YAGT: OMG I love guns

[Zargon]

No, they're unacceptable because they are an extruded hollow tube with an end welded in place.

Guess where they fail?

Mil spec is a forged aluminum solid unit, milled to proper dimensions. Its also why the threads are different between the two processes.

Another poster made the point that some commercial spec tubes are better than mil spec. It is true that there are some non-mil spec tubes that are better but I've never heard them advertised as commercial spec.

well there is no 'commecial spec' outside of the thread and size Im sure. its just not mil spec. I imagine some of the non-mispec ones are just as good/better than mil-spec, and many aren't. making it easier to stick to milspec

 

[TerryMathews]

well there is no 'commecial spec' outside of the thread and size Im sure. its just not mil spec. I imagine some of the non-mispec ones are just as good/better than mil-spec, and many aren't. making it easier to stick to milspec

Its impossible to form the threads as they are on commercial spec tubes if the tube is milled.

 

[Zargon]

Its impossible to form the threads as they are on commercial spec tubes if the tube is milled.

huh?

I meant that it seems the only thing 'commercial spec' really means is that its the correct size/thead for the non-mill spec style, and nothing else

 

[HumblePie]

huh?

I meant that it seems the only thing 'commercial spec' really means is that its the correct size/thead for the non-mill spec style, and nothing else

You are correct.

http://www.ar15fornoobs.com/mil-spec-vs-commercial-spec-buffer-tubes


Mil-spec tubes are thinner "tubes" because the tube starts out as thick as "commercial" spec tubes. A lathe does the threads and then the rest of the tube is milled thinner/smaller for a mil spec. A commercial tube just doesn't do the extra milling. There are other cheaper alternative commercial tubes that have other quality problems. However, the actual definition of the difference between a commercial and mil-spec is that a commercial tube just doesn't do that extra milling down step and will be bigger in diameter and possibly thicker for the wall of the tube as well. Strictly speaking, if maker take the same tube stock for a mil-spec for a commercial tube then really the commercial tube would be more durable, if heavier.

The thing is, most people care about that weight, so many commercial tubes aren't the same stock as mil-spec tubes. Some do a good job of using the same materials and wall thickness as a mil-spec tube. Others don't. It's those others you hear about that give commercial tubes the bad rep.

 

[IGemini]

Just ordered my m&p shield 9 from PSA. So excited! Of course god knows when I'll get it but at least it'll give me time to stock up on 9mm ammo

I've been resistant to get a S&W but I've been bouncing between the Shield and the Compact for something more portable.

PSA's deal on the Shield today is pretty good, but I found they're also offering the M&P40c w/safety for $440 including shipping . Even after fees this would mean getting one for <$500 and the deal doesn't apply to the other variants. I'm not a fan of manual safeties, but apparently the M&P's are removable and I hear S&W is willing to send free plugs on request. VERY tempted to go for this deal tonight.

 

[TerryMathews]

You are correct.

http://www.ar15fornoobs.com/mil-spec-vs-commercial-spec-buffer-tubes


Mil-spec tubes are thinner "tubes" because the tube starts out as thick as "commercial" spec tubes. A lathe does the threads and then the rest of the tube is milled thinner/smaller for a mil spec. A commercial tube just doesn't do the extra milling. There are other cheaper alternative commercial tubes that have other quality problems. However, the actual definition of the difference between a commercial and mil-spec is that a commercial tube just doesn't do that extra milling down step and will be bigger in diameter and possibly thicker for the wall of the tube as well. Strictly speaking, if maker take the same tube stock for a mil-spec for a commercial tube then really the commercial tube would be more durable, if heavier.

The thing is, most people care about that weight, so many commercial tubes aren't the same stock as mil-spec tubes. Some do a good job of using the same materials and wall thickness as a mil-spec tube. Others don't. It's those others you hear about that give commercial tubes the bad rep.

Again, this is at best correct on a limited basis. The vast majority of commercial spec tubes are manufactured from a different process. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-756190.html

 

[RampantAndroid]

Holy hell. Went to the range today.

That little sonofabitch is excellent. Fired 150 rounds flawlessly and is a god damn tack driver. That's the one I wanted the grips for...but now I dunno, cause the stock ones, which I decided to trim/smooth with a bit of sanding yesterday, are now pretty damned acceptable. A little ghetto looking; but functional. I also polished the chamber/barrel (the outside) 'cause the black coating that came on there looked weird. Made it look like an airsoft gun or something.

Anyway...yeah...I've fired 9mm's costing twice as much that did not perform as well. Turkey Fuck Yeah.

What gun is that?

 

[dabuddha]

I've been resistant to get a S&W but I've been bouncing between the Shield and the Compact for something more portable.

PSA's deal on the Shield today is pretty good, but I found they're also offering the M&P40c w/safety for $440 including shipping . Even after fees this would mean getting one for <$500 and the deal doesn't apply to the other variants. I'm not a fan of manual safeties, but apparently the M&P's are removable and I hear S&W is willing to send free plugs on request. VERY tempted to go for this deal tonight.

I wanted something small but not tiny to use as my ccw. I did shoot the .40 version of it @ the range and really liked it so I decided on this one. I kept waffling between this one and the ruger sr9c

 

[HumblePie]

Again, this is at best correct on a limited basis. The vast majority of commercial spec tubes are manufactured from a different process. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-756190.html

Keep reading later in that thread. ATI makes "mil-spec" tubes that are extruded tubes as well. They spot weld the threads on. Military specifications for the tube only have a few things they outline. Which are dimensions and a certain tension strength. Nothing more and nothing less. How that is achieved can be done with any process. Many mil-spec tubes are done through a forging process that makes a big thick heavy tube that is then milled down to size. Others, like the ATI tube, do an extrusion process.

In the case of the buffer tube, mil-spec vs commercial makes zero sense from an argument in terms of determining the quality of two different tubes. You have to actually look at the process by which the tubes were made and see if one is of the quality level you are looking for. There are commercial tubes that are from the same forged stock as good "mil-spec" tubes that just forgo the milling portion of the process to make the diameter of the tube smaller. Which leaves the tube wall actually thicker.

 

[IGemini]

I wanted something small but not tiny to use as my ccw. I did shoot the .40 version of it @ the range and really liked it so I decided on this one. I kept waffling between this one and the ruger sr9c

My brother owns an SR9c and I helped him break it in. It's a great shooter but had a couple features I couldn't stand. The loaded indicator is the most obnoxious ever made on a pistol, and the slide stop doesn't operate as a release.

 

[pontifex]

PA is just one of the slowest but reliable...

Cheaper than Dirt ships quick but is a bit pricey on most weapons plus I pay tax here in TX... Still bought my RAAC 1919 cheaper there with tax than anywhere else with no tax...?
J&G sales ship fairly quick and good prices on a lot of stuff but their shipping cost are a tad high...

Really like to try (BlueCore) it is Veteran owned and operated and have ok prices but know nothing about their shipping...?

don't mention cheaper than dirt to most people these days. people are pissed at what they did post sandy hook.

 

[pontifex]

yeah I would be more interested in reading stuff from people on there that have the brands


I have heard good things about spikes and daniel defense as well

Ive shot a fairly nice upgraded RRA one before as well

I built a spikes lower with psa parts kit and magpul furniture. then put a complete spike's upper on it. works perfectly.

 

[irishScott]

No, they're unacceptable because they are an extruded hollow tube with an end welded in place.

Guess where they fail?

Mil spec is a forged aluminum solid unit, milled to proper dimensions. Its also why the threads are different between the two processes.

Another poster made the point that some commercial spec tubes are better than mil spec. It is true that there are some non-mil spec tubes that are better but I've never heard them advertised as commercial spec.

If the welding is done right it shouldn't matter, and if you really want you can always swap out for a mil-spec tube.

 

[Zargon]

Again, this is at best correct on a limited basis. The vast majority of commercial spec tubes are manufactured from a different process. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-756190.html

the problem you have with cheap parts/shotty work, not some spec on paper dude. 'non' mil-spec can obviously still be good, as you have already admitted to

 

[TerryMathews]

the problem you have with cheap parts/shotty work, not some spec on paper dude. 'non' mil-spec can obviously still be good, as you have already admitted to

Mil spec has to be milled, or its not mil spec.

It might be mil spec diameter, but it its offered as mil spec with a welded plug you can return it as not as advertised.

Its an important distinction if you're buying parts over the internet.

 

[HumblePie]

Mil spec has to be milled, or its not mil spec.

It might be mil spec diameter, but it its offered as mil spec with a welded plug you can return it as not as advertised.

Its an important distinction if you're buying parts over the internet.

That is incorrect. Mil-spec almost never dictates materials and process, only dimensions and performance requirement numbers. Trust me on this. This is how they contract out the manufacturing when they go through the bidding process. If company X has a new way to meet the performance requirements of the military specifications with a new material or new process but at a cheaper prices... guess who gets the contract?

If you want to read the actual document regarding an M4 specifications by the military...

http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/milspec/MIL-C-71186_(AR).pdf

And nothing in that document states that the receiver has to be milled down or even made out of aluminum.

 

[phucheneh]

What gun is that?

Above poster was correct. Tristar T-100. Same as Canick 55 Shark. Turkish CZ-75 clone. Or more accurately, Tanfoglio/EAA or IWI Jericho clone.

Besides some parts interchange stuff, biggest difference is that an actual CZ is carved by spidermonkeys with dull chisels and the Caniks are not.

 

[BladeVenom]

You know what polymer guns have all been lacking? Glitter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8kMPCwfE4&t=1m28s

 

[HumblePie]

Above poster was correct. Tristar T-100. Same as Canick 55 Shark. Turkish CZ-75 clone. Or more accurately, Tanfoglio/EAA or IWI Jericho clone.

Besides some parts interchange stuff, biggest difference is that an actual CZ is carved by spidermonkeys with dull chisels and the Caniks are not.

I absolutely love my Tristar T-120 in satin finish

 

[alkemyst]

Above poster was correct. Tristar T-100. Same as Canick 55 Shark. Turkish CZ-75 clone. Or more accurately, Tanfoglio/EAA or IWI Jericho clone.

Besides some parts interchange stuff, biggest difference is that an actual CZ is carved by spidermonkeys with dull chisels and the Caniks are not.

The CZ P01 is probably one of the most reliable automatic handguns ever made.

 

[pontifex]

You know what polymer guns have all been lacking? Glitter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8kMPCwfE4&t=1m28s

you know that more and more women have been getting into guns lately right? It's all about appealing to them

 

[rudeguy]

you know that more and more women have been getting into guns lately right? It's all about appealing to them

I was at the gun shop the other day picking up some Gold Dots. I was browsing around and couldn't believe how many pink and purple guns there were. ARs, pistols, compacts...I saw a chrome and purple pocket rocket that even I wouldn't mind having.

Its a huge market now. Add in tasers and you have a huge potential for new customers. And you know they will go for the pretty shiny ones.

 

[IEC]

you know that more and more women have been getting into guns lately right? It's all about appealing to them

Women and minorities - two of the fastest growing segments of the gun market.

 

[BladeVenom]

you know that more and more women have been getting into guns lately right? It's all about appealing to them

I'm not really sure what kind of guns appeal to women, but glitter sounds more like something for a girl who isn't old enough to buy a gun yet.

 

[Bartman39]

Dunno but the my wife bought her own Glock 19 and qualified with it as well... 246 out of 250

She also has a new Ruger 380 with the laser to carry when she walks... She also bought herself a Browning Buckmark and I bought her a Core15 AR15... She really liked my TP-9 in FDE so I gave it to her and will get myself another... She's a shooter...

She also got brave and shot my AR50 and said it had a little kick...