YAL(Landlord)T: What constitutes 'normal wear and tear'

[purbeast0]

i have some scratches on the hardwood floors of our condo that are pretty deep from furniture moving when people have sat on it. we've been there over 5 years now.

our security deposit was $600 back when I started renting. i won't be surprised (and won't really mind either) if they need some of it or all of it to fix some of the scratches. other than that we've had absolutely no issues and are easy tenants for our LL.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This is what we are hoping to be able to negotiate with her. I'm fine with her charging us some money as that was our mistake and it is noticeable. Any suggestions on how to go about discussing this with her in a way that doesn't make her more inclined to look for other problems with the place? We have never had an issue with a security deposit or landlord in the past. It would be worth noting that there are actually two separate pieces of laminate so she would have to replace both pieces if she changed the color. My brother who does a lot of repair work on homes had mentioned that she will be getting a superior product by replacing it, even if it's the same color. What do you think?

If I were you, I would be upfront... admit yes, the stain needs fixed, yes you did it, but you'd like to be more involved than just giving up $350 to replace it.

I use a countertop guy, he dyes them.. The kits you find at home depot can be scratched off and aren't acceptable for repair. You may be able to dye the entire thing to get rid of the stain (unlikely), at this point you aren't going to make it worse. I've also heard of people glueing a new laminate top to the existing laminate, but as a LL I wouldn't be ok with that.


It doesn't look like 'builder's grade' cheap laminate to me. It looks like whoever did it caulked properly and etc. $350 is fair for a general remodeler or cabinet person to replace the top, although I would try to get it done for cheaper. It's not like she's asking for $500, $600..... $350 is fair to replace a laminate countertop.

 

[Veramocor]

Your landlord cannot charge you the full price of a new counter as what you damaged was an old counter. The most you owe him for is the cost of the depreciated counter. Think if you were at fault for totaling someones car. They do not get a new car that get the max value that the car was worth.

Say no more to him (so he doesn't as one person suggested add on to the charges) and allow him to send you the deducted security deposit. After he returns the deducted security deposit send him a letter asking for a refund of part of the 350. If he doesn't then take him to small claims court. Admit you damaged the counter but that you should not have to pay for a whole new counter but only the depreciated cost of the old counter. Also argue that the landlord did nothing to mitigate his damages by trying to repair the countertop. Ask for the whole 350 let the judge decide.

 

[Skillet49]

If I were you, I would be upfront... admit yes, the stain needs fixed, yes you did it, but you'd like to be more involved than just giving up $350 to replace it.

I use a countertop guy, he dyes them.. The kits you find at home depot can be scratched off and aren't acceptable for repair. You may be able to dye the entire thing to get rid of the stain (unlikely), at this point you aren't going to make it worse. I've also heard of people glueing a new laminate top to the existing laminate, but as a LL I wouldn't be ok with that.


It doesn't look like 'builder's grade' cheap laminate to me. It looks like whoever did it caulked properly and etc. $350 is fair for a general remodeler or cabinet person to replace the top, although I would try to get it done for cheaper. It's not like she's asking for $500, $600..... $350 is fair to replace a laminate countertop.

That's about what we've done at this point with talking to her. My husband is going to go over there this weekend to try and see what he can do to fix it. Hopefully that works but I've pretty much accepted that it will likely end in us losing that money out of our security deposit.

 

[Skillet49]

Your landlord cannot charge you the full price of a new counter as what you damaged was an old counter. The most you owe him for is the cost of the depreciated counter. Think if you were at fault for totaling someones car. They do not get a new car that get the max value that the car was worth.

Say no more to him (so he doesn't as one person suggested add on to the charges) and allow him to send you the deducted security deposit. After he returns the deducted security deposit send him a letter asking for a refund of part of the 350. If he doesn't then take him to small claims court. Admit you damaged the counter but that you should not have to pay for a whole new counter but only the depreciated cost of the old counter. Also argue that the landlord did nothing to mitigate his damages by trying to repair the countertop. Ask for the whole 350 let the judge decide.

Well she did try to clean the counter to see if the stain would lift. What we've been told by her and a sale associate at a hardware store is that some type of bleach product probably got on the bottom of a glass and that is what caused the discoloration. As others have said, we will probably just ask for her to take into account the depreciation of the counter and offer to pay for that amount. Per our lease agreement, we are responsible for things beyond normal wear and tear and I don't expect or feel that it's fair not to own up to that. If it were a lot more money, I would probably go to small claims court, but I don't feel like it's worth the trouble for $200 (because we probably should pay at least $150).

I might price out to see what it would be to replace both sections of it and have that installed and see if we can't split that cost with her and then she can get a color she likes better (she has mentioned that she wishes she would not have gotten the dark color) and maybe it will be cheaper for us. We'll see.

 

[NoCreativity]

Since when is 7 years considered "old" for a counter top? My first rental house has the original laminate counter tops in the kitchen that were installed in the 80s when the house was built.

They will last another 20 years if taken care of properly. Tenant caused the stain by leaving a cup there. Yeah it sucks but it is what it is.

Where did I say old? I was just pointing out that it isn't new, and the LL shouldn't make OP pay 100%. By your estimate, ~25% of the life of the counter is used up, so OP should be responsible for 75% of the cost, not 100%.

I can also see why the LL would charge 100%. LL would not need to spend anything(i.e. money and time) had OP not damaged it.

 

[jagec]

That is definitely not always the case. In a rental situation, laminate is by far the best option. Granite/solid mix countertops can be stained and/or broken, and NO WAY a deposit would cover the repair of stone or the solid mix stuff.

But that's true of ALL "high end" housing touches. There will always be damages that can't be covered by the deposit...what if the tenant destroys the carpet AND the dishwasher doesn't work anymore? What if they burn the place down? What if they steal all the plumbing?

I still say that laminate, even well-installed laminate, is cheap and can't really be considered "upscale".

 

[alkemyst]

Cosmetic at best and it's a small stain on a POS countertop.

The wive's business wouldn't ding someone for that and they manage over 500 homes with all sorts of "wear and tear" issues. Your landlord is being a dick and using you as the excuse to replace the counter.
Personally, I would tell him/her to go fuk themselves and have it repaired or prove beyond a doubt the counter requires replacement due to a minor cosmetic stain that is the size of a cup that makes it unuseable.

If they can't rent due to that stain, they have other problems. It's a rental. Not a new god damned house.

I seriously doubt any management company would let a ring on a countertop slide.

$350 is more than fair to replace it. I'd talk to the landlord if you can have it done yourself (if you can find something cheaper and comparable).

This is more than wear and tear.

A carpet can be badly worn, burned, etc and totally 'usable'...it would not be normal wear tear.

 

[coloumb]

If the OP can't find a better deal and instead negotiates a better [lower] amount to pay with the landlord - shouldn't the OP be able to have the right to ensure the landlord actually fixes the problem?

 

[alkemyst]

If the OP can't find a better deal and instead negotiates a better [lower] amount to pay with the landlord - shouldn't the OP be able to have the right to ensure the landlord actually fixes the problem?

no. Damages are damages whether one chooses to repair them.

The next tenant may or may not complain about this blemish...

Someone dents your car, it's just as usable as it was prior to the dent. Would you say "no problem"?

If you are paid for it, do you want to be required to repair it or should you be able to keep that money for something else?

 

[Krazy4Real]

$350 is fair. Pay it, learn your lesson, and move on.