Replies in bold. I was trying to be nice with you Mr Asshat, but the gloves are off now.
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So, we'll go with "yes" then.
Now I see why you got your ass handed to you so badly in your AR thread. LOL my ass handed to me in my AR thread? I suggest you go re-read that thread and realize the only idiots are the anti-gun partisan hacks that don't know the law. One of which is from near Newton CT being an ass hat in that thread much like you are right now.
To recap:
-You claimed many Glocks have 100% limp wrist failure rate. I SAID THIS MORON ..... In fact, a shooter can intentionally cause a limp wrist malfunction 100% all the time with certain Glocks. Read that again in my original post. CERTAIN GLOCKS can be forced. Not all Glocks. Wow you are a fucking retarded god damn proven moron with massive reading comprehension failure.
-I called your bullshit. On nothing because you didn't back up a counter claim that many do not. Any 9mm, or .45 acp Glock can be forced into 100% malfunction. Which is MANY Glocks
-You tried to adjust the goal posts ("many does not equal all", "100% does not equal 100%", "some equals 100%", etc...) Many does NOT equal to all. I never stated 100% doesn't equal 100% nice lying hyperbole strawman dipshit. Get some fucking reading comprehension from your 4th grade class again moron.
-I called your bullshit *again* (do you see the theme here?) Calling bullshit as a counterclaim without stating the proof to your side of the argument means exactly nothing. Idiot
-You try to twist the argument into saying that I'm positing theory about 0% failure. (???)
No moron. I asked a direct question about there being a situation where you may be forced into limp wristing a shot. You tried to say that is FUD. I asked you nicely if you really believe there isn't a situation where a person would be forced to limp wrist a shot. Then you go into this post like a fucking retard.
-...and here we are. (cause I'm certainly seeing a theme here...) The theme that your a rabid fanboy idoit?
You're making this more complicated than it has to be, I'm just wondering if it's by intent or ignorance.
*You* said Glocks fail 100% of the time. *I* said they don't.
I said YOU CAN FORCE A MALFUNCTION IN GLOCKS 100% of the TIME. You are a fucking retard that assumed that means Glocks fail 100% of the time. Seriously, stop eating paint chips.
The one thing you and Shorty are forgetting, and I think it's very important, is a med/trauma kit.
depends how many guns and calibers you run.
eyes
ears
silcone impregnated cloth for wipe down of gun
borebutler portable bore brush for quick wipedown of barrel
patches
photocopied target centers
masking tape (for putting up centers)
pen and paper (for recording how many rounds i put through a given gun, ammo grouping performance, group size at specific range)
screwdriver or pocketknife (for tweaking adjustable sights or loose grip panels or taking apart a mag)
ziplock bag (for collecting spent 10mm brass)
small amount of gun oil or teflon lube (in case of dry slide)
mag loading tool
friend with video camera (if you want to check your trigger discipline)
small flashlight
The one thing you and Shorty are forgetting, and I think it's very important, is a med/trauma kit.
Its at the range.
And it wouldnt be IN the gun bag anyway, it would be one of those big bastards and I'd carry it separately.
Replies in bold. I was trying to be nice with you Mr Asshat, but the gloves are off now.
Soooo... other than the mandatory Glock everyone has D:, what else are people bringing to the range with them? I'm in the middle of putting a range bag together.
The one thing you and Shorty are forgetting, and I think it's very important, is a med/trauma kit.
Glock has some major shortcomings.
First off, the price. At one time Glock got their fame for being an utterly durable and reliable firearm for a fair price. That last part is no longer true. At around $550+ on average for any Glock, they aren't in the fair price range anymore. Heck, they aren't in the competitive range either with S&W, Springfields, Rugers, and other firearms of the same design in the $400 range.
Second, the grip angle that Glock guns have, isn't the most natural pointing angle for many people. Not that a person can't get used to the angle, but it is not the most ergonomic either.
Third, many glocks have 1 problem in there inherent design. Limp wristing. Due to their combination of grip angle, very heavy overbuilt slides, and extremely lightweight grip frames, they are prone to limp wrist malfunctions. In fact, a shooter can intentionally cause a limp wrist malfunction 100% all the time with certain Glocks. Any all metal gun design, and many of the other polymer guns from other manufacturers do not suffer the same design flaw of limp wrist malfunctions as Glocks do. Why is this a big deal? It isn't if all you plan to do is shoot the gun at a range. So long as you never limp wrist, the Glock will never malfunction. But in a self defense situation the likelyhood of limp wristing a shot goes up. Being forced to shoot with only 1 hand, or shooting from a prone/pinned position all increase the likelihood of the shooter having to fire "limp wristed" with their gun in a defensive situation. Imagine this situation. You are driving along the highway and switch lanes while forgetting to use your blinker. The driver behind you gets absolutely infuriated and busts a road rage vein in their forward. They are so pissed they are now literally OUT TO KILL YOU. They ram your vehicle from behind forcing your car into a spin. As your car hits the guardrail they ram into the exposed driver side of the car narrowly missed in killing you outright with their car. Seeking to finish it hands on, the road rage driver gets out of their car and comes at you. Your condition is one of someone stuck in their seatbelt, pinned into position, broken arms and collarbones, and barely able to reach your gun to defend yourself. Have fun shooting to defend your life in that situation with a Glock.
One of the main reasons people buy a gun is the contingent need that they will have to defend their life or the life of another. The vast majority of people in America will never need to use their gun for that reason. Especially those not living/working in major metropolitan cities with high crime rates. However, if you are going to buy a firearm for a low statistical rate of a contingent scenario, why limit yourself to only being able to fire the gun reliably when you are in a position to not limp wrist the shot? Personally speaking, I'd rather own a gun that fits more self defense scenarios, even the extreme ones, than not.
Oh well, that's my spiel on Glocks. I might buy one if they were cheaper for the hell of it. But why buy one when I can get something better for cheaper?
lol, your situation there is hilarious. good luck using any gun with all that bodily damage.
lol, your situation there is hilarious. good luck using any gun with all that bodily damage.
Stop the insults, guys. Let's try to act like mature adults.
It has happened before. Actually to a friend of mine who just won a lawsuit for 1.5 mill for it.
There are other reasons as well. I've known people develop carpal tunnel syndrone and had to switch guns from their Glock to something else that would still shoot reliably when they had to limp wrist to shoot. There are plenty of other situations where a hand injury may occur. Actually I was watching a cop video from some sheriff out of Virgina where a scenario happened. Some guy got violent in a car he pulled over. Cop pulls out his pepper spray to spray in the guys face when he's trying to get out of the car and at the cop. Guy slams car door on the cops hand forcing the spray to drop. Guy comes at the cop. Cop manages to push back the guy with his strong hand but pulls his Glock with his weak hand. The guy sees the gun and goes to tackle to cop. Cop fires one shot cleanly and missed. Next shot the guy was on top while the cop shoots him the gut. The guy doesn't stop. Next shot goes CLICK because of a limp wrist malfunction with the Glock. The guy gets the gun away from the cop and tries to shoot the cop. But since the gun had already malfunctioned it does shoot anymore. Instead the bad then uses the gun to beat the cop up pretty good before the cop manages to get away.
This was a story I saw awhile back so those are all the details I can remember. It was pretty bad if I am remember the story right. And it all because of a Glock 17 limp wrist malfunction because the cop had his hand slammed in the door of a car initially. You can not count on every life and death situation where you need your gun to allow you perfect control of your firearm.
A hand injury before being able to bring your fire arm to be used is a far more likely scenario than having to shoot your gun under water. Nice hyperbole there. What happens if you happen to be out skiing one vacation and break your main hand? Now you are wearing a cast. What happens while wearing that cast you are put into a situation where you need to draw your weapon to protect yourself? Do you really think anyone else going to be able to fire their weapon in their off-hand and do it one handed without limp wristing? I can think of far more plausible self defense scenario's where I am forced to limp wrist a shot than having to fire a shot while I'm submerged 100 feet under water.
It has happened before. Actually to a friend of mine who just won a lawsuit for 1.5 mill for it.
There are other reasons as well. I've known people develop carpal tunnel syndrone and had to switch guns from their Glock to something else that would still shoot reliably when they had to limp wrist to shoot. There are plenty of other situations where a hand injury may occur. Actually I was watching a cop video from some sheriff out of Virgina where a scenario happened. Some guy got violent in a car he pulled over. Cop pulls out his pepper spray to spray in the guys face when he's trying to get out of the car and at the cop. Guy slams car door on the cops hand forcing the spray to drop. Guy comes at the cop. Cop manages to push back the guy with his strong hand but pulls his Glock with his weak hand. The guy sees the gun and goes to tackle to cop. Cop fires one shot cleanly and missed. Next shot the guy was on top while the cop shoots him the gut. The guy doesn't stop. Next shot goes CLICK because of a limp wrist malfunction with the Glock. The guy gets the gun away from the cop and tries to shoot the cop. But since the gun had already malfunctioned it does shoot anymore. Instead the bad then uses the gun to beat the cop up pretty good before the cop manages to get away.
This was a story I saw awhile back so those are all the details I can remember. It was pretty bad if I am remember the story right. And it all because of a Glock 17 limp wrist malfunction because the cop had his hand slammed in the door of a car initially. You can not count on every life and death situation where you need your gun to allow you perfect control of your firearm.
A hand injury before being able to bring your fire arm to be used is a far more likely scenario than having to shoot your gun under water. Nice hyperbole there. What happens if you happen to be out skiing one vacation and break your main hand? Now you are wearing a cast. What happens while wearing that cast you are put into a situation where you need to draw your weapon to protect yourself? Do you really think anyone else going to be able to fire their weapon in their off-hand and do it one handed without limp wristing? I can think of far more plausible self defense scenario's where I am forced to limp wrist a shot than having to fire a shot while I'm submerged 100 feet under water.
Naw, it has nothing to do with that. Actually the Glock 19's have problems as well. Basically any of the 9mm and 45 acp glocks can be limp wrist malfunctioned if held just right. And any of the "compensated" versions as well. Now, if you use +p+ 9mm ammo in a 17 it's harder to induce that failure. Basically it's a combo of a very heavy slide, lower powered round, and very light grip frame. It is certainly NOT a Glock only problem. FNH has the same problem for example.
I just stated it was a con of their design. One can buy any of the Glocks that use .40 S&W and never get a limp wrist malfunction. That hotter cartridge prevents that even in the Glock design. Same with the .357 mag Glocks. However, I have a whole different attitude about "hot" rounds in a gun as well. I don't think they are justified for the recoil and other negatives about them.
I was just making a point of why I don't like Glocks and listed their cons. I wasn't expecting a couple of fanboys to jump down my throat and insult me over that.
Do you have a link to the video? If the shot was a contact shot it could have thrown it out of battery which any semi-auto is susceptible to. Certainly could have been a limp wrist but there is another possible explanation, would need to see the video though.
HP, I like you. I agree with 99.9% of your gun posts but if .40 in a full size gun is "hot" you need to man up. In a subcompact it can be a handful but in a full size or midsize gun it's not bad at all. Proper grip and stance and the gun won't move hardly at all. Most recoil issues are training issues. Can you shoot faster in a gun game with 9mm? Sure. In a real life situation will it make a difference? Nope. Your fine motor skills are completely out the window and that .1 of a second difference will never materialize.
Again, carry .40 cause I have too. Given my choice it would be .357sig. Otherwise give me 9mm for capacity or .45 for a big hole. .40 is an answer searching for a question.
I never said I think .40 is utter garbage though. Just that given the choice between a gun chambered in 9mm or .40 I'll take the 9mm every time. I have my personal reasons, some of which Yeagar in that youtube video also expresses. Unlike him, I don't think the caliber "sucks" though. I'd certainly take a .40 over nothing at all.
its been ages since my EMT class, i would probably do more harm than good trying to treat someone. let the range operators deal with the hassle of staying current on their cert.
i would also suggest a pair of thin gloves and a windbreaker. during winter with the forced air circulation indoor ranges can get nasty cold with windchill effect.
and if you get thirsty i generally advise against water bottles with caps, your hands will be covered with potentially lead and the mercury salts from the primers. you dont want to be touching the cap repeatedly with those hands until you wash them.
Yeager has a good youtube video talking about it. I think Yeager is a bit of an idiot in some regards,
I don't where he gets his idea that .40's wear out a lot faster. Maybe a little faster in proportion to their increase in energy, but not enough to be concerned about. Actually since 9mm is a faster round, a 9mm barrel will wear out before a .40 barrel. I've had a Glock 23 for a long time, it still hasn't broken yet. Does anyone have any actual statistics on how long each model of Glock lasts?
Bit of an idiot? The guy is a complete idiot. He has no idea what he's talking about.
He starts off saying he doesn't like high pressure rounds like .40 and .45 GAP. .40 and 9mm are both 35,000 psi rounds according to SAAMI specs, and the .45 GAP is 23,000 psi, lower than his beloved 9mm. Then he claims that .41 magnum pressure is higher than 10mm? 10mm is marginally higher. .41 mag is generally a more powerful round, but it is a slightly lower pressure round.
I don't think they man even knows what the word pressure means.
Sorry, but almost everything he says is nonsense, and contradictory to even his own opinion. You can't say that they are all about the same ballistically, then turn around and say .40 has a lot more recoil.
.40 S&W on average has a bit more energy than a .45 ACP, but usually no more momentum. I don't find .40 any harder to shoot.
I don't where he gets his idea that .40's wear out a lot faster. Maybe a little faster in proportion to their increase in energy, but not enough to be concerned about. Actually since 9mm is a faster round, a 9mm barrel will wear out before a .40 barrel. I've had a Glock 23 for a long time, it still hasn't broken yet. Does anyone have any actual statistics on how long each model of Glock lasts?
Didn't he lose his license to carry a gun?