YAGT: 6mm vs. 5.56mm *Poll*

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Mookow
In regards to the XM8, they are going to have to do something about the carbine half. 5.56 NATO bullets coming out of a 10.5" barrel just arent going fast enough to fragment after impact, and lets face it, thats all a 223 has over a 22, velocity, and the effects of added velocity have on terminal ballistics. With current loads, 14" seems to be the minumum to get acceptable performance out of the 5.56 (using military loads).

The XM8 Combat has a 12.5" barrel, the XM8 SAW has a 20.0" barrel as does the XM8 Sharpshooter. ARL has already dtermined that the 12.5" barrel will deliver better accuracy and lethatlity than the M16 up to 300 meters. Pack it with the 6mm SPC, and you almost double the effectiveness of the XM8.

Well, last time I had looked at it (a while ago), they were still going to use the 10.5" barrel.

 

[thenerdguy]

Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
7.62x63

ak47 baby

Nope ak-47 762x39

and for the guy saying 556 is better than 762x54 needs to see whats left of some thats been shot by a 762x54. the 556 zips right through and can kill. A 762x54 blows through taking a hunk bigger than your fist with it.

Besides have you guys been listening about how the M16 has been crapping out on troops in Iraq? (jamming i mean)

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Mookow
In regards to the XM8, they are going to have to do something about the carbine half. 5.56 NATO bullets coming out of a 10.5" barrel just arent going fast enough to fragment after impact, and lets face it, thats all a 223 has over a 22, velocity, and the effects of added velocity have on terminal ballistics. With current loads, 14" seems to be the minumum to get acceptable performance out of the 5.56 (using military loads).

The XM8 Combat has a 12.5" barrel, the XM8 SAW has a 20.0" barrel as does the XM8 Sharpshooter. ARL has already dtermined that the 12.5" barrel will deliver better accuracy and lethatlity than the M16 up to 300 meters. Pack it with the 6mm SPC, and you almost double the effectiveness of the XM8.

Well, last time I had looked at it (a while ago), they were still going to use the 10.5" barrel.

You might have seen something about the XM8 PDW, which uses a 9.5" barrel. That's specifically for personal defense, not for active field use.

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: thenerdguy



Nope ak-47 762x39

and for the guy saying 556 is better than 762x54 needs to see whats left of some thats been shot by a 762x54. the 556 zips right through and can kill. A 762x54 blows through taking a hunk bigger than your fist with it.

Besides have you guys been listening about how the M16 has been crapping out on troops in Iraq? (jamming i mean)

Which has nothing to do with the caliber, but the design of the gun. That's one reason they have been designing the XM8.

 

[Shockwave]

In the end it doesnt matter does it? I thought you guys could kill with your bare hands, move like ghosts and catch bullets in your teeth.... Quit yer bitchin about needin a gun and sharpen up that K-Bar!!

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
In the end it doesnt matter does it? I thought you guys could kill with your bare hands, move like ghosts and catch bullets in your teeth.... Quit yer bitchin about needin a gun and sharpen up that K-Bar!!

LMAO! I concede to your flagrant ego-boosting.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
In the end it doesnt matter does it? I thought you guys could kill with your bare hands, move like ghosts and catch bullets in your teeth.... Quit yer bitchin about needin a gun and sharpen up that K-Bar!!

Nah, sharpen up the E-tool.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
7.62x63

ak47 baby

no, that would be 7.62x39

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: K1052
Forcing the change down on NATO countries is going to be a much harder than in the past. If they also decide that it is better to give up the 5.56, then great.

I am just unsure how many NATO countries will want to make the change.

We already moved to the POS 9x19mm to appease them.

 

[thenerdguy]

What im say is that the M16 needs to go, my brother who got back from iraq last year said that people had trouble taking down targets, shooting mutiple times and hitting but the target wouldnt go down.

Plus if the M16 gets a little dirty it will jam. I have an HKG3A3 and an ak-47, i would take eather one over the m16.

The 556 doesnt have much take down power, The 762x39 and 54 do.

I used to own a AR 15 and i hated it, but to keep up the the nato standard ill get an Ak-74.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: thenerdguy
What im say is that the M16 needs to go, my brother who got back from iraq last year said that people had trouble taking down targets, shooting mutiple times and hitting but the target would go down.

Plus if the M16 gets a little dirty it will jam. I have an HKG3A3 and an ak-47, i would take eather one over the m16.

The 556 doesnt have much take down power, The 762x39 and 54 do.

I used to own a AR 15 and i hated it, but to keep up the the nato standard ill get an Ak-74.

AK-74 uses the 5.45mm round, not 5.56mm

EDIT: get an AR-10

 

[thenerdguy]

hello get a american rebuilt ak 74. 5.56.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: K1052
Forcing the change down on NATO countries is going to be a much harder than in the past. If they also decide that it is better to give up the 5.56, then great.

I am just unsure how many NATO countries will want to make the change.

We already moved to the POS 9x19mm to appease them.

I was thinking of the 7.62x51 vs. intermediate cartridge debate. We did end up forcing that on them.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: thenerdguy
hello get a american rebuilt ak 74. 5.56.

I'll take an AR-10, thank you.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: K1052
Forcing the change down on NATO countries is going to be a much harder than in the past. If they also decide that it is better to give up the 5.56, then great.

I am just unsure how many NATO countries will want to make the change.

We already moved to the POS 9x19mm to appease them.

I was thinking of the 7.62x51 vs. intermediate cartridge debate. We did end up forcing that on them.

Well, as far as that goes, I dont think it should have been done. But a 7.62 isnt the best choice out there, either, since your average Army private doesnt hit very reliably at 800 yards.

(Thinks of Bellau Wood) Maybe just let the Marines use 7.62s?

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: K1052
Forcing the change down on NATO countries is going to be a much harder than in the past. If they also decide that it is better to give up the 5.56, then great.

I am just unsure how many NATO countries will want to make the change.

We already moved to the POS 9x19mm to appease them.

I was thinking of the 7.62x51 vs. intermediate cartridge debate. We did end up forcing that on them.

Well, as far as that goes, I dont think it should have been done. But a 7.62 isnt the best choice out there, either, since your average Army private doesnt hit very reliably at 800 yards.

(Thinks of Belleau Wood) Maybe just let the Marines use 7.62s?

That's how we became known as the Devil Dogs.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Gyrene

Originally posted by: MookowWell, as far as that goes, I dont think it should have been done. But a 7.62 isnt the best choice out there, either, since your average Army private doesnt hit very reliably at 800 yards.

(Thinks of Belleau Wood) Maybe just let the Marines use 7.62s?

That's how we became known as the Devil Dogs.

Technically, though, that was 30-06's for the Springfield 1903's, not .308's. Though I'd give a lot to see the look on the Germans face when they finally realized that the fire they were taking was from the actual Marine lines from the marines in the trenches, and not from snipers deployed forward of the lines.

 

[Brutuskend]

7.62 full metal jacket (Ball round)

That's what I trained with in the Corps! It was heavy and it kicked the crap out of you, and we were glad to have it, and we LIKED IT that way! We also marched up hill both ways, in the snow... etc.

USMC 1971-1975

 

[Cable God]

Give me a Springfield M14 ANY day over a puny 5.56mm. I would take my OWN guns into battle if I were set into combat, or grab one of those AK's from the other side's fallen. .223 is a prarie dog stopper, not a man stopper. I say give 'em compact 7.62mm Nato battle rifles, AND Glock 29's (10mm) for side arms.

 

[BuckNaked]

Gyrene,
Sent you a couple of links if you are seriously looking for more info on the 6.8x43 SPC, as well as an article on ballistic and wounding characteristics of several common military rounds... let me know if you have any other questions, and I will do my best to point you in the right direction..

Dave

 

[Wintermute76]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: thenerdguy
hello get a american rebuilt ak 74. 5.56.

I'll take an AR-10, thank you.

AR-10? nah...FN FAL

 

[Wintermute76]

Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
7.62x63

ak47 baby

nope, 7.62x63 = .30-06 Springfield , M1 Garand and Springfield 1903

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: thenerdguy
What im say is that the M16 needs to go, my brother who got back from iraq last year said that people had trouble taking down targets, shooting mutiple times and hitting but the target wouldnt go down.

That's because they are using armor piercing bullets on targets that aren't wearing armor. They go straight through with very little exit damage.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: cablegod
Give me a Springfield M14 ANY day over a puny 5.56mm. I would take my OWN guns into battle if I were set into combat, or grab one of those AK's from the other side's fallen. .223 is a prarie dog stopper, not a man stopper. I say give 'em compact 7.62mm Nato battle rifles, AND Glock 29's (10mm) for side arms.

If you issue 10mm pistols, you are going to have problems qualifying people, just because women and smaller guys arent going to deal with the recoil well and arent going to practice as much as with the 9mm. Though it would make the 10mm a more attractive caliber for civilians, as the ammo prices would drop quite a bit.

Hmmm... I'm starting to like this idea more...

 

Originally posted by: thenerdguy
hello get a american rebuilt ak 74. 5.56.

How many times must this be said. Its getting on my nerves...the AK-74 is 5.45, not 5.56. They are NOT the same.