YAGT: OMG I love guns

[BlitzPuppet]

I owned an ACOG. I won't knock the optics - they were quite good, and BAC did work. I will however say it wasn't worth that cost, to me. But again, the AR15 just didn't do it for me. No modern rifle, really does. The most modern rifle I'm likely to own is an HK91/PTR91 or an FAL. I'm far more likely to put my money into owning a Lee Enfield 1917, Arisaka, Springfield trapdoor, Spencer carbine or something like that.

But I'm also the person who watches people train with their AR15s to move and shoot and whatnot and laugh at them - people who "train like the military." I have a friend who went to Nepal and Thailand a couple years ago. While in Thailand with a medical team, they were being escorted by an off duty cop who checked out an MP5 and a Glock of some form (17 or 19, I forget which.) from the armory. They WERE shot at a couple of times, and my friend (who knows enough about guns to become a gunsmith...) was handed the Glock. IIRC, he said there was a point where he was in cover behind a rock, returning fire. His reaction when he was back in the US was "people who think they're ready for the worst really don't have any clue whatsoever."

My least favorite part of any gun community is the people who buy AR15/10s or AK47/74s, go tacticool and then want to open carry the gun around. In other words, AR15.com is my least favorite part of the gun community. I truly wish AR15s would lose their popularity (and all the other modern offerings - AK47s, SCARs, Tavors) - I have a strong suspicion that if that would happen, the current push we see for gun control would be greatly diminished.

I'm right there with you. The whole tacticool fad is pretty bad in the gun world...

I can't help but laugh on how stupid some of the "training" looks...I can't remember what it's called but I call it the "tyrannosaurus uses a pistol" pose they go to after they are done with shooting.

 

[Jeeebus]

IIRC, he said there was a point where he was in cover behind a rock, returning fire. His reaction when he was back in the US was "people who think they're ready for the worst really don't have any clue whatsoever."

I've said this before several times in this thread and most people just shrug it off as bullshit. There is a huge difference between going to the range slowly shooting at paper targets and having your heart feel like it's going to rip out of your chest from the adrenaline of a live battle. Lots of people on this forum criticize cops/military personnel for missing as if they are some kind of super robot impervious to the stress of a real life scenario. No amount of range time or time spent cruising internet forums is going to change that, and it shocks me that so many people refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[corwin]

I've said this before several times in this thread and most people just shrug it off as bullshit. There is a huge difference between going to the range slowly shooting at paper targets and having your heart feel like it's going to rip out of your chest from the adrenaline of a live battle. Lots of people on this forum criticize cops/military personnel for missing as if they are some kind of super robot impervious to the stress of a real life scenario. No amount of range time or time spent cruising internet forums is going to change that, and it shocks me that so many people refuse to acknowledge it.

Jeeebus, not this shit again

Had to say it:awe:

Seriously though it's true, and anyone who doesn't acknowledge it will be lucky to never have to actually find out how true it is first hand.

 

[Phanuel]

I'm right there with you. The whole tacticool fad is pretty bad in the gun world...

I can't help but laugh on how stupid some of the "training" looks...I can't remember what it's called but I call it the "tyrannosaurus uses a pistol" pose they go to after they are done with shooting.

Sul position.

 

[MongGrel]

Yeah, just open carrying an assault rifle in store etc is pretty ridiculous to me.

Really does damage to everyone elses reputation.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm right there with you. The whole tacticool fad is pretty bad in the gun world...

I can't help but laugh on how stupid some of the "training" looks...I can't remember what it's called but I call it the "tyrannosaurus uses a pistol" pose they go to after they are done with shooting.

Sadly most gun forums cater to the suburban commando and not proper shooters.



Then theres the extreme:

 

[Merad]

But I'm also the person who watches people train with their AR15s to move and shoot and whatnot and laugh at them - people who "train like the military."

I crack up every time I see someone shooting their AR "operator" style or doing the tactical turtle with a pistol.

Yeah, just open carrying an assault rifle in store etc is pretty ridiculous to me.

I catch flak for it on a lot of gun forums, but I'll continue to argue that OCing a rifle in a populated area is not a normal or rational thing to do. Especially not the fools who go around with their loaded rifles held at low ready.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

Sul position.

Is that what this is at 1:33?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mr-NfNWg2ho#t=93

It looks so stupid and awkward :/

 

[Unheard]

Is it too late for me to join? Here's a couple of my latest purchases.

 

[FallenHero]

Nice. My AR is very similar like yours. Tell me more about the sling and the sling rings. Brand, price, and where to purchase.

In can post the entire build if you like, but it's a Viking tactics padded sling with two quick detach points. I ordered mine at rainier arms. You could probably get one on amazon for free shipping if you are a prime member.

 

[Zargon]

I crack up every time I see someone shooting their AR "operator" style or doing the tactical turtle with a pistol.

you are probably just sore they make fun of your shooting styles


Ive never seen someone actually do that, but my range is a lot of middle agers, and newbies

we teach them all chapman, modern isosceles, or weaver(rarely, we shy people away from it)





I have never tried the 'operator' stance for a rifle, but I don't have one setup for it really at the moment.

the idea behind it seems sound, for cqb rifle, though

I've said this before several times in this thread and most people just shrug it off as bullshit. There is a huge difference between going to the range slowly shooting at paper targets and having your heart feel like it's going to rip out of your chest from the adrenaline of a live battle. Lots of people on this forum criticize cops/military personnel for missing as if they are some kind of super robot impervious to the stress of a real life scenario. No amount of range time or time spent cruising internet forums is going to change that, and it shocks me that so many people refuse to acknowledge it.

I shoot with cops all the time

some of them aren't very good. at. the. range.

I doubt they become awesome under fire.

 

[Jeeebus]

I shoot with cops all the time

some of them aren't very good. at. the. range.

I doubt they become awesome under fire.

WOOSH.

That was the sound of your bullets going over a perpetrator's head.

Actually no, you''re right. I'm sure you'd be awesome under stress. Not as awesome as me though because I'vs seen more action movies than you.

 

[phucheneh]

Sadly most gun forums cater to the suburban commando and not proper shooters.



Then theres the extreme:

To be fair, fat airsoft kid probably has a lot more experience against people who shoot back than your average tacticool rangemonkey.

He's doing a combo of simulated combat, and, well, LARPing. When you see someone in fatigues and a MOLLE vest at the range (I know I have)...that, sir, is a douchebag.

edit: also, Merad's labels seem kinda strange, too. 'Tactical turtle' pic is an isosceles stance, which is what pretty much all pro pistol shooters use. I have not seen much of that in the armed forces. While someone may not be competition shooter, I really can't knock them for copying a pro. Personally, I can't do it. I use a Weaver-esque stance...I think there's a name for it, but I can't recall. It is largely due to cross-eye dominance.

As for the 'operator style' with an AR, I was worried you were mocking a magwell grip, which is quite effective. I'd imagine a closely mounted VFG is probably a lot more popular nowadays. Not sure what the fuck the guy in your pic is doing, but it's not very 'operator.' That's how Magpul AFG's are supposed to be held...so I agree with you on this one, as I've never actually seen a soldier use an AFG.

 

[Zargon]

WOOSH.

That was the sound of your bullets going over a perpetrator's head.

Actually no, you''re right. I'm sure you'd be awesome under stress. Not as awesome as me though because I'vs seen more action movies than you.

I never said I would be awesome, shows that you have nothing no, by attacking me. I'm a empty mag towards center of mass kinda guy, not a two to the chest one to the head kinda guy(because I couldn't do it, most likely)

I take great.....lack of solace, shooting at a LEO range, and outshooting people who do this for a living, with my mediocre skills

you should too.

everyone should.

phuch: that's the new hotness, mount an AFG all the way up front on the handguard

its more swat/tacticool-cwb oriented than military

in theory you get great leverage to move the firearm around quickly and accurately

I will +1 the magwell grip btw, have one, love it.

 

[Zargon]

and to get pseudo back on topic

 

[Jeeebus]

I never said I would be awesome, shows that you have nothing no, by attacking me. I'm a empty mag towards center of mass kinda guy, not a two to the chest one to the head kinda guy(because I couldn't do it, most likely)

I take great.....lack of solace, shooting at a LEO range, and outshooting people who do this for a living, with my mediocre skills

you should too.

everyone should.

Agree to get back on topic. lol @ AR pic - took me a second... at first I thought that was some fancy electronic accessory mounted on top rail.

 

[pontifex]

Being tacticool for the sake of being tacticool is dumb, but to totally dismiss something because you don't like the way it looks is really dumb.
A lot of these tactics and techniques are done because they work in real life scenarios or have real life benefits, not because someone thinks they look cool.

 

[phucheneh]

That IS a lovely grip on the magwell. Who makes that?

I was just referring to general idea of gripping the magwell. Back before there were all kinds of bolt-on AR accessories (and our troops just got M16A2's), gripping the magwell was really the way to go for CQB. Basically simulated a vertical foregrip; which is to say it fatigues your weak arm less than a normal grip and WAY less than the really-far-away-AFG.

Plus it gives you the most stable, albeit small, shooting platform...I don't understand why anyone would target shoot without trying to get their arms in the most well-supported state (i.e. elbows close to your body).

Seems to me you should also be able to turn a lot quicker that way...even saying the silly AFG stance gives more leverage doesn't really jive with me. Your muscles work a lot better when they're not all the way extended.

 

[Tiamat]

That IS a lovely grip on the magwell. Who makes that?

I was just referring to general idea of gripping the magwell. Back before there were all kinds of bolt-on AR accessories (and our troops just got M16A2's), gripping the magwell was really the way to go for CQB. Basically simulated a vertical foregrip; which is to say it fatigues your weak arm less than a normal grip and WAY less than the really-far-away-AFG.

Plus it gives you the most stable, albeit small, shooting platform...I don't understand why anyone would target shoot without trying to get their arms in the most well-supported state (i.e. elbows close to your body).

Seems to me you should also be able to turn a lot quicker that way...even saying the silly AFG stance gives more leverage doesn't really jive with me. Your muscles work a lot better when they're not all the way extended.

The super extended support arm seems to only be useful for rapid fire to control the muzzle. It doesn't seem to be all that great for slow fire or target at all due to lack of skeletal anchoring.

 

[Svnla]

In can post the entire build if you like, but it's a Viking tactics padded sling with two quick detach points. I ordered mine at rainier arms. You could probably get one on amazon for free shipping if you are a prime member.

That would be great if you can post the details (brand, price, vendor) of your build.

I am trying to buy things on Amazon because I have a large gift card balance. TIA.

 

[Merad]

edit: also, Merad's labels seem kinda strange, too. 'Tactical turtle' pic is an isosceles stance, which is what pretty much all pro pistol shooters use. I have not seen much of that in the armed forces. While someone may not be competition shooter, I really can't knock them for copying a pro. Personally, I can't do it. I use a Weaver-esque stance...I think there's a name for it, but I can't recall. It is largely due to cross-eye dominance.

This is a guy using a pretty typically isosceles stance. Compare to Mr. Turtle, who has an exaggerated forward lean plus his head scrunched down between his shoulders (hence, the "turtle").

As for the 'operator style' with an AR, I was worried you were mocking a magwell grip, which is quite effective. I'd imagine a closely mounted VFG is probably a lot more popular nowadays. Not sure what the fuck the guy in your pic is doing, but it's not very 'operator.' That's how Magpul AFG's are supposed to be held...so I agree with you on this one, as I've never actually seen a soldier use an AFG.

I don't really see the need to actually add a grip to the magwell, but gripping the magwell can be very effective IMO.

But yeah, the hot new style among the "I'm a super cool 3-gun competitor" / "I wish a was an operator" crowd is holding the handguard as far forward as possible with your support arm cocked up in that weird way. Who knows, it might actually work better when all you're doing it running through a course that lasts 2 minutes tops. It isn't really a practical shooting style though, because it's making your support arm do extra work holding an unnatural position.

 

[clamum]

Eh, I dunno, that "turtle" guy is just shooting a pistol with good form.

 

[Phoenix86]

WOOSH.

That was the sound of your bullets going over a perpetrator's head.

Actually no, you''re right. I'm sure you'd be awesome under stress. Not as awesome as me though because I'vs seen more action movies than you.

I'm pretty sure there's a point where you can control the heat of combat to a fair degree, but I'm thinking special forces level of training. Nothing you'd see from your average cop or even soldier.

I expect even with that training a fair amount are affected by it strongly, conversely there are some people who can keep things under control with little to no training.

That being said, 99.9% will not react well under extreme stress. This can be shown time and again. Why people think they would be different is really odd.

 

[Zargon]

That IS a lovely grip on the magwell. Who makes that?

I was just referring to general idea of gripping the magwell. Back before there were all kinds of bolt-on AR accessories (and our troops just got M16A2's), gripping the magwell was really the way to go for CQB. Basically simulated a vertical foregrip; which is to say it fatigues your weak arm less than a normal grip and WAY less than the really-far-away-AFG.

Plus it gives you the most stable, albeit small, shooting platform...I don't understand why anyone would target shoot without trying to get their arms in the most well-supported state (i.e. elbows close to your body).

Seems to me you should also be able to turn a lot quicker that way...even saying the silly AFG stance gives more leverage doesn't really jive with me. Your muscles work a lot better when they're not all the way extended.

leverage on the gun, not leverage for you, per say

you are at the end of the barrel, instead of it swinging way out there, its why we put door handles opposite of the hinges instead of in the middle(well, unless you live in a hobbit house )

that's the idea, I believe, though


this is the one I have

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/weapon-m16-m4-ar15/id-179/mag-well-grip-funnel-for-ar15-m16-m4.html


ergo makes one that looks a bit more steamlined....but doesn't have as big of a gripping surface
http://www.lapolicegear.com/sixell-never-quit-grip.html

 

[HumblePie]

Agree to get back on topic. lol @ AR pic - took me a second... at first I thought that was some fancy electronic accessory mounted on top rail.

Lol was thinking alien(s) pulse pistol ammo counter as well. Speaking of which, why don't we have that yet???