YAGT: OMG I love guns

[phucheneh]

Can anyone tell me why this P230 has an Interarms stamp?

http://www.armslist.com/posts/30622...e--sig-sauer-p230-sl-with-crimson-trace-grips

Seems weird. I thought Sig was their own importer/distributor? Would this indicate that this gun was made before Sig has a presence in North America?

 

[IGemini]

Seems weird. I thought Sig was their own importer/distributor? Would this indicate that this gun was made before Sig has a presence in North America?

P230s were first made in 1977. SIG didn't have any American facilities until almost a decade later, so Interarms did the import work.

 

[slugg]

So here's a dumb series of questions for everyone. Again, realize that I'm a complete noob/idiot. Anyway... What's the big deal about AR-15s? Why does everyone talk about building them, as opposed to buying them? What's the lasting appeal of these guns? I'm not questioning/challenging it - I'm just trying to understand. Oh and here's the biggest question: not counting 22lr (simply because I've never, ever, ever even seen the ammo in any store, even price-gouging shooting ranges), what's the cheapest *realistic* AR-15 configuration to operate?

I guess I didn't mention that I got a hell of a deal on a brand new Mossberg 500. I paid less than what a Maverick 88 sells for. So now that puts me at owning a handgun and a shotgun. A rifle is missing...

 

[irishScott]

So here's a dumb series of questions for everyone. Again, realize that I'm a complete noob/idiot. Anyway... What's the big deal about AR-15s? Why does everyone talk about building them, as opposed to buying them? What's the lasting appeal of these guns? I'm not questioning/challenging it - I'm just trying to understand. Oh and here's the biggest question: not counting 22lr (simply because I've never, ever, ever even seen the ammo in any store, even price-gouging shooting ranges), what's the cheapest *realistic* AR-15 configuration to operate?

I guess I didn't mention that I got a hell of a deal on a brand new Mossberg 500. I paid less than what a Maverick 88 sells for. So now that puts me at owning a handgun and a shotgun. A rifle is missing...

Well the AR-15 platform is one of the most modular and customizable rifle platforms in existence, it's also readily build-able with the the presence of 80% lowers. Add to that its pedigree of being the US military's platform of choice since Vietnam, and it's got quite a following.

One of the cheapest quality AR-15 on the market would be a Smith & Wesson M&P sport. It's an AR-15 that takes out a lot of the mil-spec requirements to reduce cost, but most users don't need the mil-spec features they exclude anyway. For range use and anything other than rolling in the mud it's more than adequate.

Congrats on the 500!

 

[velillen]

So here's a dumb series of questions for everyone. Again, realize that I'm a complete noob/idiot. Anyway... What's the big deal about AR-15s? Why does everyone talk about building them, as opposed to buying them? What's the lasting appeal of these guns? I'm not questioning/challenging it - I'm just trying to understand. Oh and here's the biggest question: not counting 22lr (simply because I've never, ever, ever even seen the ammo in any store, even price-gouging shooting ranges), what's the cheapest *realistic* AR-15 configuration to operate?

I guess I didn't mention that I got a hell of a deal on a brand new Mossberg 500. I paid less than what a Maverick 88 sells for. So now that puts me at owning a handgun and a shotgun. A rifle is missing...

Heres what i see as pros to the AR-15 platform

-Super customizable. You can pick whatever stock you want, foreend you want, grip you want, ect. it all just stems from a universal lower (ie a AR-15 lower will work with any AR-15 parts).

-Can be done cheap (M&P Sport or a PSA offering for ~500 bucks or so) to super expensive (ie a JP, Larue, JP, ect).

-Even cheap rifles these days tend to be good shooters. My PSA which i built for ~700 bucks (PSA premium upper) shoots MOA which is pretty good.

-One lower can service any AR-15 type upper (300blk, 762x39, 5.45x45, 6.8grendle, ect....just need different bolts/mags for some.


As for build vs buying....

You can build an AR with tools found around the house. Well the lower at least...uppers take a bit more (torque wrench, armorers tool, and vice block). So you can generally piece together a AR of high quality parts for cheaper than buying a factory model with the parts you want. If you are just going for cheap though then it is hard to beat the newer offerings there (mp sport for example). By building you also get exactly what you want right out of the gate instead of upgrading things.



As for the "cheapest to operate"....really you are looking at 556/223 or 762x39. but both cost about the same these days so i would still go with the 556/223 as it is way more common so be easier to source parts for at a LGS type place.





on another note i picked up a dillon 550b. Got it setup minus the priming portion and loaded up some 223 i had preprimed. Now just to get the priming setup and ill be gtg!

 

[phucheneh]

I picked up another CZ clone. Could not resist $329 for the T-120 with two 19 round mags. Shown with mag inserted into B6P. For the lulz.

$600 worth of guns right there. Hard to freaking beat. I've still yet to have a single malfunction from my T-100 or B6P. The latter has never even seen a cleaning in 500+ rounds. Well...an occasional oiled brush down the barrel/chamber to prevent severe fouling leading to corrosion. But that's it...I think it could survive a Glock-style torture test.

edit: I think the T-120 is going to become a poor man's race gun. Trying to decide whether I should buy one of those red dot mounts that fits the lower picatinny rail, or just put a laser on it.

 

[phucheneh]

Like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Mako-Universal.../dp/B004O6CDV0

Even has a pic of it on a Tanfoglio. Should work. Anyone used this style of mount and have recommendations? On the mount, or on a sight. Preferably a budget model (100 bucks, tops...not gonna buy an optic that costs as much as the gun) open reflex sight.

 

[velillen]

Like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Mako-Universal.../dp/B004O6CDV0

Even has a pic of it on a Tanfoglio. Should work. Anyone used this style of mount and have recommendations? On the mount, or on a sight. Preferably a budget model (100 bucks, tops...not gonna buy an optic that costs as much as the gun) open reflex sight.

I have the Sig one. Used it like once lol. They are a bit awkward till you get used to them i am sure. The dot sits a good inch above the slide so that is where it is weird. Dont really have a recommendation on the sight though (i just have the sig one which is ok)

 

[BladeVenom]

I think what made the AR-15 so popular was politicians wanting to take it away.

 

[TerryMathews]

I think what made the AR-15 so popular was politicians wanting to take it away.

No. What makes the AR15 popular is that all of the critical tolerances are contained within a handful of parts and doesn't require fitting parts.

Anybody can build one. It's very much like the desktop PC of rifles.

 

[slugg]

No. What makes the AR15 popular is that all of the critical tolerances are contained within a handful of parts and doesn't require fitting parts.

Anybody can build one. It's very much like the desktop PC of rifles.

Thanks for putting it into terms I can understand! So... Where to begin?

 

[TerryMathews]

Thanks for putting it into terms I can understand! So... Where to begin?

Step 1: tools
-At a minimum, you'll need some punches. Depending on what other parts you add onto the rifle, you may also need some torx or hex bits. Nothing really outside of a standard toolbox except for a few wrenches and you can get the ones you need all built into one multitool: http://www.m1surplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_16&products_id=592

Step 2: Decide what kind of rifle you want to build
-The beauty of the AR system is that you can customize it to your hearts content. Do you want a 16" barrel or 20"? Maybe even longer? Are you building a plinker or a weapon to take to some training classes? Do you want a fixed stock or a collapsible one? Are you building for bench rest shooting or do you want a weapon light enough to carry?

Step 3: Order parts
-The only piece that is considered the firearm is the lower receiver. Buy that locally if you can source one for a reasonable price. I bought mine at local gun shows. Everything else you can mail order.
-You'll also need to decide whether you want to buy a completed upper receiver or build your own. Either is acceptable, it really depends on what you want. If you just want a standard 16" flat top, no reason to build your own. You can get a nice one built for less than you can order parts and build it, guaranteed. Want to do something unusual, like a 12" quad rail over a 16" barrel using a carbine length gas port and a low profile gas block? DIY time.

Step 4: Build it
-The best diagrams and videos are at ar15.com

 

[BladeVenom]

No. What makes the AR15 popular is that all of the critical tolerances are contained within a handful of parts and doesn't require fitting parts.

Anybody can build one. It's very much like the desktop PC of rifles.

So then it was popular in the 60's when it came out? Or even the 70's or 80's.

Although some of that was before my time, I don't recall ARs being as popular as they are now until about the 90's.

 

[TerryMathews]

So then it was popular in the 60's when it came out? Or even the 70's or 80's.

Although some of that was before my time, I don't recall ARs being as popular as they are now until about the 90's.

I see your point but I would argue that the adoption of the internet by "every man" was the driving factor, not the AWB.

To this day, you basically have to order parts for them online. No store stocks a reasonable amount of AR parts although Gander Mountain is getting better.

In the 70s and 80s? I don't know how you'd come across the knowledge and parts to build one aside from word of mouth.

 

[phucheneh]

So I think I'ma pick me up one of these:

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Micro-Dot-With-Removable-Base-p/md-06.htm

to go with this already-mentioned mount, which seems to be the best option:

http://www.themakogroup.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1035197&CAT=8706

aside from drilling the frame. Which I'd prefer not to do...also, the mounts are somehow even more expensive.

I think that should make for a pretty tits range toy.

 

[velillen]

To this day, you basically have to order parts for them online. No store stocks a reasonable amount of AR parts although Gander Mountain is getting better.

Pretty much every lgs around me carries enough ar parts to build one around me. Can find BCG's, stripped lowers, stocks, lower parts kits, ect. Upper wise its mostly complete uppers though. Even Sportsmen Warehouse (big box store) carries everything you would need.

THough im lucky so if i need something i usually just go to the Rainier Arms store. But for the quick part or two i can stop by the POS lgs on the way home form work and get it there more than likely

In the 70s and 80s? I don't know how you'd come across the knowledge and parts to build one aside from word of mouth.

That applies to pretty much all firearms though. Gunsmiths used to be a lot more popular but now with the internet you have a lot more diy gunsmiths.

 

[TerryMathews]

Pretty much every lgs around me carries enough ar parts to build one around me. Can find BCG's, stripped lowers, stocks, lower parts kits, ect. Upper wise its mostly complete uppers though. Even Sportsmen Warehouse (big box store) carries everything you would need.

THough im lucky so if i need something i usually just go to the Rainier Arms store. But for the quick part or two i can stop by the POS lgs on the way home form work and get it there more than likely



That applies to pretty much all firearms though. Gunsmiths used to be a lot more popular but now with the internet you have a lot more diy gunsmiths.

You're lucky then, no LGSes here stock beyond a smattering of "go-fast parts".

To your other comment, I would suggest that building a traditional firearm like a Mauser action rifle requires a level of competence and tools that are not common in hobbyists. You get to skip steps building an AR that could literally kill you if they were wrong on a Mauser, like head spacing.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

Anybody can build one. It's very much like the desktop PC of rifles.

I prefer to compare that rifle to an F150 or a Civic. Everyone has one, and everyone tries to make theirs look "different"...but they end up all looking the same in the end.

(shhh, I hate these rifles :sneaky

 

[TerryMathews]

I prefer to compare that rifle to an F150 or a Civic. Everyone has one, and everyone tries to make theirs look "different"...but they end up all looking the same in the end.

(shhh, I hate these rifles :sneaky

Its another good comparison. Doesn't capture the different skill set required to work on a "real" rifle though.

 

[Phoenix86]

I'm eyeing a P229 or P226 (extreme model) as my first pistol purchase. Going to go rent those two, a XD and a Glock so I can get a decent comparison, BUT why not as you fine peeps your opinion on the difference between the two.

Is the barrel length the primary difference? While I'm not likely to carry this, I wouldn't mind the option so the shorter barrel seems appealing.

 

[pontifex]

you could also do what i did and build the lower and buy a complete upper.

I did that because it was easy to do the lower and required less tools to buy, also less chance of messing it up.

 

[phucheneh]

I'm eyeing a P229 or P226 (extreme model) as my first pistol purchase. Going to go rent those two, a XD and a Glock so I can get a decent comparison, BUT why not as you fine peeps your opinion on the difference between the two.

Is the barrel length the primary difference? While I'm not likely to carry this, I wouldn't mind the option so the shorter barrel seems appealing.

Not much point in renting both a 226 and 229. They're gonna shoot the same. The 229 is just better sized for carry, or simply someone with smaller hands.

The XD and Glock could not be further in the other direction. The Glock has totally different ergonomics and is striker-fired with a much different trigger. And the XD is kind of like a Glock with a trigger that's not made of dicks.

 

[Svnla]

If you don't have the skill or time or tools to build an AR, this is how you do it.

Upper (barrel made by FN) with BCG and CH ($350) = http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-mid-length-cl-mp-premium-upper.html

Lower ($150) = http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...lete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html

Free shipping if you can wait when PSA have free shipping or you can pay about $30 for shipping.

FFL fee = $15 in my case. Get all the parts, snap them in together for less than a few minutes and you are ready to go (well, you have to get a rear sight plus magazine with ammo of course).

A good AR 15 for less than $550 is not bad.

 

[Phanuel]

Not much point in renting both a 226 and 229. They're gonna shoot the same. The 229 is just better sized for carry, or simply someone with smaller hands.

The XD and Glock could not be further in the other direction. The Glock has totally different ergonomics and is striker-fired with a much different trigger. And the XD is kind of like a Glock with a trigger that's not made of dicks.

XD has the shittiest combination of control features ever assembled on a pistol though. Grip safety must be depressed to cycle the action, bleh. Pass.

 

[Phoenix86]

Not much point in renting both a 226 and 229. They're gonna shoot the same. The 229 is just better sized for carry, or simply someone with smaller hands.

The XD and Glock could not be further in the other direction. The Glock has totally different ergonomics and is striker-fired with a much different trigger. And the XD is kind of like a Glock with a trigger that's not made of dicks.

I don't have small hands, but they aren't huge. Why is the 229 better for smaller hands? The Extreme version of both are have the 15 round mags, I'd expect the same hand size fits both guns. I have read both guns shoot differently, the 226 is a bit more top heavy.

I'd consider the single stack 229s and doing some mod work later, it just seem that the extreme has all the mods I'd want out of the box. I just hate the name.

I want to play with an XD and Glock because of the different mechanics/ergonomics. First time buyer. However, I'm strongly leaning towards a Sig for the reasons you mention. It seems to operate how I want or expect a gun to work, but I'm not sold one way vs. another.