YAGT: OMG I love guns

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phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Well, this sucks.

I pulled the slide off that Kahr earlier in preparation for its first time at the range. Was appalled at what I found.

For comparison, my previous Kahr (CM9) got the same treatment. IMO it's silliness to not clean a brand new gun, as backwards as that may sound to some. You've got the residue from the factory test fire, often dried packing oil, and, most importantly, commonly some small amount of machining debris. Anyhow...the CM9 had one stray sliver of metal stuck to the feed ramp. And a little dried oil. That's it.

This CW45 is part of the same line of pistol at a similar price point...not like I'm comparing their high end (P and PM designations, mostly) to a cheapie. This one looks like trash. Like I took it to work, dropped it in a bin of brake rotor shavings, then half-assedly rinsed it with watery oil. Then sat there and racked the slide about a thousand times, patiently waiting for the pistol to fuck itself with all the loose debris.

Guns are probably not a good item to make people have to angrily return. This is a major shop with the best range in the state, too. And the people are nice and prices decent; that's not the norm around here.

I will post pics when I get a chance.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
http://www.mediafire.com/?zs9c777r6h7ct

So yeah. That shit is fucked up. I briefly handled it. Dry-fired once. The outside of the frame and slide look fine. Feed ramp looked fine; just a light layer of grime that I assumed to be from the factory test firing it, or dried oil, like stated above. I knew what I wanted, price was good, bought it.

The first thing I did after popping the slide off was notice how orange the 'oil' on the guide rod was. Wrote it off as strange but not alarming and wiped it off (see picture of paper towel). Then I saw how it looked like a fuckin' weasel had been chewing on it and immediately started 'oh hell the fuck no' documentation.

These guns come tight, and the frames wear. But I put hundreds of rounds through my previous one and never saw any real amount of metal come out of it. I also don't recall being able to see fucking light through the side of the chamber with it in battery. I cannot even fathom what happened to this gun before someone cleaned the outside and put it back on the shelf.
 

dabuddha

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
19,579
17
81
No but can you please post some gun porn of the shield?

Also...do you mind saying what you paid? I keep hearing about them but I can't find one to fondle!

Sure NP. Ive only got one crappy cell phone pic on me but I'll post more later when I go through my breakdown/clean. I ended up paying $359 + ~$12 shipping + $25 ffl for a total of $396. This was from lanbosarmory.com.

 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
My DD v7 ended costing $2200 out the door, which is almost as much as my SCAR 16s. Do NOT ever order directly from DD is what I learned. I customized a v7 from their website (SSA trigger and some minor mods). They charged me an extra couple of hundred dollars for a Federal excise tax for assembling it. Didn't even know that existed.

Yeah their build a rifle isn't going to get you a good deal as you are going to pay their full retail and not street price. I still haven't figured out why they added the excise tax on top of the price. It technically included in all rifles but it's hidden in the total price. Why they add it on top of the custom builds is beyond me. SSA trigger rocks though and well worth the money.


Fair price but not a deal by any means. Some quick googling:

V5LW for $1403+shipping
V5 for $1359 and V5LW for $1449+shipping
Check here too. They have some kind of network with local dealers. Had some good prices in my local area.

Now for my favorite, Clyde's. Great shop to deal with and good to amazing prices. They have the V5LW for $1429. They also have what I would buy, the V7LW for $1329 which is an awesome price. Give the V7 a serious look. The tube guard is the way to go IMHO. I'm in the process of moving everything from my DD to a Troy rifle with the tube guard. It's just easier to use with the tube. You can get a better grasp with the narrower tube over the big quad rail. Most guys make them even thicker with rail covers. You can still mount what you need to on the tube rail with smaller rail pieces that are included with the rifle. Get your hands on both before buying if you can to see what fits you better.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
Now for my favorite, Clyde's. Great shop to deal with and good to amazing prices. They have the V5LW for $1429. They also have what I would buy, the V7LW for $1329 which is an awesome price. Give the V7 a serious look. The tube guard is the way to go IMHO. I'm in the process of moving everything from my DD to a Troy rifle with the tube guard. It's just easier to use with the tube. You can get a better grasp with the narrower tube over the big quad rail. Most guys make them even thicker with rail covers. You can still mount what you need to on the tube rail with smaller rail pieces that are included with the rifle. Get your hands on both before buying if you can to see what fits you better.


I swear by the Troy VTAC alpha and regular Alpha rails. Have them on all three of my uppers. No need to change the barrel nut and they look nice IMO. Plus like you said you can add the rails to the spots you need which for me is for a bipod or AFG2 depending which upper it is. But like you said some like the thicker size of four full rails.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Any comments on my situation above? I'm headed out the door in about an hour and will be stopping by there some time today. I've just never had any issues with gun stores other than 'salesman is a dick' or something. I'm going to try and be nice and basically say 'look, there's no way [the guy who sold it to me] could have known, we didn't take the pistol apart,' ect. But it was supposed to be new, I paid a new price, and frankly I wouldn't even go near a used gun that looked like this.

But I'm already thinking 'worst case.' Which is basically- if you deny responsibility, then you're saying that Kahr sent you a pistol in this condition. a) You should probably take that up with Kahr b) If I have to take it up with them, it's going to be me saying 'look at how one of your authorized retailers is slurring your name.'
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Any comments on my situation above? I'm headed out the door in about an hour and will be stopping by there some time today. I've just never had any issues with gun stores other than 'salesman is a dick' or something. I'm going to try and be nice and basically say 'look, there's no way [the guy who sold it to me] could have known, we didn't take the pistol apart,' ect. But it was supposed to be new, I paid a new price, and frankly I wouldn't even go near a used gun that looked like this.

But I'm already thinking 'worst case.' Which is basically- if you deny responsibility, then you're saying that Kahr sent you a pistol in this condition. a) You should probably take that up with Kahr b) If I have to take it up with them, it's going to be me saying 'look at how one of your authorized retailers is slurring your name.'

I was ready to flame on you for complaining about oil since some guns come with some nasty factory lube, but that thing just doesn't look right.

I would take it in and !calmly! ask what happened. I have purchased Kahrs brand new and never had anything like that. I would almost guess that it was used, put away fucked up, then sold as new. But that is just a guess. Either way...handle it calmly!
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Any comments on my situation above? I'm headed out the door in about an hour and will be stopping by there some time today. I've just never had any issues with gun stores other than 'salesman is a dick' or something. I'm going to try and be nice and basically say 'look, there's no way [the guy who sold it to me] could have known, we didn't take the pistol apart,' ect. But it was supposed to be new, I paid a new price, and frankly I wouldn't even go near a used gun that looked like this.

But I'm already thinking 'worst case.' Which is basically- if you deny responsibility, then you're saying that Kahr sent you a pistol in this condition. a) You should probably take that up with Kahr b) If I have to take it up with them, it's going to be me saying 'look at how one of your authorized retailers is slurring your name.'

Sounds like a shitty situation. I'd just return it and inspect the exchanged one a bit more thoroughly before taking it home.

Nice on buying the chrome version of the t-100 and swapping out the parts to go for a two-tone on both.

I have the t-120 and am thinking of getting the t-100 in blued. Not sure I want to do the part swap for two-tone though.
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
Yeah their build a rifle isn't going to get you a good deal as you are going to pay their full retail and not street price. I still haven't figured out why they added the excise tax on top of the price. It technically included in all rifles but it's hidden in the total price. Why they add it on top of the custom builds is beyond me. SSA trigger rocks though and well worth the money.

I wish I knew beforehand that they would charge a federal build tax on top of everything else. It was ridiculously expensive and I will never custom a rifle from them again. I had to even convince my FFL not to add sales tax on top of that lame $200 build tax.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
I wish I knew beforehand that they would charge a federal build tax on top of everything else. It was ridiculously expensive and I will never custom a rifle from them again. I had to even convince my FFL not to add sales tax on top of that lame $200 build tax.

It has to do with the parts. Technically if you order a full rifle's parts from a vendor, even unassembled, you should be charged the tax.

Dont be mad at the vendor for following the law. Be mad at the lawmakers.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...a4ed60d44&node=27:2.0.1.2.6.5.169.1&rgn=div8
 
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boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
I wish I knew beforehand that they would charge a federal build tax on top of everything else. It was ridiculously expensive and I will never custom a rifle from them again. I had to even convince my FFL not to add sales tax on top of that lame $200 build tax.

You would have had to have known before you purchased, that's 10% of the cost.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
My DD v7 ended costing $2200 out the door, which is almost as much as my SCAR 16s. Do NOT ever order directly from DD is what I learned. I customized a v7 from their website (SSA trigger and some minor mods). They charged me an extra couple of hundred dollars for a Federal excise tax for assembling it. Didn't even know that existed.

Ouch. I'm thinking of buying and installing the SSA myself. For 2200$ I want gas piston.

If you don't mind me asking, other than SSA what's your config?

I have ctr stock, moe+ grip, troy folding sites, and raptor ch. So far. Looking at larue spr mount and Bushnell 2.5-16 6500 scope, SSA trigger next...
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Finally had to admit that I will never have time to put my sights on. Dropped the Sig off at the shop to have them do it.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,071
744
126
Finally had to admit that I will never have time to put my sights on. Dropped the Sig off at the shop to have them do it.
I've had night sights for my pistol sitting in my night stand for 6 months. I should probably do the same.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
http://www.mediafire.com/?zs9c777r6h7ct

So yeah. That shit is fucked up. I briefly handled it. Dry-fired once. The outside of the frame and slide look fine. Feed ramp looked fine; just a light layer of grime that I assumed to be from the factory test firing it, or dried oil, like stated above. I knew what I wanted, price was good, bought it.

The first thing I did after popping the slide off was notice how orange the 'oil' on the guide rod was. Wrote it off as strange but not alarming and wiped it off (see picture of paper towel). Then I saw how it looked like a fuckin' weasel had been chewing on it and immediately started 'oh hell the fuck no' documentation.

These guns come tight, and the frames wear. But I put hundreds of rounds through my previous one and never saw any real amount of metal come out of it. I also don't recall being able to see fucking light through the side of the chamber with it in battery. I cannot even fathom what happened to this gun before someone cleaned the outside and put it back on the shelf.

Wow, that is inexcusable, even for a used gun (which this isn't). Honestly I'd take it back to the shop and ask if they were sure they sold it to you new. Barring that, have them send it back to Kahr for you.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
I've had night sights for my pistol sitting in my night stand for 6 months. I should probably do the same.

Yea...I want it carry worthy and I will keep putting it off.

I did check out a Rock Island 1911 while I was there. It wasn't too bad but the only one they had was a 9/weird 22 variant combo. Really wish they had a 45.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
Ouch. I'm thinking of buying and installing the SSA myself. For 2200$ I want gas piston.

If you don't mind me asking, other than SSA what's your config?

I have ctr stock, moe+ grip, troy folding sites, and raptor ch. So far. Looking at larue spr mount and Bushnell 2.5-16 6500 scope, SSA trigger next...

No you don't. Added weight to the worst part of the gun, the end. Then you have proprietary parts that range from difficult to impossible to get. It's seems to be a trend to require you to send your piston rifle back to get any replacement parts for the system. (Ruger and Sig off the top of my head) If you want piston, by a piston gun. SCAR would be a damned good choice.

If you are going with a higher power scope you may want to consider a different trigger. SSA is designed as a "battle" trigger and not a precision trigger used for accuracy. Look into the National Match series.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
No you don't. Added weight to the worst part of the gun, the end. Then you have proprietary parts that range from difficult to impossible to get. It's seems to be a trend to require you to send your piston rifle back to get any replacement parts for the system. (Ruger and Sig off the top of my head) If you want piston, by a piston gun. SCAR would be a damned good choice.

If you are going with a higher power scope you may want to consider a different trigger. SSA is designed as a "battle" trigger and not a precision trigger used for accuracy. Look into the National Match series.

Correct, I would consider the scar16 for 2200$ although I've seen $2500 recently which I'm not crazy about. I meant technologically speaking, i won't stomach paying that much for DI unless it came with some other critical feature. Thanks for the heads up on the customizable Giselle trigger.

I hope Giselle is able to make a feasible Tavor trigger group. I know iwi contacted him a few months back...
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Correct, I would consider the scar16 for 2200$ although I've seen $2500 recently which I'm not crazy about. I meant technologically speaking, i won't stomach paying that much for DI unless it came with some other critical feature. Thanks for the heads up on the customizable Giselle trigger.

I hope Giselle is able to make a feasible Tavor trigger group. I know iwi contacted him a few months back...

I've heard awesome things about the Barrett Rec7, and spare parts kits can be purchased online (see 2nd link).

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=377144730
http://www.barrettrifles.com/p-2643-rec7-556-spare-parts-kit.aspx
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
I've heard a couple times that night sights are worthless because you shouldn't be aiming at something you can't see, and if you can see it, then you don't need night sights. Thoughts?

Meh, I think it's mostly bullshit, at least when put against night sights in general. If I'm walking alone at night and I have to aim at a silhouette against a street light, I'm going to want night sights for alignment.

Now when it comes to home defense it would seem to have more credibility, but there are situations there where they could be advantageous.


Bottom line I don't see it as an issue. If you're so trigger happy or poorly trained that you won't identify your target before firing, you shouldn't own a gun.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Nice on buying the chrome version of the t-100 and swapping out the parts to go for a two-tone on both.

I have the t-120 and am thinking of getting the t-100 in blued. Not sure I want to do the part swap for two-tone though.

AFAIK the T-100 is only available in black. The guns without the Tristar branding (just 'Canik 55') have the other finishes available. That's paint on the frame- I was explaining somewhere above that I had made an attempt to polish the frame, but found the factory stuff just too hard to work with. It was difficult getting the black off...pretty damn solvent resistant (tried everything but aircraft stripper...that stuff is nasty) and most any form of abrasion will scratch the aluminum. 220grit sandpaper was as brave as I got, and that will still be scratchy enough to make polishing quite the lengthy process. Blasting with some kind of fairly aggressive media is probably the only good option. The irony is that the whole reason I decided to try polishing was because the factory finish already had chips and I deemed it 'not durable.'

But even worse, once you get the black coating off, there is some kind of chemical process (or so I assume) done to the aluminum that makes it yellow and dull, and I'm suspecting that MUST be abraded away by hand. Like, you've gotta really remove metal. So I gave up, smoothed everything out, and used the closest thing to a generic 'satin nickel' that I could find at the auto parts store. It's VHT caliper paint. Didn't come out flawless, but pretty acceptable looking. Baked the pistol frame in the kitchen oven to cure it, heh. Ghetto Duracoat.

After all my fucking with it, I shot that gun again today, and it remains absolutely flawless. And so goddamn accurate. I do not have very steady hands, and today was not one of my better days in that respect...could still shoot an easy 6" group at 20 yards. Hell, I even managed to hit a bullseye twice in a row...any inaccuracy with that gun is DEFINITELY in the shooter and not the weapon.


More importantly, the Kahr thing...very, very good experience with the gun shop. They saw what I saw, basically echoed the 'what in the shit is this shit,' and immediately said they would exchange it. They blamed the supplier (apparently a middleman between them and the actual manufacturers)...I can't remember the name, but I heard an 'I bet we got that from such-and-such' and then later a confirmation of the guilty party. I'm guessing they've had issues with someone before; nothing like this, though. I may have been responsible for their first ever accepted firearm return, heh.

If anyone needs a gun shop/range rec in Tennessee, Nashville Armory get's an A+ from me. Gun prices are about as good as you can expect, range prices are very reasonable. And they sell NEW ammo cheaper most ranges sell shitty reloads. And said range is pretty goddamned nice.

They didn't have another CW45, though. Offered to order one, but I took a CW9 instead. I carried it and the T-100 over to the range along with 200 rounds. I verified the Kahr was fairly clean (should still have cleaned it first, but meh). Also of note, I remembered as I was leaving...I never oiled the Canik after I put it back together. Still. Damned. Flawless.

The CW9 shoots good for what it is (...small, long trigger)*. But it makes the Canik feel like a .22 target pistol. But I was having issues when I tried to dump full mags (...to test...surely not just for fun...:sneaky. Halfway through, I'd get a failure to recock the striker. Seems most attributable to limpwristing...but I really don't think I was limpwristing. I intentionally locked in my arms/wrist/grip WAY too tight just to test, and I still got the misfeed. Wondering if it was the ammo. We'll see if it fixes itself after I clean it and get a few more rounds through it. Never had this issue with my CM9.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
I've heard a couple times that night sights are worthless because you shouldn't be aiming at something you can't see, and if you can see it, then you don't need night sights. Thoughts?

A good weapon light will illuminate your target like daylight, and you still won't be able to see your sights in a truly dark room.

Eff lights, though. Not a fan of broadcasting my position if there is a 'is someone in my house?' kinda scenario. Night sights still have a purpose there, though. My relevant example would be hearing someone prowling around my back yard, and exiting through an unlit door to investigate. Hard to see the gun in front of my face, but I can see someone on my property without them seeing me.
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
If you don't mind me asking, other than SSA what's your config?
It hurts to think about it, but I copied this from my order:

SEMI-AUTO DDM4 COMPLETE LOWER RECEIVER GROUP
05-013-22000-105-build $465.00
Ordered: 1
$465.00
GEISSLE SSA TRIGGER
28-102-09414-build $180.00
Ordered: 1
$180.00
A4 UPPER RECEIVER, ASSEMBLY
04-015-81604-103-build $129.00
Ordered: 1
$129.00
MID-LENGTH GAS TUBE ASSEMBLY
04-013-09401-build $12.00
Ordered: 1
$12.00
16" 5.56MM MID-LENGTH CHF BARREL - W/LPGB
07-077-06158-build $339.00
Ordered: 1
$339.00
DANIEL DEFENSE SUPERIOR SUPPRESSION DEVICE, EXTENDED ASSY, 1/2-28 (.223 /5.56MM)
06-048-04165-105-build $59.00
Ordered: 1
$59.00
COMPLETE BOLT CARRIER GROUP, CHROME PLATED(5.56MM)
04-013-09300-043-build $199.00
Ordered: 1
$199.00
MODULAR FLOAT RAIL 12.0
01-107-05018-build $255.00
Ordered: 1
$255.00
A1.5 FIXED REAR SIGHT
19-064-11002-build $71.00
Ordered: 1
$71.00
RAIL MOUNTED FIXED FRONT SIGHT
19-017-04013-build $61.00
Ordered: 1
$61.00
CHARGING HANDLE ASSEMBLY
04-013-09070-build $30.00
Ordered: 1
$30.00
COMPLETE RIFLE BUILD FED TAX
fed_tax $1.00
Ordered: 198
$198.00
BULLET BUTTON - CA COMPLIANCE
05-013-08121 $20.00
Ordered: 1
$20.00
 
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