'm just getting prepared in case people stop making cars because of gas prices getting too high.

 

[iamtrout]

We REALLY need to get set on a form of renewable energy, like solar, wind, and water. I'm leaning more towards solar and researching efficiency.

Do nuclear in the short term to have enough energy to construct the solar panels, then switch completely to solar. I understand that solar would require an IMMENSE amount of area to produce enough energy to power the nation, miles upon miles, but I think we need to just grit our teeth, get it done, and then we'll be set. Forever. Things like hydrogen have such a fundamental flaw that I don't understand why people are going for it. It takes energy to produce, and it always will! Solar, wind, and water, on the other hand, just require a hefty initial investment, and then it's smooth sailing. The energy is already there and simply require harnessing, unlike hydrogen where one has to first produce the hydrogen and then harness it.

It's kinda like putting a big giant fan on a sailboat and using the fan to produce the wind to drive the sails... flawed.

 

[Sentinel]

we have 40 years of oil in reserve, tap that sh!te already!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[conjur]

More like it's time to rethink the entire American way of life.

Suburbs/exurbs and the McMansions therein and the 30-40 mile commutes one way in SUVs and 4,000lb sedans.

That's a lot of gas being used up.

It looks like it's time to retrench and become more European as far as housing goes. Concentrate housing around the cities, more densely, with buses, trains, bicycle lanes and leave the open expanses open.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: Fritzo
hydrogen: more energy is used in gas extraction than is given

Doesn't a nuclear fusion reaction give off hydrogen? So if we developed the technology to produce a stable nuclear fusion power plant, we're killing 2 birds with 1 stone? Or am I way off base with this?

-Tom

Fusion is a long way off. Even if huge amounts of money were poured into research, it would still be decades before we had a useable reactor and even longer before our infrastructure was changed so that cars could run on electricity.

 

[Blayze]

Originally posted by: Sentinel
we have 40 years of oil in reserve, tap that sh!te already!!!!!!!!!!!!

seriously? if so then they really need to release some of it.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: ironcrotch

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
BIodiesel is impractical right now. To use biodiesel instead of diesel and gasoline would take a HUGE amount of farmland, I believe double the current. The only good option is nuclear power.

Everything seems to be impractical when it first comes out. I mean for something to take off, it will cost a bit at first, but with economies of scale and everything it should go down with good investment.

Economies of scale won't reduce the amount of land required for biodiesel. The only thing that will is the oily algae scheme, if you believe in that.

 

[mchammer]

Originally posted by: conjur
More like it's time to rethink the entire American way of life.

Suburbs/exurbs and the McMansions therein and the 30-40 mile commutes one way in SUVs and 4,000lb sedans.

That's a lot of gas being used up.

It looks like it's time to retrench and become more European as far as housing goes. Concentrate housing around the cities, more densely, with buses, trains, bicycle lanes and leave the open expanses open.

So turn the country into New Jersey?

 

[Trevelyan]

The only plausible solution I can come up with is:

1) Continue coal burning (since we have ~25 years left before the peak of its extraction), and even build coal-firing plants to cover us in the short term.

2) Invest as much as possible in new power plant planning, design and construction.

For the second step, use this: http://news.com.com/Sandia+pushes+limit...ar+technology/2100-7337_3-5466122.html

From the article: "The net solar-to-electricity conversion is 30 percent, which is substantially higher than what photovoltaic cells are capable of."

And: "Hypothetically, a solar-dish farm covering 11 square miles could produce as much electricity per year as the Hoover Dam."

And: "Liden said these prototype systems cost about $150,000. Once built in production, the cost could go down to $50,000 per unit, which would be competitive with some commonly used fuels."


My thoughts: the problem with photovoltaic systems is that they are very complicated and expensive to make, and due to their complexity, they break down over time. (They require a lot of silver to make as well.) BUT, these new systems are just basically mirrors and Stirling engines, powered by the heat of the sun. It's really efficient, and a much more simple design. And simplicity means ease of use and more stability.