YAGT: 6mm vs. 5.56mm *Poll*

[arcenite]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
7.62x63

ak47 baby

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

The Russians seem to like it well enough, so did the British (.303).

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

And as I'm sure your brilliantly educated mind knows, its impossible to EVER modify a cartidge in ANY way....

Regardless of what you like to think, the 7.62x54 is a viable round for most applications. Dont believe me? Its been heavily used in Soviet Bloc countries since before you dad was even producing little crooked tail sperm.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

The Russians seem to like it well enough, so did the British (.303).

Hmmm....and look how far they went....and the Brits don't use .303 anymore. I have an Enfield that is .303 and the damn thing has feeding problems occasionally and it's a bolt action and was brand new in the grease when I got it.

 

[Ronstang]

don't ask

 

[Ronstang]

Why is this happening lately?

 

[Shockwave]

Ron, multiple posts dont strengthen your argument any

I'm not saying it doesnt have some level of problems. But quite honestly ALL cartidge sizes have SOME type of problem. There is no perfect gun (Although IMO a 300 Weatherby Mag is a real close runner).
My point is the round has been proven in combat and civilian applications. With minor modifications it could be a very effective round. Hell, I've managed to jam about every gun I've ever shot at one point or another. Including Colts, Glocks and other "high end" guns. In fact, the only gun I have NEVER EVER jammed was my dads ole .44 Mag Dragoon revolver.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

And as I'm sure your brilliantly educated mind knows, its impossible to EVER modify a cartidge in ANY way....

Regardless of what you like to think, the 7.62x54 is a viable round for most applications. Dont believe me? Its been heavily used in Soviet Bloc countries since before you dad was even producing little crooked tail sperm.

Hey, Mr. Witty, if you modify the round then it won't be 7.62x54 and guess what?......you would end up with something approximately like .308 which NATO already uses so what is the point? Damn you gun fanboys are as bad as the little riceboys.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

The Russians seem to like it well enough, so did the British (.303).

Hmmm....and look how far they went....and the Brits don't use .303 anymore. I have an Enfield that is .303 and the damn thing has feeding problems occasionally and it's a bolt action and was brand new in the grease when I got it.

The .303 served the Brits quite well for decades. The Bren gun happens to be one of the best light machine guns of it's time.

I have a couple of Enfields as well. The only feed problems I have is with the mag on one of them. I just haven't replaced it yet. Personally, the Enfield action is my very favorite of all bolt actions.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

And as I'm sure your brilliantly educated mind knows, its impossible to EVER modify a cartidge in ANY way....

Regardless of what you like to think, the 7.62x54 is a viable round for most applications. Dont believe me? Its been heavily used in Soviet Bloc countries since before you dad was even producing little crooked tail sperm.

Hey, Mr. Witty, if you modify the round then it won't be 7.62x54 and guess what?......you would end up with something approximately like .308 which NATO already uses so what is the point? Damn you gun fanboys are as bad as the little riceboys.

Theres a gun "boi" here but it aint me. I'll make it simple.
Your right. 7.62x54 is a horrible round with no combat experience and isnt viable for any application other then antique collecting.
Is that better for you?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

The Russians seem to like it well enough, so did the British (.303).

Hmmm....and look how far they went....and the Brits don't use .303 anymore. I have an Enfield that is .303 and the damn thing has feeding problems occasionally and it's a bolt action and was brand new in the grease when I got it.

The .303 served the Brits quite well for decades. The Bren gun happens to be one of the best light machine guns of it's time.

I have a couple of Enfields as well. The only feed problems I have is with the mag on one of them. I just haven't replaced it yet. Personally, the Enfield action is my very favorite of all bolt actions.

I love my Enfield, and you are right I probably need a new mag for it. The Enfields action is quite nice and the Bren gun is an awesome weapon and I am planning on building one sometime in the near future as the parts kits are quite easy to come by right now but rimmed cartridges are a thing of the past and need to stay that way.

 

[Gyrene]

Goddammit, the question doesn't even involve the use of the 7.62mm. Shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: dtyn
Goddammit, the question doesn't even involve the use of the 7.62mm. Shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.

Why not? Hell, just make it simple, roll back to the old Nato cartridge...7.62x51mm if memory serves.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

And as I'm sure your brilliantly educated mind knows, its impossible to EVER modify a cartidge in ANY way....

Regardless of what you like to think, the 7.62x54 is a viable round for most applications. Dont believe me? Its been heavily used in Soviet Bloc countries since before you dad was even producing little crooked tail sperm.

Hey, Mr. Witty, if you modify the round then it won't be 7.62x54 and guess what?......you would end up with something approximately like .308 which NATO already uses so what is the point? Damn you gun fanboys are as bad as the little riceboys.

Theres a gun "boi" here but it aint me. I'll make it simple.
Your right. 7.62x54 is a horrible round with no combat experience and isnt viable for any application other then antique collecting.
Is that better for you?

Is it possible for you to post something without sounding like a complete arrogant jackass? Is that the way you have to act to compensate? You don't bother to ever read anything anyone else writes so go ahead an live in your own little world. I never said that 7.62x54 was not a good round.....but technology has eclipsed it and it is time to move on, hell I have two 400 round tins of it in the corner but I wouldn't carry it into battle today.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: edro13

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
5.56mm NATO ammo = cheap, readily available worldwide. End of story.

zactly.

x3

Personally, scale that bish up to 7.62x54mm The Dragunov platform was very successful, if not all too common.

Hey Einstein.....7.62x54 is out of the stone age considering it is a rimmed cartridge and thus problematic on feeding mechanisms on auto/semi-auto weapons. Nostalgia is one thing......reliability is another, plus 5.56 is much lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo. I have a Moisen Nagant but my AR-15 is a much better all around weapon.

The Russians seem to like it well enough, so did the British (.303).

Hmmm....and look how far they went....and the Brits don't use .303 anymore. I have an Enfield that is .303 and the damn thing has feeding problems occasionally and it's a bolt action and was brand new in the grease when I got it.

The .303 served the Brits quite well for decades. The Bren gun happens to be one of the best light machine guns of it's time.

I have a couple of Enfields as well. The only feed problems I have is with the mag on one of them. I just haven't replaced it yet. Personally, the Enfield action is my very favorite of all bolt actions.

I love my Enfield, and you are right I probably need a new mag for it. The Enfields action is quite nice and the Bren gun is an awesome weapon and I am planning on building one sometime in the near future as the parts kits are quite easy to come by right now but rimmed cartridges are a thing of the past and need to stay that way.

True, the rimmed cartridges have been eclipsed by the non-rimmed ones. It definitely does make designing the weapon much easier. I bet some of the Russian and British weapons designers had nightmares about the rimmed cartridges.

 

[Shockwave]

.

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: dtyn
Goddammit, the question doesn't even involve the use of the 7.62mm. Shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.

Why not? Hell, just make it simple, roll back to the old Nato cartridge...7.62x51mm if memory serves.

Cost, weight (of ammo and of rifle), and recoil. Granted, the 7.62NATO has much greater penetration and range, but with the 6mmSPC you basically get the benifits of the 5.56mm and close to the penetration and range of a 7.62NATO.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: dtyn
Goddammit, the question doesn't even involve the use of the 7.62mm. Shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.

Why not? Hell, just make it simple, roll back to the old Nato cartridge...7.62x51mm if memory serves.

Cost, weight (of ammo and of rifle), and recoil. Granted, the 7.62NATO has much greater penetration and range, but with the 6mmSPC you basically get the benifits of the 5.56mm and closer to the penetration and range of a 7.62NATO.

Eh. I just have a thing with big mean nasty guns.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: dtyn
Goddammit, the question doesn't even involve the use of the 7.62mm. Shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.

Why not? Hell, just make it simple, roll back to the old Nato cartridge...7.62x51mm if memory serves.

Cost, weight (of ammo and of rifle), and recoil. Granted, the 7.62NATO has much greater penetration and range, but with the 6mmSPC you basically get the benifits of the 5.56mm and close to the penetration and range of a 7.62NATO.

AR10?

 

[Mookow]

In regards to the XM8, they are going to have to do something about the carbine half. 5.56 NATO bullets coming out of a 10.5" barrel just arent going fast enough to fragment after impact, and lets face it, thats all a 223 has over a 22, velocity, and the effects of added velocity have on terminal ballistics. With current loads, 14" seems to be the minumum to get acceptable performance out of the 5.56 (using military loads).

 

[Mookow]

Can you people quit quoting 8 posts everytime you post? Most of them arent topical, its annoying, cuts down on thread readability, and I hate scrolling to the side.

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Mookow
In regards to the XM8, they are going to have to do something about the carbine half. 5.56 NATO bullets coming out of a 10.5" barrel just arent going fast enough to fragment after impact, and lets face it, thats all a 223 has over a 22, velocity, and the effects of added velocity have on terminal ballistics. With current loads, 14" seems to be the minumum to get acceptable performance out of the 5.56 (using military loads).

The XM8 Combat has a 12.5" barrel, the XM8 SAW has a 20.0" barrel as does the XM8 Sharpshooter. ARL has already dtermined that the 12.5" barrel will deliver better accuracy and lethatlity than the M16 up to 300 meters. Pack it with the 6mm SPC, and you almost double the effectiveness of the XM8.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Mookow
Can you people quit quoting 8 posts everytime you post? Most of them arent topical, its annoying, cuts down on thread readability, and I hate scrolling to the side.

True. I fixed mine.

 

[UpGrD]

ak47 baby

AK's are great in the field weapons, but as someone that was trained to fire both the AK47's and M16A1/A2, I'll take accuracy of fire over long range stopping power any time. Even a trained shooter will find it very difficult to hit anything with the AK47 in short burst's never mind full auto. You cant stop it if you cant hit it. The AK74 family (5.56mm)are pretty good weapons though. Having said that, if I had to clear a room the AK47 would be a good choice.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: UpGrD

ak47 baby

AK's are great in the field weapons, but as someone that was trained to fire both the AK47's and M16A1/A2, I'll take accuracy of fire over long range stopping power any time. Even a trained shooter will find it very difficult to hit anything with the AK47 in short burst's never mind full auto. You cant stop it if you cant hit it. The AK74 family (5.56mm)are pretty good weapons though. Having said that, if I had to clear a room the AK47 would be a good choice.

*heh* Thats a WHOLE nother can o worms there, the AK47 vs M16 argument! Lets not EVEn start that one. New thread!