YAGT: OMG I love guns

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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Spent the last while looking at youtube videos to learn about all this stuff. Pretty sure I've got it all down.

Why would anyone want a DAO or SAO gun? Isn't SA/DA so much more usable?

Sometimes for a personal protection pistol some people prefer a DAO with a heavy trigger and no safety and chambered round.
Some folks prefer a SAO with an external hammer and manual safety.

Me: For daily carry I want something that is very simple and always works one way. Thats why I have the LCP.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
Why would anyone want a DAO or SAO gun? Isn't SA/DA so much more usable?

SA/DA pistols usually have the worst DA trigger pulls, and their SA trigger pull usually isn't as good as a SAO pistol.

Several of the DAO pistols, are half-cocked to make their trigger pull easier than a true DA handgun.

A lot of people prefer the consistency of a DAO or SAO pistol.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Ah, got it. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective, since I think i wont carry (i'll probably get a lifetime license later though, theyre inexpensive ($125)).

Ok, one final decocker question. If i engage the decocker, and it lowers the hammer safely, if I pull the trigger again (and it's a DAO, or SA/DA under certain circumstances), it will definitely fire, right?

Reason I ask is because it seems on most guns, the hammer is just lowered partially with still a tiny bit of space left (I know (thanks jeffreylebowski!) not all decockers are the same). If one pulls the trigger, will the hammer lower that extra amount of space (DAO+SA/DA)probably not enough force to matter?), or will the hammer just go back and then fire (DAO)?

It will fire. The Beretta is like that. Decock and safety. Disengage safety, you can shoot again normally. Or cock manually. Your choice.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
Mmmm, if a pistol is DAO it shouldn't even be possible for the hammer to stay cocked back. A decocker has no purpose there.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
Why would anyone want a DAO or SAO gun? Isn't SA/DA so much more usable?

SAO guns should have the smoothest/best triggers. But, if for any reason the round doesn't fire you are stuck manually racking the slide or recocking the hammer. DAO let's you keep pulling the trigger, but it's always a heavy trigger pull since you're cocking the hammer via the trigger. DA/SA is a compromise, but even in SA mode the trigger won't be as good as a SAO.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
I use 50-120 rounds per range trip.

Only 120? More out of curiosity i guess but how many rounds do others use per a trip? Ive been pretty much doing 50-100 357mag and ~230 9mm rounds per a trip. over 2-3 hours mind you.

i do reload my rounds to so not as worried about cost. And im only going once or twice a month (if that...itll be ~4 months till i can go shooting again now)
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
Just depends, if I'm going a couple times a month I may only do 50-100 rounds of service caliber and a couple hundred rounds of .22. If I haven't been in a month or more I may do 200+ service caliber and 2-300 .22. I don't reload.
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
0
Spent the last while looking at youtube videos to learn about all this stuff. Pretty sure I've got it all down.

Why would anyone want a DAO or SAO gun? Isn't SA/DA so much more usable?
SAO guns are able to have very light, smooth triggers, and are thus more accurate to shoot.
The downside in professional use is that those light triggers mean the gun has to have an external safety, the shooter has to operate that safety reflexively, and the shooter has to have trigger discipline (no finger on the trigger before intending to shoot). This takes more training to do reliably. Police etc. organizations rarely buy SAO because of that. They want their stuff idiotproof.

My gun is DA/SA because competition rules require starting in double action. When I'm not shooting under those rules, I shoot the gun in single action. If I did not have the rules to consider, I'd swap the trigger to make the gun SAO. Note that a DA/SA gun can only properly emulate a SAO gun if it has an external safety, not a decocker. (I frankly don't see the point of decockers.)
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
OMG, i keep seeing people talk about getting so and so gun, which seems to be way under retail, and then when i check any online stores, the gun is like 1.25-1.5+*MSRP. Also, i wish i could set up a payment plan on a gun, lol.

depends on when they bought it. back right before Obama got elected prices on everything skyrocketed. before that election, i could buy 9mm for $6-7 a box and .22 LR for like $9 a box of 500. WASR AKs could be had for like $300, now they're like $400+, SKS could be had for about 200-250, now they're about $350+. used to be higher even back then.

now a box of 9mm is like $10-15+ depending on where you buy it. .22 lr is like $14-20+ a box for 325, sometimes getting a box of 500 for that price. prices vary a lot too. chain store like Dick's, Cabela's, Gander mtn are the worst for prices on everything. private owned shops MIGHT be a little better but usually not much. and online is usually where you see the best prices but then you have to pay shipping too.

things have started to come down a little, but not as fast as they went up. With another election year and Obama running again, I would expect prices to jump again.


As for SA/DA, didn't you read what people told you?

DA - once a round is chambered, each trigger pull will cock the hammer, striker, or firing pin, and will additionally release the same to fire a cartridge in one continuous motion.

SA - must be cocked by first operating the slide or bolt, or, if a round is already chambered, by cocking the hammer manually. the trigger pull only fires the gun (releases hammer, striker, or firing pin)
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Yeah, i did, and i though I understood it, guess not. I thought an SA/DA gun (at least, according to the video i saw) has its hammer cocked back by the pressure generated when a bullet is fired. SO if the hammer is decocked, wouldn't it not really do anything until you cocked it back, fired, upon which the hammer would be cocked back again?

ok...when you fire a da/sa gun several things happen and/or you can do them different ways and also depends on the type of handun.

in SA/DA semi, you rack the slide to chamber a round and the racking of the slide also cocks the hammer. With the hammer back, the gun is in SA mode, so the trigger pull is going to be lighter. After it fires, the slide comes back and re-cocks the hammer and puts the gun back into SA mode.

If you chamber a round and lower the hammer, the gun is now in DA mode. Pulling the trigger also cocks the hammer and releases it at the same time. This makes the trigger pull much heavier. The gun fires and the slide comes back and cocks the hammer. so you're now in SA mode again. to put it back into DA mode, you have to lower the hammer, either with a decocker or manually by holding the hammer and pulling the trigger, slowly letting the hammer come down.

On a SA/DA revolver, you can pull the hammer back before each shot which rotates the cylinder and cocks the hammer. After you fire, it will be in DA mode. You can then pull the hammer back again or just pull the trigger which will cock the hammer, rotate the cylinder, and release the hammer to fire. So on a revolver, it kind of works the opposite way after each shot.

In a SA only, You chamber a round which cocks the hammer. Again, SA mode has a much lighter trigger pull since you are only releasing the hammer, not cocking it at the same time. Slide comes back and cocks the hammer again and you're back in SA mode.

SA only revolver you just have to pull the hammer back after each shot. pulling the trigger while the hammer is down will do nothing.

If you lower the hammer on a SA only semi and pull the trigger, nothing will happen as the hammer is not cocked. You have to either rack the slide or cock the hammer after each shot. On a SA only semi, like the 1911, the slide coming back after each shot cocks the trigger.


In DA only, you chamber the round and the hammer is not cocked or may be only partially cocked. pulling the trigger cocks the hammer and releases it, firing the round. the hammer then is back to it's original position, either uncocked or partially cocked. DA only guns probably don't have a traditional hammer or a visible hammer, or a hammer at all (striker fired pistols).
On DA only revolver, the hammer will be lowered after each shot and pulling the trigger rotates the cylinder and cocks and releases the hammer.

to further complicate things, some guns have a magazine disconnect. If the magazine is not inserted into the gun (or not inserted properly), it will not fire, even if the hammer is cocked and there is a round in the chamber.

and as a safety tip, never rely on a mechanical safety. mechanical parts can and will fail. this is 1 reason why you should always point the gun in a safe direction.
 
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pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Pontifex, you are a genius, thanks! :awe:

I'm not a genius, the people who created these tools are geniuses. I'm just relaying knowledge of how stuff works.

Also, I edited my post a little to add some more info/clarification.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
Soo...gun show is here in a week or so! Anything i should avoid/expect/etc?

Yes, it's mostly overpriced stuff so don't jump on anything without knowing before hand. (ie: don't make your own decisions) I used to think gun shows were great for deals, but now that I know what local gun shops charge I realize these gun shows are just more expensive. You CAN find a deal, but it's rare in my experience so don't get your hopes up. If nothing else just pick up and handle as many different guns as you can. Take notes on what you think FEELS right (not what LOOKS cool) and come back here with what you think felt solid.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
bought my range membership tonight.. its $55/yr non NRA member and 50 cents each time you shoot for a couple targets. I did OK for my second time out, but cant wait to go back on Monday for more practice. Went through only 50 rounds as the guy I was there with was getting bored.
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
1
81
Only 120? More out of curiosity i guess but how many rounds do others use per a trip? Ive been pretty much doing 50-100 357mag and ~230 9mm rounds per a trip. over 2-3 hours mind you.

i do reload my rounds to so not as worried about cost. And im only going once or twice a month (if that...itll be ~4 months till i can go shooting again now)

Right now I'm averaging between 300-350 rounds of 9mm, and about the same amount in .22LR per trip, and I have been able to make it down to the range about once a week for the last couple of months.

At $190...ish/1000 for factory reman'd 115gr JHP practice ammo I'm not hurting too bad price wise, but I'd *really* like to start reloading.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Yes, it's mostly overpriced stuff so don't jump on anything without knowing before hand. (ie: don't make your own decisions) I used to think gun shows were great for deals, but now that I know what local gun shops charge I realize these gun shows are just more expensive. You CAN find a deal, but it's rare in my experience so don't get your hopes up. If nothing else just pick up and handle as many different guns as you can. Take notes on what you think FEELS right (not what LOOKS cool) and come back here with what you think felt solid.

i think years ago gun shows were better for prices, but not any more. yeah, you can find deals sometimes, but usually not.

one thing is you have many gun shops with a shit load of guns to check out. you can then compare prices and even try to haggle if you're brave enough.
if you have some guns in mind, definitely see what your local guys sell it for and check online for prices, so you have an idea.

don't forget that if you buy online, you have to pay for shipping and transfer fees which could totally negate any savings you find online or even make it cost more.
 
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