YAGT: OMG I love guns

[pontifex]

Actually looked it up. Long guns you buy from an FFL you can do as an out of state purchase. Handguns you have to have shipped back to an FFL at your state of residence. However, you can buy a handgun from a private individual without having to worry about the FFL bullshit. Except CA people.

Or you can do a lease of a residence in a different state to become a resident as well of that state. Which allows for you to apply for an ID of residency in that state as well.

bzzt!! wrong again....if you're both residents of the same state, some states allow that. PA does not. all handguns must go through FFL whether they are being bought from a dealer or private individual (except parent to child, grandparent to grandchild, spouse to spouse and vice versa on all those).

 

[Svnla]

Not sure if anyone already asked this or not but here it is.

Do you keep your magazines (handgun, rifle) fully loaded (for months or years) or not?

What say you, gun owners? Pros and Cons.

 

[MBentz]

Stuff I have in the ten day CA jail:

PTR 91 F
HK USP .45
Two stripped lowers

Now I'm on the hunt for a Swiss K11 or 31.

 

[Tiamat]

Not sure if anyone already asked this or not but here it is.

Do you keep your magazines (handgun, rifle) fully loaded (for months or years) or not?

What say you, gun owners? Pros and Cons.

Yes, loaded. The only time a spring wears is when it is cycled.

 

[boomhower]

Yes, loaded. The only time a spring wears is when it is cycled.

This

 

[DrPizza]

Would not worry to much on a 7mm08 they shoot quite flat to 300+ yards...:thumbsup: Damn nice caliber using a 7mm bullet with the 308 hull behind it...

Not sure if they make one but love to find an AR10 in 7mm08 just to add to the collection...

But just ordered another lower and 6.8 Rem SPC upper so next should be a 6.5 Grendel (wanting to collect everything in the AR15 category for shizts and giggles)...

No worries. Usually by this time, I've heard 50-75 shots in the distance. So far, maybe 6 shots? But staying put, hoping that Bambi, Yogi, or Wile E. comes along. But it doesn't look like I'll get the opportunity this morning.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Pacfanweb: If you go with a new/modern (or a modern 1911 that's used) 1911, don't feel like you have to pay a grand and a half to get a quality one. By all means, if you have the money go ahead with a real nice Kimber or whatever if you'd like, but don't ignore the Rock Island or Ruger SR1911 or Remington R1911 etc either if you have a budget.

Yeah, a quick search found plenty new ones in the 4-700 dollar range. Don't remember what brand and obviously I don't know the quality.

The WWII/Korea era ones do seem to be 12-1400 and more....although for the purpose of having one like the one my Grandfather gave us, one of them would obviously be the one to buy. And I'd like it to be able to be fired....not like I'd be running hundreds of rounds through it, though.

We'll see. I've had shoulder surgery this year, and knee surgery last week. Let me get mobile and start making some money the rest of the year, and I'll get the CCW next year and set about finding a 1911. Currently, I'm thinking that I would like an original military model, and maybe a newer one, too. Also might consider collecting a few others, like a Luger, although it looks like that'd be a $2k+ investment.

 

[Bartman39]

Just recently found/bought a nice clean Springfield Armory stainless 1911 A1 with a nice trigger & springs for $500 so they are out there just got to do some looking...

DrP... I think you need more time at the range it seems you just want to shoot something...
BTW here is some ammo for ya that is cheap but seems to be ok http://www.midwayusa.com/product/37...-grain-pointed-soft-point-boat-tail-box-of-20
Or here with free shipping... http://www.a1ammo.com/rifle/7mm-08-remington-ammo/
I have shot their 308 stuff and it seems descent...

 

[velillen]

Not sure if anyone already asked this or not but here it is.

Do you keep your magazines (handgun, rifle) fully loaded (for months or years) or not?

What say you, gun owners? Pros and Cons.

My XDs i keep two mags fully loaded and have since i got it. My HD gun (either my 226 or FNP-45) has two mags fully loaded as well.

Everything else stays unloaded since honestly i have no idea what i will want to shoot. My AR's share the same 10 round mag so could either be 55gr FMJ's, 77gr SMK's, 150gr 30cal, or 208gr gr 30cal depending on which gun i am shooting and suppressed vs unsuppressed. Same applies for my handguns. If i am shooting suppressed then i have one ammo. If i am shooting unsuppressed then another. Then i have hotter loads and lighter loads.

So those I use daily (carry and HD) stay fully loaded. Everything else stays unloaded till i know what type of ammo is going to be shot

 

[phucheneh]

Yes, loaded. The only time a spring wears is when it is cycled.

I hear this claim, and I think it is BS. No personal offense intended; I think my opinion on the topic is generally the dissenting one.

A spring held under compression wears. The free height and/or spring rate will decrease. In the case of mag springs, I think it's just not enough to worry about. Just as a guess, I's say the rate ('springyness') stays about the same, but the free-standing height decreases. The latter part doesn't really matter much since the uncompressed spring will remain longer than the space it normally occupies.

As a purely anecdotal thing: I play (well, used to play, haven't recently) a lot of airsoft, and carried piles of the 'medium capacity' magazines on me. They worked just like normal firearm box magazines, but with much longer, weaker springs. Using the mags never caused any appreciable issue. Leaving them loaded between games (commonly a month or more; once even during a whole 'off-season') totally boned them. The good mags would just fail to feed the last few BB's. The cheaper ones would just not want to work at all.

Obviously, airsoft != firearms, but I think the spring thing is relatable. The real steel stuff might be so much stronger that it never causes an issue...but I think saying that loaded mags never lose spring tension, and than loading/unloading is much harder on them, is a crock.

edit: I googled it out of curiosity, to see if anyone had ever actually scientifically tested this oft-debated subject. I've yet to find that, but I did see some random dude's explanation that seems to make sense to me:

"I'm an engineering major, and we've covered this stuff pretty extensively in many of my classes. Fatigue (from the strength of materials sense) is based on cyclic loading, and is a function of the amplitude of the stress, the mean stress, and the number of cycles. I haven't run the calculations (finals are finally over, and I think my brain would revolt if I broke out another textbook), but I'm pretty sure the number of cycles to failure for a 1911 magazine is pretty high.

The phenomena you guys are talking about is called creep, where a material slowly loses strength while elastically deformed. Elastic deformation is when a material is under enough stress to deform it, but when the stress is removed the material returns to it's original shape. Springs compressed within their limits are elastically deformed. Creep is mostly a function of temperature, and typically isn't an issue in environments below half the melting point of the stressed material.

So under the typical conditions found in a house, your magazines will be fine."

If Mr. 'Engineering Major' is correct (...I'm an engineering dropout), they are simply different kinds of stress that can both be called 'wear.'

 

[IEC]

I hear this claim, and I think it is BS. No personal offense intended; I think my opinion on the topic is generally the dissenting one.

A spring held under compression wears. The free height and/or spring rate will decrease. In the case of mag springs, I think it's just not enough to worry about. Just as a guess, I's say the rate ('springyness') stays about the same, but the free-standing height decreases. The latter part doesn't really matter much since the uncompressed spring will remain longer than the space it normally occupies.

As a purely anecdotal thing: I play (well, used to play, haven't recently) a lot of airsoft, and carried piles of the 'medium capacity' magazines on me. They worked just like normal firearm box magazines, but with much longer, weaker springs. Using the mags never caused any appreciable issue. Leaving them loaded between games (commonly a month or more; once even during a whole 'off-season') totally boned them. The good mags would just fail to feed the last few BB's. The cheaper ones would just not want to work at all.

Obviously, airsoft != firearms, but I think the spring thing is relatable. The real steel stuff might be so much stronger that it never causes an issue...but I think saying that loaded mags never lose spring tension, and than loading/unloading is much harder on them, is a crock.

Your airsoft mags used crappy materials for their springs and/or did not engineer them to withstand appropriate tension. Despite using "common sense" your answer is wrong in terms of physics.

If you've ever disassembled a magazine, you will realize the mag spring is anywhere from 1.5x-2.0x the length of the magazine body, maybe more. So even unloaded it is under constant tension. Yet it doesn't wear out from just sitting there.

Provided the spring is properly engineered, keeping the mag fully loaded will not cause appreciable fatigue to the spring (and no creep, since that doesn't happen with ferrous materials at room temperature). Keep in mind that downloading the magazine a few rounds will not help much, if at all, since it is a linear decrease in spring tension per unit displacement according to Hooke's law. It will however increase the probability that you are well within the safe range of tensions if your manufacturer was cutting corners.

Edit:

tl;dr
1. Loading/unloading (cycling) causes the most wear
2. Compression past some critical fatigue limit will cause wear or failure. This should be beyond max magazine capacity in a properly designed unit.
3. Creep under room temperature conditions should be practically non-existent, as it generally occurs at > 0.4x the melting point of the material

 

[phucheneh]

I think you're right except for the bit about 'even unloaded it is under constant tension.'

I don't disagree with that statement; but the implied meaning seems to be that compressing a spring a lot does not harm it any more than compressing a spring a little. A spring in an empty mag is not going to experience the same amount of stress as one in a fully loaded mag (i.e. compressed so much that the coils are touching).

Like I said, obviously airsoft and real guns are going to be different...but it's the application of the physics that is different. No physical principles are being changed. A weaker design made of weaker material simply vastly accelerates the same phenomena...IMO.

I think the best thing is to simply periodically check any mags that you intend to keep perma-loaded. Or do the rotation thing.

 

[Fenixgoon]

tl;dr
1. Loading/unloading (cycling) causes the most wear
2. Compression past some critical fatigue limit will cause wear or failure. This should be beyond max magazine capacity in a properly designed unit.
3. Creep under room temperature conditions should be practically non-existent, as it generally occurs at > 0.4x the melting point of the material

came here to pretty much say this.

a single static loading will not cause any issue with the spring. it's the cycling (fatigue) that eventually causes failure.

now, that being said, if the springs were corroded or somehow seized inside the magazine, that could also explain the failure to feeds, and is also indicative of poor design.

 

[velillen]

Replacement magazine springs (for the most part) are like 7 bucks each. Just buy an extra one or two and not worry about it.

 

[Merad]

Yeah, a quick search found plenty new ones in the 4-700 dollar range. Don't remember what brand and obviously I don't know the quality.

Rock Island Armory is supposed to make a pretty decent 1911 and I think they generally run in the $500 range.

Both Springfield and Remington have "military style" 1911s that should come in at around $600 IIRC.

Ruger's 1911 also prices in at around $600 and seems to be very well regarded.

Probably the "best" model you'll find in the price range you mentioned is the Springfield Range Officer. You might have to shop around to find one priced at $700, but it's an excellent gun. I've had one for about 18 months.

Personally if you want a shooter I'd go for one of the above. There's no point in paying for a WW2/Korea veteran gun unless you just really want it for sentimental purposes.

 

[rudeguy]

Rock Island Armory is supposed to make a pretty decent 1911 and I think they generally run in the $500 range.

Both Springfield and Remington have "military style" 1911s that should come in at around $600 IIRC.

Ruger's 1911 also prices in at around $600 and seems to be very well regarded.

Probably the "best" model you'll find in the price range you mentioned is the Springfield Range Officer. You might have to shop around to find one priced at $700, but it's an excellent gun. I've had one for about 18 months.

Personally if you want a shooter I'd go for one of the above. There's no point in paying for a WW2/Korea veteran gun unless you just really want it for sentimental purposes.

Anyone have a link to a Rock Island 1911?

The 226 has me liking the bigger framed guns now that I'm used to it. Thinking maybe a starter 1911 might be in my future.

 

[BladeVenom]

Anyone have a link to a Rock Island 1911?

https://us.armscor.com/products/

 

[rudeguy]

https://us.armscor.com/products/

hmmm


any thoughts on this one
http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Roc...cal_2011_5_8rd_G10_p/gun-rockisland-51485.htm

 

[phucheneh]

Has anyone recommended...not getting a 1911? It's a fine design and all...just not what I'd advise for a first and possible carry gun. There are just more modern designs that conceal better yet have a lot more firepower. Even if you believe in the superior "stopping power" of .45, 15-17 rounds of 9mm can still do a lot more than 7 of .45.

 

[rudeguy]

Has anyone recommended...not getting a 1911? It's a fine design and all...just not what I'd advise for a first and possible carry gun. There are just more modern designs that conceal better yet have a lot more firepower. Even if you believe in the superior "stopping power" of .45, 15-17 rounds of 9mm can still do a lot more than 7 of .45.

who are you talking to?

 

[Fenixgoon]

so i went to a group shoot with a bunch of people yesterday (big outdoor range) and holy crap i want to get more guns now

front runners are a .22 pistol for plinking, .22 rifle for long range plinking, 12ga shotgun, and some type of scary black rifle (does .223 vs 5.56 matter?)

also i have no idea what cost vs. quality are like for these things. open to suggestions!

add 270/308/30-06 to that. it seems like there are a lot of nice bolt action rifles for not all that much (like $300), whereas a decent AR is like $800+

both the mossberg ATR and 4x4 rifles seem to have pretty good reviews. now i have to check for CA compliance D:

 

[phucheneh]

who are you talking to?

Pacfan, I guess. Had to scroll back through the legal-talk and check, heh.

Re-reading, I guess he really just wants a 1911 to just have it. Maybe shoot recreationally every once in while. I just remembered 'not experienced with handguns' and 'CCW' and wondered why everyone was going with the idea of a 1911.

I mean (IMO) if it's a newer 1911, it's just a gun. I can understand wanting an older model for more 'collector' purposes; but a new one just becomes a firearm with a purpose, and if there is any intent to have it for more than recreational target shooting,a 1911's not a great first gun. I'd move on a generation and go with at least a Hi-Power or a derivative thereof.

You don't have to go all-polymer striker fire or something. For the same money as a budget 1911 (or less), there are plenty of similarly-functioning (notably, an external safety and a decent single-action trigger) metal-framed double-stack 9's.

Wanted to throw that out there, is all.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Yes, loaded. The only time a spring wears is when it is cycled.

That's wrong. Leave a spring compressed, and it will absolutely get weaker.

I can't believe anyone would even question it. Well known fact.

Now whether it will lose enough to matter is a different issue, but they absolutely get weaker if you leave them compressed.

My guess is, they're a little stronger than necessary to begin with, so it won't matter.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Pacfan, I guess. Had to scroll back through the legal-talk and check, heh.

Re-reading, I guess he really just wants a 1911 to just have it. Maybe shoot recreationally every once in while. I just remembered 'not experienced with handguns' and 'CCW' and wondered why everyone was going with the idea of a 1911.

I mean (IMO) if it's a newer 1911, it's just a gun. I can understand wanting an older model for more 'collector' purposes; but a new one just becomes a firearm with a purpose, and if there is any intent to have it for more than recreational target shooting,a 1911's not a great first gun. I'd move on a generation and go with at least a Hi-Power or a derivative thereof.

You don't have to go all-polymer striker fire or something. For the same money as a budget 1911 (or less), there are plenty of similarly-functioning (notably, an external safety and a decent single-action trigger) metal-framed double-stack 9's.

Wanted to throw that out there, is all.

Thanks, and you pretty much nailed my intentions. The CCW is mainly so I don't have to get a permit every time I want a pistol, and so I can keep a gun in the car, forgot to mention that. Gotta have a CCW if you want it concealed anywhere, not just on your person.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Has anyone recommended...not getting a 1911? It's a fine design and all...just not what I'd advise for a first and possible carry gun. There are just more modern designs that conceal better yet have a lot more firepower. Even if you believe in the superior "stopping power" of .45, 15-17 rounds of 9mm can still do a lot more than 7 of .45.

What in the world would I need 15 rounds of anything for?

I can't conceive of a situation in which I'd need that many rounds to protect myself or someone else. If I get to the point to where I need to shoot a gun at someone, one or two rounds is all it's going to take, one way or another.