YAGT: OMG I love guns

[velillen]

How's your experience been with the Lee turret? I was looking into snagging one but was turned off by reports of the auto-indexing mechanism breaking.

I actually dont use the auto indexing feature on mine. i removed the rod for it and use it in a "single stage" style. But thats due to how i do my reloading as well.

I generally do my tumbling then go ahead and resize/deprime then flare the end for the bullet to seat. I then just toss those cases in a tupperware for storage. Once im ready to load i use some trays and the powder dropper you can see to load the powder. That way im able to check all the powders against each other visually (and double checking random weights). Then i plop the bullets on the cases, apply slightly pressure and they seat. Then i finally go back to the press and seat the bullet fully and finally crimp the case.

Hope that makes sense at least lol. Basically i only use two of the four dies at a time so the auto indexing is an annoyance more than helpful

 

[slag]

I misread his message. I was thinking 50 YARDS, not feet.

25 meters is a bit much, especially for an inexperienced shooter. I've never done much in the way of public range shooting though, most of my shooting is 30-40 feet on a private range. This is much farther than you would ever need in a self defense situation, so I don't see the point in shooting at more than double that range.

50 yards is insane for a handgun and there is absolutely no need to even attempt it unless you are a marksman. I'm shooting to be good at self defense ranges, which is typically 10-20 feet, give or take. Still can do better though at 50, just need more practice.

 

[Merad]

???

Pretty much all of the gun ranges where I live are 25m = 82ft, and it's unusual that anyone (other than us IPSC guys) would shoot at a shorter distance. Everyone takes their very first handgun shots at 82ft.

Why in the world would you start a new shooter at 25m? Unless they are incredibly lucky or talented they probably won't even hit the paper. They won't learn anything useful and are more likely to get discouraged.

That (side rant) is kind of like the guys who take their wife/gf to the range and start her out with hot .44 Magnum loads, laugh at her misery and then whine later about how she doesn't like shooting.

 

[gorcorps]

50 yards is insane for a handgun and there is absolutely no need to even attempt it unless you are a marksman. I'm shooting to be good at self defense ranges, which is typically 10-20 feet, give or take. Still can do better though at 50, just need more practice.

No kidding. Even with my AR I have trouble seeing the target at 50yds (unscoped). The target is so small at that point that my front sight post covers the entire target end to end. So there's no "aim for bullseye", it's more "aim at paper"

 

[jpeyton]

???

Pretty much all of the gun ranges where I live are 25m = 82ft, and it's unusual that anyone (other than us IPSC guys) would shoot at a shorter distance. Everyone takes their very first handgun shots at 82ft.

At my favorite pistol range, almost everyone who comes in (seasoned or not) sets their targets at 10 yards or less, even though the pistol range is 25 yards.

 

[alkemyst]

???

Pretty much all of the gun ranges where I live are 25m = 82ft, and it's unusual that anyone (other than us IPSC guys) would shoot at a shorter distance. Everyone takes their very first handgun shots at 82ft.

That is really really bizarre. Is this an outdoor or fixed range?

Around here all the indoor ranges have standard cable driven target mounts.

82ft is absurd to use a pistol at to begin with and not likely going to match any home defense or self defense need.

 

[Phoenix15]

Oh, absolutely. Hence my thinking before that if you could do 50 yards, you were doing something right. 7-10 feet would be the most ever needed in a self defense situation.

50 yards is insane for a handgun and there is absolutely no need to even attempt it unless you are a marksman. I'm shooting to be good at self defense ranges, which is typically 10-20 feet, give or take. Still can do better though at 50, just need more practice.

 

[Pia]

Why in the world would you start a new shooter at 25m? Unless they are incredibly lucky or talented they probably won't even hit the paper. They won't learn anything useful and are more likely to get discouraged.

If that's what you are seeing, I'm sure the new shooters you are talking do not have reasonable instruction.

At a range where I occasionally go to, they have introductory sessions simultaneously with normal range time. So an instructor/RO sits the newbies down, teaches them basic safety, grip, aiming and trigger pull, for maybe 10-15 minutes. Then they join the rest of us at the range for about 40 minutes of shooting and the instructor keeps correcting their mistakes. My impression is that the majority of people gets some hits on the target right off the bat, and at the end of the session almost no shots are being missed. I once brought a Japanese guest of mine, who had never seen a gun, to the range and her performance reflected this average. Immediately got some hits, missed a handful, and rose to maybe 95% hit rate after having shot 30 minutes.

 

[Phoenix15]

That (side rant) is kind of like the guys who take their wife/gf to the range and start her out with hot .44 Magnum loads, laugh at her misery and then whine later about how she doesn't like shooting.

I hate that crap. Idiots that think it's "funny" to hand a waaaaay overpowered handgun, or even worse, rifle to some 100 pound girl that has never fired a gun in her life. Pretty much guarantees they will hate guns for the rest of there life.

 

[Phoenix15]

If that's what you are seeing, I'm sure the new shooters you are talking do not have reasonable instruction.

At a range where I occasionally go to, they have introductory sessions simultaneously with normal range time. So an instructor/RO sits the newbies down, teaches them basic safety, grip, aiming and trigger pull, for maybe 10-15 minutes. Then they join the rest of us at the range for about 40 minutes of shooting and the instructor keeps correcting their mistakes. My impression is that the majority of people gets some hits on the target right off the bat, and at the end of the session almost no shots are being missed. I once brought a Japanese guest of mine, who had never seen a gun, to the range and her performance reflected this average. Immediately got some hits, missed a handful, and rose to maybe 95% hit rate after having shot 30 minutes.

Please let me know where these superhuman instructors are that can take a person that has never seen a gun and have them hitting paper with 95% at a distance most shooters don't even bother practicing at.

 

[Kelvrick]

Please let me know where these superhuman instructors are that can take a person that has never seen a gun and have them hitting paper with 95% at a distance most shooters don't even bother practicing at.

I'll agree that 25 yards is unnecessary but it isn't that hard. You won't get constant X or 9 circle hits on the standard b-27 target, but you're going to hit paper even if you don't use the sights and use a point shooting technique.

I usually start someone off with a 22 pistol and put the paper around 15 and have them get comfortable that the gun won't hurt them. At that distance on a black target, you won't see the holes anyway, so its a good way to where their shots land naturally without them compensating every time they see a hole outside the middle.

For self defense, you shouldn't be practicing anything further away than 21 feet or the longest distance between walls in your house. Most people forget to practice in the 5 feet and under range.

 

[jpeyton]

For self defense, you shouldn't be practicing anything further away than 21 feet or the longest distance between walls in your house. Most people forget to practice in the 5 feet and under range.

And remember to practice your draw. At 25 feet or less, you should be able to draw, aim and fire in 3 seconds or less. Slower than that, and you will be chopped in half.

Mythbusters

 

[Pia]

That is really really bizarre. Is this an outdoor or fixed range?

Both indoor and outdoor ranges are like this. Including commercial ranges, public pistol ranges and army pistol ranges.

The ranges are 25m because it's a normal sports shooting distance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISSF_shooting_events

To practice close-up shooting, shooting while moving etc., you either get to a range where you can be alone (public outdoor ranges are often empty) or reserve the range with a group of people with same interests.

Around here all the indoor ranges have standard cable driven target mounts.

Unfortunately, no range here has cable driven target mounts. If there are other shooters on the range who want to shoot from 25m, you can't go closer to the targets to shoot. At an indoor range you can of course hang your target closer to the firing line.

82ft is absurd to use a pistol at to begin with and not likely going to match any home defense or self defense need.

I agree that you aren't likely to make shots of that distance in those applications, but it's a perfectly fine distance to develop basic attributes which carry over for all kinds of shooting.

 

[ManBearPig]

deleted

 

[Merad]

Can anyone please recommend a gun lock and other safety equipment I may need for the handgun/ammo I'm getting? I don't even know where to begin. Just wanna keep shit in the house safe. Amazon links would be awesome. Thanks fellas.

Many/most new guns sold today include a lock.

If yours doesn't and you want a lock just get something like this http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-10.../dp/B000LX86RU

 

[RampantAndroid]

I hate that crap. Idiots that think it's "funny" to hand a waaaaay overpowered handgun, or even worse, rifle to some 100 pound girl that has never fired a gun in her life. Pretty much guarantees they will hate guns for the rest of there life.

Someone did that at a range near where I am (a range I'm a member at.) They loaded 6 rounds of 44 mag up, girl fired...gun went over head, she tried holding on to it, squeezed...fired...boyfriend became her ex. I believe davmat787 was present when this happened and witnessed the cleanup IIRC. Thankfully she was not charged with any crime. There's a darn good reason I ALWAYS start people off on a .22. Unless they tell me they fire guns regularly or they own, they don't touch my guns until they fire a .22. I also only load 1 round at a time for them for each new gun they fire - 1 round in the mag, 1 round in the cylinder or whatever.

But I see women at the range, high heels on and everything. Wrong attire...(unless they're practicing for a self defense situation and need to get used to handling a gun like that. But new shooters firing a high caliber handgun wearing non-functional clothing is just wrong.)

Can anyone please recommend a gun lock and other safety equipment I may need for the handgun/ammo I'm getting? I don't even know where to begin. Just wanna keep shit in the house safe. Amazon links would be awesome. Thanks fellas.

Do you want this gun for self defense? If so, AT MOST get a gun safe that opens with a handprint reader. But if it's an SD gun and you don't have kids, honestly just don't lock it up. Any "safety" measures on keeping the gun "safe" also equate to extra time it takes you to arm yourself when you are in trouble.

 

[Pia]

Please let me know where these superhuman instructors are that can take a person that has never seen a gun and have them hitting paper with 95% at a distance most shooters don't even bother practicing at.

... except everyone here shoots at that distance and considers it normal.
Maybe you are thinking of small targets? The targets people normally use here are this:
http://www.barbarobersagli.it/pages/catalogo_eng.asp?id=29
55cm is HUGE. It really is not a big deal to at least hit the target.

In the case of my Japanese guest, I taught her and supervised her shooting. Stands to reason she would have done better if taught and supervised by an actual instructor, but like I said, her performance was very much the same as the newbies taught by the instructors seem to have on average.

 

[schneiderguy]

Someone did that at a range near where I am (a range I'm a member at.) They loaded 6 rounds of 44 mag up, girl fired...gun went over head, she tried holding on to it, squeezed...fired...boyfriend became her ex. I believe davmat787 was present when this happened and witnessed the cleanup IIRC. Thankfully she was not charged with any crime. There's a darn good reason I ALWAYS start people off on a .22. Unless they tell me they fire guns regularly or they own, they don't touch my guns until they fire a .22. I also only load 1 round at a time for them for each new gun they fire - 1 round in the mag, 1 round in the cylinder or whatever.

"It'll blow your head clean off" D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk

Like that?

 

[RampantAndroid]

"It'll blow your head clean off" D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk

Like that?

Yeah, except in this instance the first round fired, the gun went up over the woman's head, pointed behind her and then went off a second time hitting the person (her boyfriend) standing behind her in the head.

I've double fired my .44 pretty much - cock hammer, fire, cock hammer instinctively before I've got the gun back down from the recoil, and managed to pull the trigger again. Both shots landed on the target, oddly enough. Though this scenario is different than that video, or the death I'm referring to - both of those they somehow fired the gun a second time, DESPITE being in DA. I think actually the S&W .500 had some issue where it could double fire too easily?

 

[velillen]

Well theres talk of being safe and smart with guns.....watch out for squibs. Guy ive gone shooting with had a 9mm round squib on him the other day. Was factory ammo (Sellier Bellot 115gr) and not a reload. If its supposed to go boom and it doesnt....stop and check why, dont just rack the slide and keep going. Had he just racked and fired another round it could have easily led to loss of the gun and his hand

 

[RampantAndroid]

Well theres talk of being safe and smart with guns.....watch out for squibs. Guy ive gone shooting with had a 9mm round squib on him the other day. Was factory ammo (Sellier Bellot 115gr) and not a reload. If its supposed to go boom and it doesnt....stop and check why, dont just rack the slide and keep going. Had he just racked and fired another round it could have easily led to loss of the gun and his hand

Generally, the guidance I follow is, pull trigger...no bang? Count to 10. Eject round, check it. There ARE slow primers, and counting to 10 ensures you don't eject a round that then goes off on its own.

 

[Saint Nick]

Generally, the guidance I follow is, pull trigger...no bang? Count to 10. Eject round, check it. There ARE slow primers, and counting to 10 ensures you don't eject a round that then goes off on its own.

Does this happen often? What causes it?

 

[velillen]

Does this happen often? What causes it?

I wouldnt say it happens often. but it is still common enough to need to know about it. its generally caused by either a bad primer and it not igniting all the powder. Or not enough powder in the case to give the bullet enough force to exit. Or using the wrong size bullet/deformed bullets (though those seem to lead straight to catastrophic failures.) Youll hear it usually mentioned by reloaders as a mistake during the process but ive seen a handful of squibs from factory ammo. Luckily ive never had one (knock on wood)

Like rampart said just give it a few second then start the investigating. I generally drop the mag just to be safe then eject since i know ill be looking at the bore.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I wouldnt say it happens often. but it is still common enough to need to know about it. its generally caused by either a bad primer and it not igniting all the powder. Or not enough powder in the case to give the bullet enough force to exit. Or using the wrong size bullet/deformed bullets (though those seem to lead straight to catastrophic failures.) Youll hear it usually mentioned by reloaders as a mistake during the process but ive seen a handful of squibs from factory ammo. Luckily ive never had one (knock on wood)

Like rampart said just give it a few second then start the investigating. I generally drop the mag just to be safe then eject since i know ill be looking at the bore.

Exactly; it CAN happen in low quality ammo. Be sure you trust your ammo source. If reloading or buying from reloaders, check the components they are using. Make SURE they are using the right primers, powder, and check the measurements on their powder charges. Finally, make sure primers are seated correctly and not sticking up some, lest you find out what a slam-fire is. It's just something you need to be careful of.

Also, a round lodged in the barrel is serious - you NEED to clear it before continuing. A barrel obstruction will at the very least damage the gun, and more likely will damage your hands in the process of releasing all of the energy from the round going off.

 

[velillen]

Exactly; it CAN happen in low quality ammo.

It can hapen in any ammo. Seen it from a winchester who i consider fairly reputable. Same with ive seen federal and winchester rounds fail o fire at all (bad primers). So just cause you have "quality" ammo i wouldnt try it any more than from a tulsa.

All im saying i sjust cause you pay more for a name brand doesnt make you exempt from issues. Just hopefully itll be less likely. Same with if you buy a 2k gun you expect it to be better than a 300 dollar one