YAGT: OMG I love guns

[corwin]

I really can't tell the difference between a $400 EOTech and a $50 generic red dot. I cannot figure out what makes them so expensive, other than assumably being more durable...but you're not going into combat.

Why is there no middle ground between cheapo stuff and 'costs as much as some people's entire rifle' stuff?

Check out primary arms, they're own brand is reasonable and well made

 

[Nebor]

I really can't tell the difference between a $400 EOTech and a $50 generic red dot. I cannot figure out what makes them so expensive, other than assumably being more durable...but you're not going into combat.

Why is there no middle ground between cheapo stuff and 'costs as much as some people's entire rifle' stuff?

Eotechs, Aimpoints and Trijicon ACOGs are well documented as having survived gunshots, multiple IED blasts, etc. I have a TA33G-H-RM that got beat up pretty badly in combat, but I sent it in to Trijicon when I got home and they made it look like new for free.

My go-to AR (& PS90) have Eotechs, but if I had to pick one optic to use forever, it'd be an ACOG w/ RMR. I'm not much of an aimpoint fan, having used the M68 in combat before. I much prefer the Eotech reticle.

 

[IEC]

I really can't tell the difference between a $400 EOTech and a $50 generic red dot. I cannot figure out what makes them so expensive, other than assumably being more durable...but you're not going into combat.

Why is there no middle ground between cheapo stuff and 'costs as much as some people's entire rifle' stuff?

For plinking anything that holds zero works.

I've owned and used the following electronic sights (except the ELCAN and ACOG, I demo'd those for a day):
ELCAN Specter 1x-4x
Trijicon ACOG (various flavors, yeah I know this isn't electronic but it's illuminated)
Aimpoint PRO
EOTech XPS 2-0
Sightron 30mm Multi-Reticle
Bushnell TRS-25
Primary Arms Micro Dot
Primary Arms 30mm Red Dot

ELCAN Specter ($$$$) is very nice with a throw lever to switch zoom. Made for combat use and with the mag capability is good close up as well as max range of an AR15. I was impressed with it, but I've heard many others say it doesn't stand up to hard combat use as well as an Aimpoint or ACOG. Since I don't have personal long term experience with it it's hard to say. Made in Canada.

Trijicon ACOG ($$$-$$$$). Beautiful optics across their line, but pricey. That's because they're built for combat and can take a lot of abuse (I've seen some that looked like they should be broken, but they still worked fine... and looked fine after some rattle can ). As with all high ticket items make sure you get to look through a couple before you make the decision to buy. Great for longer range AR use with the ballistic reticles. Made in USA.

Aimpoint PRO ($$$) is a very nice, waterproof/shockproof red dot. Again, built like a tank for combat use and the quick release thumbscrew is good and mostly maintains zero when removed. Extremely long battery life. Like 2 years left ON and never turned off. Made in Sweden.

EOTech XPS ($$$) is the best (IMO) EOTech due to transverse mounting of the battery. I've heard from too many hard users of ARs that their EOTech 512s would blink on and off with recoil after a while due to the recoil wearing out the battery compartment spring. With it mounted sideways in the XPS series that's not a problem. EOTech is the best for accuracy as it has a "1 moa" (actually, < 0.65 moa) center dot. Especially if you have a flip to side magnifier behind it (but then that setup is as heavy as a scope...). Battery life significantly worse than Aimpoint (500-600 hours?). Made in USA.

Sightron S33 multi-reticle ($$$). Comes with rings which are a bit fragile but have worked for me. I use this on my shotgun (Rem 887 Tactical) and it has handled the abuse of 12 gauge for hundreds of rounds without any shift in zero. Battery life is nowhere near the Aimpoint, but since it uses cheap batteries not a big deal. Multiple reticles with no zero shift changing between the four reticles. Even has one with a 1 moa center dot - I choose to use a dot within a circle for rapid target acquisition and have gone trap shooting with it. Very bright even on low brightness - the brightest red dot I've seen. Made in Japan.

Bushnell TRS-25 ($$). Decent 3 moa red dot. Can take a little bit of abuse, is lightweight, and gets the job done. This or the Primary Arms are decent solutions for plinking at the range within 100m. At this price point you may get the occasional lemon and don't expect the dot to be perfectly round - they need to cut corners to make it cheap, after all. Also, battery life around 1000 hours, much less than an Aimpoint. Made in China.

Primary Arms ($$) - pick your favorite design. They're all about the same in terms of quality, and roughly comparable to the Bushnell TRS-25. Battery life < 1000 hours. Made in China. But Marsh from Primary Arms will take care of you if you have any issues with your red dot.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about any of the above. My opinion is that for the average infrequent shooter it won't make much of a difference what you buy as long as it maintains zero. Those who care about long range accuracy will generally use scopes anyways, so red dots are pretty much out of the picture for > 300m shooting. Those who care about close range work or duty use will generally prefer the Aimpoint due to zero mag + reliability (never turn it off, 2 years+ battery life). Or the EOTech due to quick target acquisition and its superior reticle.

 

[clamum]

Finally got all the stuff I need to reload 30-06. But, I have another reloading question regarding case trimming.

How do you reloaders accomplish the case trimming process? Do you use something like a Lee Case Length Guide and the corresponding cutter, or something like the Lyman Universal Trimmer I have, or a power drill or anything else?

I've used the Lyman case trimmer I have, just once when I was seeing how well it works, but after going to Cabela's yesterday and seeing the Lee case gauges, those seem to be a quicker and more accurate way of doing the case trimming. What do you guys think?

As far as the "trim to length", I'm guessing that's the max length, and it's ok if you trim a bit below that? For example, the 30-06 trim to length is 2.484" according to my Lyman book. If I trim it a bit too much, to say 2.464", is that ok?

Thanks for any comments/suggestions. Looking forward to finally making some rounds!

 

[dabuddha]

So a couple of issues from my last range trip yesterday

With my shield 9, I kept getting a FTF with the first round when I'd insert the magazine. It didn't happen every time but about 60%. I didn't pay attention at the time so I don't know if it was just one magazine or all three. Is there anything I should pay attention to when I clean my gun today and/or any trouble shooting tips? I also noticed the same thing with my 1911 but I noticed it happening when I was using PMC bronze ammo and not when I was using the Winchester ammo. Also for both, I'd pull back on the slide and then let it go. Wasn't letting it slide forward gently

The other issue is I'm lining up my sights on the shield but I'm consistently hitting the target down and to the left. I've got good precision but I'm just not hiring dead center. When I tried aiming up and to the right slightly, I started hitting dead center ( though not consistently since I'm purposely aiming up and to the right). And trouble shooting tips there?

 

[OCGuy]

Down and to the left is pulling the weapon down with a jerky squeeze. When I do this it is due to accidentally putting my finger too far through instead of using the pad.

Also when firing my Springfield, it is important to hold the trigger after firing, then slowly let it out until the first click, then squeeze again. Because of the hand-safety, you don't want the safety mechanism on the trigger to re-engage every shot by releasing it all the way.

 

[velillen]

Finally got all the stuff I need to reload 30-06. But, I have another reloading question regarding case trimming.

How do you reloaders accomplish the case trimming process? Do you use something like a Lee Case Length Guide and the corresponding cutter, or something like the Lyman Universal Trimmer I have, or a power drill or anything else?

I've used the Lyman case trimmer I have, just once when I was seeing how well it works, but after going to Cabela's yesterday and seeing the Lee case gauges, those seem to be a quicker and more accurate way of doing the case trimming. What do you guys think?

As far as the "trim to length", I'm guessing that's the max length, and it's ok if you trim a bit below that? For example, the 30-06 trim to length is 2.484" according to my Lyman book. If I trim it a bit too much, to say 2.464", is that ok?

Thanks for any comments/suggestions. Looking forward to finally making some rounds!

For 30-06 i use a RCBS Trimmer that is similar to the lyman you have. But fo rme 30-06 is low volume so i dont need speed. For 300BLK and 223 i have WFT's for them and it is much quick to trim them.

For 30-06 the MAX case length is 2.494" Basically once you go over that number you will want to trim. Now you can get by being just a hair over but youll still need to trim the next time. And by a little im talking 2.495 or 2.496 type over. not 2.500 You are correct that 2.484 is the trim to length. And again if you are a bit under that you are still going to be ok. On the under side you have a bit more play i have found. You could get away with down to 2.400 more than likely (i know with 300BLK ive been off by that much and it shot just fine).

Even though there is a bit of play you really want to aim for the targets. If its over 2.494 trim it. When trimming go slow and dial into the 2.484 and just know if you take a hair or two off its not the end of the world but adjust so the majority are at the correct. Set the odd sized ones to the side and load them separately and shoot them as fun plinking rounds to get them to the correct size for the next time

 

[clamum]

For 30-06 i use a RCBS Trimmer that is similar to the lyman you have. But fo rme 30-06 is low volume so i dont need speed. For 300BLK and 223 i have WFT's for them and it is much quick to trim them.

For 30-06 the MAX case length is 2.494" Basically once you go over that number you will want to trim. Now you can get by being just a hair over but youll still need to trim the next time. And by a little im talking 2.495 or 2.496 type over. not 2.500 You are correct that 2.484 is the trim to length. And again if you are a bit under that you are still going to be ok. On the under side you have a bit more play i have found. You could get away with down to 2.400 more than likely (i know with 300BLK ive been off by that much and it shot just fine).

Even though there is a bit of play you really want to aim for the targets. If its over 2.494 trim it. When trimming go slow and dial into the 2.484 and just know if you take a hair or two off its not the end of the world but adjust so the majority are at the correct. Set the odd sized ones to the side and load them separately and shoot them as fun plinking rounds to get them to the correct size for the next time

Ah, I see. That makes sense. I figured it was ok to be a little bit below the trim length but I wasn't sure. I did end up trimming a bunch of cases last night and the Lyman trimmer I have worked a bit better than I thought it would. It's adjusted right, as far as I can tell, but it also depends on how much force I use to trim.

Thanks for the help!

 

[NutBucket]

I know this is a bit P&N but I figured you all would find some amusement from a CA politician describing the dangers of a "ghost" gun....

http://youtu.be/iJmFEv6BHM0

 

[Phanuel]

I'm such a bitch, I think I need the safety on my 1911 modified as the furthest part forward that is bent down just stabs me right in the soft meat behind my thumbnail. The problems of being tall and having long fingers.

 

[Merad]

Finally got all the stuff I need to reload 30-06. But, I have another reloading question regarding case trimming.

How do you reloaders accomplish the case trimming process? Do you use something like a Lee Case Length Guide and the corresponding cutter, or something like the Lyman Universal Trimmer I have, or a power drill or anything else?

I've used the Lyman case trimmer I have, just once when I was seeing how well it works, but after going to Cabela's yesterday and seeing the Lee case gauges, those seem to be a quicker and more accurate way of doing the case trimming. What do you guys think?

As far as the "trim to length", I'm guessing that's the max length, and it's ok if you trim a bit below that? For example, the 30-06 trim to length is 2.484" according to my Lyman book. If I trim it a bit too much, to say 2.464", is that ok?

Thanks for any comments/suggestions. Looking forward to finally making some rounds!

I don't know about .30-06 but for .223 the max length is 1.76" and trim to is 1.75". If I'm processing rifle brass my workflow is:

• Tumble
• Sort out damaged/defective/whatever cases
• Resize
• Swage (if it's brass that's new to me)
• Sort out the brass that needs to be trimmed (I just set my calipers to 1.76" and anything that doesn't slip in easily gets trimmed)
• Trim and deburr

I use the Lee cutter setup, which is ok for low-medium volumes of brass, but you definitely want to use it with a drill and I also recommend getting the ball grip cutter. I'm sure I'll switch to another trim setup if/when I start doing more rifle brass, but I haven't really researched options yet.

 

[NutBucket]

I'm such a bitch, I think I need the safety on my 1911 modified as the furthest part forward that is bent down just stabs me right in the soft meat behind my thumbnail. The problems of being tall and having long fingers.

Switch to wheel guns. Problem solved.

 

[Phanuel]

No, I want to experience auto loader unreliability!

 

[rudeguy]

No, I want to experience auto loader unreliability!

Chop off your thumb. Problem solved

 

[clamum]

I see a lot of references to "swage" or "swaging" when talking about reloading. As I understand it, "swaging" is a process of forming something by forcing it through a die or similar forming object. For example, swaging bullets as opposed to casting them.

Merad, what do you mean by "swage" in regards to brass (since you already listed resize)? Probably a dumb question but I'm at work and without my ABC's of Reloading book handy.

 

[velillen]

I see a lot of references to "swage" or "swaging" when talking about reloading. As I understand it, "swaging" is a process of forming something by forcing it through a die or similar forming object. For example, swaging bullets as opposed to casting them.

Merad, what do you mean by "swage" in regards to brass (since you already listed resize)? Probably a dumb question but I'm at work and without my ABC's of Reloading book handy.

He is talking about crimped primer pockets. Military surplus ammo and brass, and also some commercial, has primer pockets that crimp the primer in. So when you resize and deprime the primer comes out but the crimp remains which prevents a new primer from being able to go in.

There's two methods to fix this. Cutting and swagging. Cutting basically just cuts out the excess material to open the pocket up. Swagging you usually run a ram of sorts into the pocket to expand it. Both methods work and its up to the user to pick which route to go. For swagging the Dillon superswage 600 is one of the best. Cheaper wise you usually get the cutter type crimp removers


Least that's what I'm assuming he meant by swagging. Just be careful to not remove to much material. You want the primer to be tight in the pocket. Primer pockets open up each firing a tiny bit and having. Loose primer isn't good

 

[HumblePie]

I really can't tell the difference between a $400 EOTech and a $50 generic red dot. I cannot figure out what makes them so expensive, other than assumably being more durable...but you're not going into combat.

Why is there no middle ground between cheapo stuff and 'costs as much as some people's entire rifle' stuff?

Umm, there are some mid levels if you are looking for that. Usually aimpoint/eotech stuff just has battle tested durability to justify their cost. That's not saying other stuff isn't just as durable, but that they haven't been put to the same tests usually either. Mainly because the other products are not looking to compete for a military contract.

Then top it off with plenty of "bad" products out there which aren't all that good and most people would rather stick with the tried and true, regardless of the cost, than to investigate further.

This was a bit of an argument I got into on another forum that I got banned from. For having the audacity to mention that not everyone needs an eotech/aimpoint even if they can afford one. Especially if you aren't planning to have your gun ran over by a tank.

That is one thing Eotech/aimpoint tried to do with their hardware. Make them idiot proof for the front line soldiers that may not properly take care of their equipment, and expect them to function in extreme situations. For a home user, how often are you planning to drive over your gun, drop it in a tar pit after wards, and then drag it through a sand dune before having to fire another 1000 rounds after not having cleaned a thing for the previous 5000 rounds? Probably not often.

Don't get me wrong, they are the best of the best considering track record. You can't go wrong with an Eotech or Aimpoint, but does a home user really "need" such a sight even for proper reliable home defense? Fuck no.

 

[Merad]

He is talking about crimped primer pockets. Military surplus ammo and brass, and also some commercial, has primer pockets that crimp the primer in. So when you resize and deprime the primer comes out but the crimp remains which prevents a new primer from being able to go in.

There's two methods to fix this. Cutting and swagging. Cutting basically just cuts out the excess material to open the pocket up. Swagging you usually run a ram of sorts into the pocket to expand it. Both methods work and its up to the user to pick which route to go. For swagging the Dillon superswage 600 is one of the best. Cheaper wise you usually get the cutter type crimp removers


Least that's what I'm assuming he meant by swagging. Just be careful to not remove to much material. You want the primer to be tight in the pocket. Primer pockets open up each firing a tiny bit and having. Loose primer isn't good

Yep. I started off reaming (cutting) my .223 but it was very unreliable in my experience and very tedious to do. Still had quite a few problems getting primers to seat even after reaming the brass. I have the RCBS Swaging Die set which ok once you get used to them, but like you said the Dillon setup is king (but $$$).

 

[Merad]

Btw, has anyone even done any stock finishing/refinishing? How did you deal with any metal bits still attached, just mask them off with painters tape? I need to finish my Garand stock but everything I've read says the metal end caps on the foregrip pieces aren't meant to be removed once they're attached to the wood. I dunno why the CMP shipped an unfinished stock with the metal bits already attached. :\

 

[IEC]

Btw, has anyone even done any stock finishing/refinishing? How did you deal with any metal bits still attached, just mask them off with painters tape? I need to finish my Garand stock but everything I've read says the metal end caps on the foregrip pieces aren't meant to be removed once they're attached to the wood. I dunno why the CMP shipped an unfinished stock with the metal bits already attached. :\

I've used poster putty and painter's tape IIRC. Then refinished with boiled linseed oil (what oil you use depends on what you are restoring/your preferences)

 

[clamum]

I refinished my Mosin 91/30 stock but I was able to take off all metal parts (just unscrewed them).

Used wood stripper (forget the brand, nothing special though) and then sandpaper and then 0000 steel wool to get the crap off the stock. I then used Minwax Golden Oak stain and finally Minwax Wipe-On Poly satin for the finish. It turned out really well.

 

[irishScott]

I'm such a bitch, I think I need the safety on my 1911 modified as the furthest part forward that is bent down just stabs me right in the soft meat behind my thumbnail. The problems of being tall and having long fingers.

Number of good options here: http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/safety-parts/safeties/index.htm?avs|Make_3=1911

Or just take a dremel to the offending edge.

 

[Phanuel]

Yeah, the simple solution is to just grind the stabby bits off. I'm just a little worried about refinishing it black (or my lack of skills).

 

[69Mach1]

I had the lee case length trim system first, and it works, but Lymans EZ trim system works better in my opinion. If you are using a cordless drill the lyman system is much quicker and more secure for me. When I was using the Lee system to do 30-30s or 303 british the cases kept coming out of the holder unless I used pliers to thighten it down. No problem with the Lyman EZ trim setup.

 

[marvdmartian]

where is the gun porn

Yeah, I know....sorry! Had to finish it up first! :thumbsup:

PSA upper (that I've linked to at least once in this thread), PSA blemished lower, Magpul furniture and ASAP sling device (with MS3 sling to go on it, not pictured), with one of their "enhanced" trigger guards on as well.

The LPK is a Rock River kit (without trigger), and I added one of their 2-stage "National Match" triggers to it.

The EO Tech sight is currently got the camo pattern on it (Realtree, I believe), but I'm going to get another cover and battery compartment, and paint those with Flat Dark Earth paint, to match the Magpul furniture on it. Since the upper came with the front sight, I mounted an optional mil-spec BUIS behind the EO Tech.

It'll be going to the range this Friday, to get broken in.