YAGT: OMG I love guns

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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Ah, ok, makes me feel a bit better. Wish I could have talked myself into buying more. imo, ammo costs will keep getting higher and higher until it is cost prohibitive to shoot.

What was the brand of the 9mm that you got from WM for less than $26 per 100 rounds? Was it brass and not steel because a lot of ranges will not let you shoot steel case ammo.


Some of the heavy shooters use reloaded ammo but I don't have the time and the tools to do so.
 

Phanuel

Platinum Member
Apr 25, 2008
2,304
2
0
It's normal for the shield. It's one of the more common aesthetic complaints about it actually, but it's to spec.

And the "bottom part" is technically the "frame".

100% normal. My fullsize 9mm M&P looks exactly the same. You can see the top of the round in the magazine through the gap.

It's a polymer gun with two railed blocks that the slide attaches to. It's not a full internal railed gun you're going to have gaps. My Glock does as well.


Grr, still want to get a 1911. Anyone know of a SSE FFL in the San Jose, CA area?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Ah. I had seen a few variations of the Canik Sharks, but thought the Tristar guns were like Model T's- 'any color you want as long as it's black.'

There's definitely no blued versions, though. As you said, the black is Duracoat or something similar. Looking at that link, I see they call the frame 'steel alloy,' but it is WAY lighter than a 'normal' steel-framed CZ, or Jericho especially (be sure to finger-fuck one if you see it in a gun store...it just always baffles me how they made it so heavy). And a magnet doesn't stick to it. And it's pretty soft. Strongly suspect 'aluminum alloy.' Bluing requires steel.

Chipping was where the frame meets the slide, most notably. I figured with use it would get some pronounced flaking around that edge. I think they just didn't coat the edges thoroughly enough, giving the finish a place to lift.

Again, to anyone who likes a good 9mm pistol: You cannot go wrong with these Tristar/Canik guns. You will not find a gun that shoots as well for $400 or less brand new. If you don't want to trust your life to a relatively unknown Turkish gun, I totally understand that. But for a shooter- they are worth a try for sure. I do have to point out one fault: some of you guys that collect lots of H&K's, Sigs, and other high dollar guns...it might make you feel kinda silly to realize how good a gun costing like 25-50% as much as some of your others can be. ;P

I know, which is why I bought mine a long time ago and have been trying to tell people




That's my Tristar T-120 for one turkish gun. This is my girsan 1911 for my other one.



Two turkish guns I'm really am impressed with and the price just blows everything else out of the water for the quality level.
 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,017
3
81
Some of the heavy shooters use reloaded ammo but I don't have the time and the tools to do so.

I definitely fall into that category I guess. Been reloading 9mm for a year and a half at this point and I've more than paid for the equipment.. If you're looking for a productive and enjoyable hobby that saves you money, reloading is a great way to go.

9mm for 11 cents/round. :thumbsup:
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
How much does the gear cost? Like, say I just want to reload 9mm target ammo?

Even if you figure in a few duds, that comes out to like twelve bucks for a hundred rounds. Versus the best I know of locally; new FMJ's (the places that sell reloads are actually higher) for about $15 a box. With tax, a little over 30 for 100. I've managed to get one 100rnd box for 26 at academy, and last time I saw them, 250's at Walmart were like 65 at the least. Wanna say it was more like 75. 'Real' gun shops will only sell the 50 sound boxes.

Is there not a reliable way to get ammo online? I'd drop some money, but I'd have to get it down to, say $20 or less per 100 to actually buy some bulk (like 1000 rounds).
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Oh, BTW, I'm now been through every process I can come up to polish this Canik. My ghetto paint came off fairly easily, as does the black that was on it. But bottom layer is like a tan/yellow that is just a motherfucker. But it's coming. Resorted to high-speed sanding wheels. It's going to look like a freakin' chrome bumper when I'm done. Too lazy to post pics right now. I like my 'custom-made' grips, but with this much effort, it's gonna have to sport some of the high-dollar VZ's or some wood.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
How much does the gear cost? Like, say I just want to reload 9mm target ammo?

Even if you figure in a few duds, that comes out to like twelve bucks for a hundred rounds. Versus the best I know of locally; new FMJ's (the places that sell reloads are actually higher) for about $15 a box. With tax, a little over 30 for 100. I've managed to get one 100rnd box for 26 at academy, and last time I saw them, 250's at Walmart were like 65 at the least. Wanna say it was more like 75. 'Real' gun shops will only sell the 50 sound boxes.

Is there not a reliable way to get ammo online? I'd drop some money, but I'd have to get it down to, say $20 or less per 100 to actually buy some bulk (like 1000 rounds).

It's a bit of a loaded question. Any were from a couple hundred to north of a grand depending on how easy and how fast you want it to be. There should be no duds. A big part of reloading is attention to detail. How many dud factory loads do you get? Over the thousands I've shot I've had one with a bad primer. Accidentally double charge a round and you'll likely destroy the gun and post danger to yourself. It's easy to do, do a search and you'll see plenty of cases.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
How much does the gear cost? Like, say I just want to reload 9mm target ammo?

Starts at about $30 bucks for a Lee Loader set plus primer, powder, bullets, etc.

The catch is (and this is basically a constant in the reloading world), the more money you spend on equipment, the faster you can produce ammo.

If you are persistent with that Lee Loader you might be able to crank out 20-30 rounds an hour.
Going to a single stage press (startup cost $150-200) will get you up to 50-100 rounds per hour.
A turret press (startup cost ~$300) will bump you to 100-200 rounds per hour.
And the big daddy of the reloading world is the progressive press (starting at ~$500 and going to over $1k) with which you can do around 300-500 rounds per hour.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
How many dud factory loads do you get? Over the thousands I've shot I've had one with a bad primer. Accidentally double charge a round and you'll likely destroy the gun and post danger to yourself. It's easy to do, do a search and you'll see plenty of cases.

Factory duds...between my dad and i in the last year or so we have probably had 10-15 including self defense ammo (but mostly generic bulk pack stuff). Most were bad primers since they were click with no bangs. Get home and i pull the bullets and theres powder in them. Now i did have one herters which was just a weird one. Firing in my sks and click but no bang. Waited a minute and then ejected the round. Well the case ejected but left the bullet in the chamber and powder spilled everywhere. Bullet came out easy enough (not a squib) but was definitely a WTF moment.

Reloading wise ive hand maybe 5 duds. 4 of those were 100% my fault as they were ones i tried to force the primer into a still somewhat crimped primer pocket and deformed the primer a bit. The other was just a plain dead primer




As for cost.....just all depends what route you go. Merad has a good basic pricing. I use a lee Turret press and a Lee Pro 1000 progressive. I deprime, size, prime, and bell (for pistol) on the pro 1000 then load on the Turret. Just my style of reloading. You just have to find what works for you. And how much time you want to spend. i keep ~1k of each caliber loaded up so i just replenish it at a slower pace and when i want. Its relaxing and a hobby for me so no need ot rush through it.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Well the Sig did well but I have to work on my form. My wrists are not strong due to carpal. Not bad but not what I am used to.

 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,017
3
81
How much does the gear cost? Like, say I just want to reload 9mm target ammo?

Even if you figure in a few duds, that comes out to like twelve bucks for a hundred rounds. Versus the best I know of locally; new FMJ's (the places that sell reloads are actually higher) for about $15 a box. With tax, a little over 30 for 100. I've managed to get one 100rnd box for 26 at academy, and last time I saw them, 250's at Walmart were like 65 at the least. Wanna say it was more like 75. 'Real' gun shops will only sell the 50 sound boxes.

Is there not a reliable way to get ammo online? I'd drop some money, but I'd have to get it down to, say $20 or less per 100 to actually buy some bulk (like 1000 rounds).


I've got about $250 into equipment, which sounds like a lot but if you shoot a lot it pays off pretty quickly. I think it took me about 2000 rounds to pay off my initial investment, and that only took me like 5 months of shooting. Volume is definitely where you'll save
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
I've got about $250 into equipment, which sounds like a lot but if you shoot a lot it pays off pretty quickly. I think it took me about 2000 rounds to pay off my initial investment, and that only took me like 5 months of shooting. Volume is definitely where you'll save

If youd o rifle (other than 223) it really adds up fast in savings. My 308 match grade ammo i can make for ~43 cents a round. Compare that to most match (federal gold medal match for instance) being ~1.25 a round (quick google search) and you can really save up. Even if match ammo is 1 dollar a round thats 57 cents a shot you are saving. Ive put ~500 rounds through the 308 so far so i have saved 285 bucks. Which has easily paid for the press, dies, powder thrower, and other things.

Its the only way i could shoot my 45/70 too, Screw 1.50 per a round for basic ammo. I can reload for 44 cents a round on those. So the savings really add up fast with rifle ammo
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Anyone have experience with red dots on defensive handguns? I have a FNX-45 tactical and am looking at the trijicon rmr. I like a tiny dot for range use on my range handgun, but I'm wondering if a 6.5 moa dot is more appropriate in terms of possibly being slightly faster to pickup even if the handgun isn't held perfectly. Ive narrowed it down to the 3.25 moa or 6.5 moa...
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
Anyone have experience with red dots on defensive handguns? I have a FNX-45 tactical and am looking at the trijicon rmr. I like a tiny dot for range use on my range handgun, but I'm wondering if a 6.5 moa dot is more appropriate in terms of possibly being slightly faster to pickup even if the handgun isn't held perfectly. Ive narrowed it down to the 3.25 moa or 6.5 moa...

Fantastic idea if your willing to make in the investment. I haven't gotten to spend much time with one but after extensive use of my Aimpoint I'd do it in a heart beat if I used a handgun as my primary home defense weapon. (mine is the rifle) I'd do the 6.5MOA for a HD situation. The big dot isn't going to compromise accuracy as it's going to be up close use.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
When you say 'defensive,' surely you don't mean a carry gun, right?

Issues of bulk aside, I would rate the best red dot in the world as pretty much worthless. If you draw a handgun in self-defense, you're probably not going to be doing a lot of precise aiming. Point and shoot.

I'm sure some will say that's bullshit, or just plain irresponsible. Note that I'm not saying 'spray and pray.' I'm saying snap into your learned, practiced posture, and muscle memory should have you pretty on-target at a typical self-defense distance. The more time you have to aim, the more questionable your use of force is going to become. It's not the movies; you're not going to scream 'freeze, suckah!' You're going to shoot them as quickly as you can because you're in fear for your life.

That said, the only handgun I've fired with a red dot was a 10mm 1911, and it was useless. It was bigger than the sights that you're looking at, and the dot was hard to locate when you first brought the weapon up. The combo of a small sight and large distance between it and your eyes means it takes very little movement before it disappears off the edge of the glass. The time to acquire the dot versus the time it takes to acquire a good set of sights is going to be trivial, I think.

And of course, follow-up shots with a 10mm were nonexistant. Seems like anything more than a heavy 9mm (...like a polymer .45) and that dot is gonna say 'see ya!' after every shot. For me, it was really disorienting to try and reacquire it. The difference was that with normal sights, I never truly lose the front post. I know what direction I need to go to bring it back into my sight picture. Relying only on a red dot, I would nudge muzzle in the wrong damn direction trying to find the thing again.

edit: just checked, that was a Leupold Deltapoint that I tried.
 
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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
When you say 'defensive,' surely you don't mean a carry gun, right?

Issues of bulk aside, I would rate the best red dot in the world as pretty much worthless. If you draw a handgun in self-defense, you're probably not going to be doing a lot of precise aiming. Point and shoot.

I'm sure some will say that's bullshit, or just plain irresponsible. Note that I'm not saying 'spray and pray.' I'm saying snap into your learned, practiced posture, and muscle memory should have you pretty on-target at a typical self-defense distance. The more time you have to aim, the more questionable your use of force is going to become. It's not the movies; you're not going to scream 'freeze, suckah!' You're going to shoot them as quickly as you can because you're in fear for your life.

That said, the only handgun I've fired with a red dot was a 10mm 1911, and it was useless. It was bigger than the sights that you're looking at, and the dot was hard to locate when you first brought the weapon up. The combo of a small sight and large distance between it and your eyes means it takes very little movement before it disappears off the edge of the glass. The time to acquire the dot versus the time it takes to acquire a good set of sights is going to be trivial, I think.

And of course, follow-up shots with a 10mm were nonexistant. Seems like anything more than a heavy 9mm (...like a polymer .45) and that dot is gonna say 'see ya!' after every shot. For me, it was really disorienting to try and reacquire it. The difference was that with normal sights, I never truly lose the front post. I know what direction I need to go to bring it back into my sight picture. Relying only on a red dot, I would nudge muzzle in the wrong damn direction trying to find the thing again.

edit: just checked, that was a Leupold Deltapoint that I tried.

Home defense. Because it would be cowitnessed with the irons, the dot is there as an auxiliary sighting aid in the event it may be helpful beyond std pointing technique. Unfortunately, I have to buy it to test this out for myself lol.

I guess another question is if anybody knows if a handgun light like tlr1 blinds out the red dot rendering it stupid useless... I read the rmr without battery is somewhat useless under flashlight illuminated, so I'm strictly looking at the battery adjustable models
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
As phucheneh said, the only time I would find a red dot or laser sight really useful for home defense is in night time situation where it actually does help acquire a target faster in very low to no light situations. Anything else and you are better off with normal sites when in a true self defense situation and at self defense distances of 20 feet or less.
 

BlitzPuppet

Platinum Member
Feb 4, 2012
2,460
7
81
As phucheneh said, the only time I would find a red dot or laser sight really useful for home defense is in night time situation where it actually does help acquire a target faster in very low to no light situations. Anything else and you are better off with normal sites when in a true self defense situation and at self defense distances of 20 feet or less.

"but HumblePie/phucheneh....you mean my my clone rifle based off of Battlefield complete with Lasers, Flashlight, and Red dot is considered overkill for a home defense situation?"

I'm a member of the 'shotgun for home defense' crowd. Just point and click
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,179
897
126
As phucheneh said, the only time I would find a red dot or laser sight really useful for home defense is in night time situation where it actually does help acquire a target faster in very low to no light situations. Anything else and you are better off with normal sites when in a true self defense situation and at self defense distances of 20 feet or less.

If it's dark enough in the house to benefit from a red dot or laser, then it's dark enough that his TLR-1 is probably the better option. As someone above said, I doubt a red dot is going to be all that useful in this type of situation as we're not talking standing on a line at the range and taking your time to line up a shot.

We're talking the sound of a smashed window at 3am, bloodshot eyes, tremendous grogginess, heart rate elevated to where it feels like it's jumping out of your body - grabbing the gun and pointing it in the right direction at that point is a challenge, let along trying to acquire a target in pitch black through an aiming reticle.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Thanks for the thoughts. At this point seems like the rmr sounds like a fun range item but its practicality for home is pretty minimal to marginal at best.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
I've got about $250 into equipment, which sounds like a lot but if you shoot a lot it pays off pretty quickly. I think it took me about 2000 rounds to pay off my initial investment, and that only took me like 5 months of shooting. Volume is definitely where you'll save

400 rds per month? I surely do not shoot as much. Plus I still live in a small apartment so no space. Will have to stay with my $0.30/rd average @ Academy (Winchester FMJ 9mm).
 
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