YAGT Reco me a pistol

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MattCo

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2001
2,198
2
81
Buy a Glock 32C in .357sig, and a barrel from the 23C in .40 = 2 guns in one.
 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
17,571
8
0
I shot a USP Compact (.40) not too long ago at the range. Nice gun, I liked most everything about it.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Buy a Glock 32C in .357sig, and a barrel from the 23C in .40 = 2 guns in one.

The 357 sig has too much pass through / excessive penetration. Meaning, when you shoot someone with a 357 sig, there is a good chance the bullet will pass through the body and strike someone on the other side.

When the 357 sig came out, a lot of law enforcement officers picked it up as their primary carry pistol. But as time went on and field reports started coming in, a lot of police officers have stopped using the 357 sig.

My brother is a deputy sheriff. When the 357 sig came out he stopped using his 40 and switched over. He has since stopped using the 357 sig and went back to the 40. And the excessive pass through is the reason why he stopped using it. I think he even sold his 357 sig.

Just do a google search for 357 sig pass through and see what you get.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
46
91
When the 40 came out, I was one of those people that jumped on the bandwagon and bought one. The pistol I bought was a Ruger P91 DC (DeCocker). To be perfectly honest, from the very first time I shot the 40 I did not like it. And I do not consider myself a "first timer". My buddies and I used to go to the range and shoot over 1,000 9mm, several hundred 45acp, and lots of 357 magnum in a single day.

When my wife and I divorced she kept the Ruger P91. That was 10 years ago and I have never bothered to replace it.

In the past 10 years I have shot several different types of pistols chambered in 40, and I have yet to find one I like.

The recoil of the 40 is too harsh for my taste. When I fire off a round, I find myself dreading the recoil and the "snap". 9mm and 45acp fit my taste just fine.




+1 on that

The 9mm and 45acp have been battle proven for what,,, 75 years before the 40 was developed? Both have served in 2 world wars and conflicts all over the world. Both have been shown to be very effective.

It appears to me that Smith & Wesson developed the 40 to get their name into the ammunition market.

S&W has other ammunition with their name on it...

.32 S&W
.38 S&W
500 S&W
 

Cstefan

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2005
1,510
0
71
Sig p229 .40 is my preference. Have had a Glock 23 and did not like it nearly as much in terms of performance.
 

Pegun

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2004
1,334
0
71
I own both a Walther P22 and PPS (.32 caliber) and they both have cause me no problems. I have carried the .22 as my concealed weapon before, and it is easily concealable with the right holster and the right clothes. While people say it won't stop someone this guy seems to think otherwise. My next one will probably be an XD in .40 or 9mm because I plan on getting a Beretta CX4 Storm in one of those categories to round out my collection.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
S&W has other ammunition with their name on it...

.32 S&W
.38 S&W
500 S&W

32 S&W long - released 1896
38 S&W - released 1877
45 S&W Schofield - released 1875
38 special - does not carry the S&W name, but was introduced by S&W in 1902
357 magnum - does not carry the S&W name, but was introduced by S&W in 1935
40 S&W - released 1990
460 S&W Magnum - released 2005
500 S&W magnum - released 2004 at the Shot Show

* Source Hornady reloading manual 7th edition. I did not see the 38S&W listed in the manual, had to look that one up in wikipedia to get the date. When I was reloading, cartridge history was a favorite read of mine.

I think its kinda funny that the 40S&W was developed and released right after the extensive FBI and military test of the 9mm in mid-to-late 1980s. To me, it was S&W attempting to fill a niche that did not exist. We already had more handgun calibers when people could use, but for some reason S&W released yet another one.

~~~ EDIT ~~~

Years ago if you did not like being in crowds, you were considered shy.

Today, if social situations bother you, you might have some kind of social anxiety disorder - and guess what, the drug companies have something to fix you up.

The same thing applies to the 40S&W and the 357 sig.

Dont like the 9mm? Dont like the 45acp, dont like the 41 action express, dont like the 10mm, dont like the 41 magnum, dont like the 357 magnum,,,,,, guess what we have something to fix you up. The 40S&W and 357sig fills the gap between 9mm and 45acp, its the both of both worlds,,,, blah, blah,,, and more blah.

~~~~~~~

Sorry to go off on a tanget

Anyway, I looked at several pistols for concealed carry and there were 3 main requirements

9mm or 45acp
manual safety
all controls must be operated without having to reposition my hand on the grip

I really liked the Walther deign, but the gun shop did not have one in 9mm or 45acp.

Beretta grip was too wide and my thumb could not easily reach the safety

So I settled on the Taurus 709.

 
Last edited:
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
81
I own both a Walther P22 and PPS (.32 caliber) and they both have cause me no problems. I have carried the .22 as my concealed weapon before, and it is easily concealable with the right holster and the right clothes. While people say it won't stop someone this guy seems to think otherwise. My next one will probably be an XD in .40 or 9mm because I plan on getting a Beretta CX4 Storm in one of those categories to round out my collection.

He's still alive. Point proven.
The problem here is he wasn't in an already hightened state. If you have to shoot someone to protect yourself, the agressor is going to already have adrenaline pumping and have that "advantage". The human body can endure a lot of damage before being "stopped".
A 22 can kill, but not as effectivly as a larger round. When 9mm weapons can be had that aren't any larger than some .22's, I'd take the 9mm any day of the week.
You have to choose a round that has a minimum of 12" of penetration. What happens if you have to shoot some guy the size of Arnold Schwarezenneger when he was at his biggest? That's a lot of muscle mass. A .22 will not cut it then.
Carry what you feel comfortable with, but most professionals in the security/law enforcement professsion will not recommend a .22
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
I wouldn't trust a Taurus semi-auto to protect myself.
I've broken 2 of them in stores just handling them. I find that people that recommend a Taurus semiauto do so purely for a cost reason.
If cost is a concern, go with a Ruger P series or find a used Glock.

The first and second gen Taurus Millenniums had issues, which is why they quickly disappeared. The new models are rock solid. I've owned mine for about 6 or 7 years now, put thousands of rounds through it, and still absolutely solid.

I recommend it because out of the dozens of weapons I've handled, fired, and carried (for concealed) nothing even comes close to matching it. However I'm fairly picky about my sidearms so *shrug*.

Glocks have NOTHING in common with a Taurus Millennium, so it's ridiculous to suggest that it's an equivalent in anything but price (used). The Ruger is a bit closer in characteristics, though I'm still not a big fan of the feel.
 
Last edited:
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
I put a 1000 rounds or so through my PT111 Millenium Pro. It wont shoot hyrdashock or feed some of the other extremely ramped JHP's, but it feed everything else just fine. I would guess a little work on the feed ramp would fix that though.


I alternate gold dot and hydras in my PT140, never an issue. Also put through quite a bit of hot home loads, again without incident.

I did experience a LOT of issues with hotter loads in my PT99 however, so it might just be certain models.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
81
The first and second gen Taurus Millenniums had issues, which is why they quickly disappeared. The new models are rock solid. I've owned mine for about 6 or 7 years now, put thousands of rounds through it, and still absolutely solid.

I recommend it because out of the dozens of weapons I've handled, fired, and carried (for concealed) nothing even comes close to matching it. However I'm fairly picky about my sidearms so *shrug*.

Glocks have NOTHING in common with a Taurus Millennium, so it's ridiculous to suggest that it's an equivalent in anything but price (used). The Ruger is a bit closer in characteristics, though I'm still not a big fan of the feel.

Man if Taurus set the bar for your choice in handguns, I'd hate to see what other guns you carried.
I have a Taurus snub nose and it's is ok. My Uncle has a Beretta 92 clone and it shoots ok, but something about it just doesn't feel right. I've shot it several times and never had a problem, but it just doesn't feel like there is any quality.
I've got a friend that owns one of the largest gun shops in the DFW area and they stopped carrying Taurus because to many of them where breaking and the people were coming to the shop to get some resolution because Taurus wouldn't pay to have the firearm shipped back, even though it doesn't cost Taurus much at all, where as a non FFL is going to pay $50+ to send it back.
I've locked up a Taurus 1911 just by manipulating the safety lever. No one in the store could fix it. The other was a Beretta 96 clone that the safety lever snapped and fell out of the frame.
One of my friends did the same thing to one of the Taurus 1911's and broke the safety and it fell out of the gun.
Taurus uses a LOT of cheap MIM parts and those are typically the failure point.
I've learned over the years that higher end handguns are worth the extra money.
How much is your life worth?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
When you drive a car it pretty common to have an air bag and wear your seat belt. Because studies show that 2 layers of security are better then 1. Same thing goes with a glock. There is no second layer of security.

No, they dont show that at all. Since more safety features have been implemented accidents have gone up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltzman_effect

Also, a manual safety does NOT make a gun safe. Its the person that makes the gun safe, or dangerous. You would do better to take positive control of the weapon and not freely place your life in the hands of an inanimate object.
I dunno who told you that safeties make a gun safe but they had no clue what they were talking about. And I get real scared when people try to push incorrect theories as fact.

Just for fun:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18775_5-popular-safety-measures-that-dont-make-you-any-safer.html
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Man if Taurus set the bar for your choice in handguns, I'd hate to see what other guns you carried.
I have a Taurus snub nose and it's is ok. My Uncle has a Beretta 92 clone and it shoots ok, but something about it just doesn't feel right. I've shot it several times and never had a problem, but it just doesn't feel like there is any quality.
I've got a friend that owns one of the largest gun shops in the DFW area and they stopped carrying Taurus because to many of them where breaking and the people were coming to the shop to get some resolution because Taurus wouldn't pay to have the firearm shipped back, even though it doesn't cost Taurus much at all, where as a non FFL is going to pay $50+ to send it back.
I've locked up a Taurus 1911 just by manipulating the safety lever. No one in the store could fix it. The other was a Beretta 96 clone that the safety lever snapped and fell out of the frame.
One of my friends did the same thing to one of the Taurus 1911's and broke the safety and it fell out of the gun.
Taurus uses a LOT of cheap MIM parts and those are typically the failure point.
I've learned over the years that higher end handguns are worth the extra money.
How much is your life worth?

I'm sorry you and yours have had such bad luck...mine differs.

I will counter your closing with, is it better to have some hope you can afford, than hold out for better hope at a price you may never be able to meet?

Not everyone has $1000 laying around for a pistol purchase. Even if they did, cost doesn't mean it's going to be the right gun for them. Small frame Glocks are more expensive than my carry weapon, but they SUCK for me to carry because the weapons are wrong for my hands and frame. You HAVE to carry what you're comfortable with.
 

Electric Amish

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
23,578
1
0
Ruger just released an LC9 for around $380. It's compact carry 9mm and supposed to be sweet.

https://beta.impactguns.com/736676032008-ruger-lc9-9-mm-blued-finish.aspx

I carry a Browning BDA .380 (similar to a Beretta 84).

I love every pistol I own and would buy every one again:

Springfield Compact Operator 1911 .45
Kimber Tactical II 1911 .45
Smith & Wesson 1911 .45
FNP-45 .45
Springfield XDM 9mm
Ruger SR9 9mm
FN Five-Seven 5.7x28mm
 
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Electric Amish

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
23,578
1
0
I own both a Walther P22 and PPS (.32 caliber) and they both have cause me no problems. I have carried the .22 as my concealed weapon before, and it is easily concealable with the right holster and the right clothes. While people say it won't stop someone this guy seems to think otherwise. My next one will probably be an XD in .40 or 9mm because I plan on getting a Beretta CX4 Storm in one of those categories to round out my collection.

I have a CX4 Storm Carbine in 9mm. Very fun little gun.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
para ord makes my favorite compact I have shot the warthog, but I really want a P99 in 9m.
 

Electric Amish

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
23,578
1
0
How small? It's possible to carry a full frame 1911, but not the most comfortable unless you're a bigger guy (then it's likely not too bad).

FWIW, I go between a Glock 36 and a Ruger LCP. Glock 19/26 will have cheaper ammo (9mm). I have yet to shoot one, but I have also heard really good things about the Springfield XD series.

My next gun will probably be a suppressed Walther P22, but that's just because it's awesome and cheap to shoot.

DO NOT GET A WALTHER P22. I had one and it is a piece of SHIT. I couldn't hit anything with it. I was lucky to get 10 rounds in a silhouette target at 10-15 feet. My Browning Buckmark 22 I can put 10 rounds within 2-inches at the same distance.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
\
Glocks have NOTHING in common with a Taurus Millennium, so it's ridiculous to suggest that it's an equivalent in anything but price (used). The Ruger is a bit closer in characteristics, though I'm still not a big fan of the feel.

this is true.

however, if you havent, I highly suggest checking out the 4th gen's

they are definately a step ahead. and I *like* my glock. but I would love a 4th gen

and a beretta 92, and a sig p226 or 9

and some others

HK P7's are nice too

I'm not exactly......prejudiced against most guns, is kinda what I am trying to point out
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
this is true.

however, if you havent, I highly suggest checking out the 4th gen's

they are definately a step ahead. and I *like* my glock. but I would love a 4th gen

and a beretta 92, and a sig p226 or 9

and some others

HK P7's are nice too

I'm not exactly......prejudiced against most guns, is kinda what I am trying to point out

For me it's a feel thing...In a concealed weapon I don't like square grips, can't handle larger grips, hate floating pinky, dislike trigger safeties, etc. I have no issue with full size Glocks for duty carry, just not right for some people for off-duty use.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
For me it's a feel thing...In a concealed weapon I don't like square grips, can't handle larger grips, hate floating pinky, dislike trigger safeties, etc. I have no issue with full size Glocks for duty carry, just not right for some people for off-duty use.

:thumbsup:

makes sense

I shoot better with the pinky tucked under the gun
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
81
For me it's a feel thing...In a concealed weapon I don't like square grips, can't handle larger grips, hate floating pinky, dislike trigger safeties, etc. I have no issue with full size Glocks for duty carry, just not right for some people for off-duty use.

After trying to get to like my G19 and G23's I gave up on Glocks. If you don't like the trigger bar safety that glock and XD's use, try a Smith and Wesson M&P or the new SD line.
There are a lot of options out there for a quality handgun for right around $500
Hell for $400 go to Academy sports and pick up a Sig Pro 2022 in 9mm. For $50 more I think it is, you can get the version with night sites. These are very accurate and reliable guns.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
After trying to get to like my G19 and G23's I gave up on Glocks. If you don't like the trigger bar safety that glock and XD's use, try a Smith and Wesson M&P or the new SD line.
There are a lot of options out there for a quality handgun for right around $500
Hell for $400 go to Academy sports and pick up a Sig Pro 2022 in 9mm. For $50 more I think it is, you can get the version with night sites. These are very accurate and reliable guns.

To be fair I largely stopped looking after I fell in love with my current weapon, so I haven't gone in and tried many in the last five years. I looked for months before choosing my Taurus, however, so I'm pretty sure that there was nothing else out at the time that was as good.

I will need to replace it within a few years so I'll probably have to start looking again soon. As always I'll end up with whatever feels best, and shoots straightest, out of those I can try. I'll almost certainly stay with .40 however, because I'm big on having only one caliber for all weapons of that type (ie one caliber for pistols, one caliber for rifles). Unless p90s suddenly become legal I probably won't switch to five-seven. Even going to .45 would mean a LARGE investment to change over two full sets of guns and equipment (duty and concealed, holsters, cleaning, ammo, etc).
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
DO NOT GET A WALTHER P22. I had one and it is a piece of SHIT. I couldn't hit anything with it. I was lucky to get 10 rounds in a silhouette target at 10-15 feet. My Browning Buckmark 22 I can put 10 rounds within 2-inches at the same distance.

Just about every gun dealer I talk to says walther P22's are crap. In fact a couple of them in town refuse to even sell them.
And they sell KEL-TECS!
D:
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
46
91
wow...i was looking at guns somewhere online earlier and i saw a .357 derringer. I couldn't imagine shooting that. I don't like shooting .357 out of my colt trooper and that is a fairly large revolver.
 
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