Yankees win! Yankees win!

[chalmers]

At the rate it's going, baseball will become increasingly irrelevant in many major cities. I think they should just have a 3-4 team league, since that's about the only amount of teams that matter. Fans in Cincinnati, Washington, and Pittsburgh like baseball too. I feel bad for them. They like it just as much as NY fans. Hell, Cincinnati is the original baseball city and professional team. Baseball is in a sad state.

 

[chalmers]

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. In a truly, fairly competitive sport, such as football or basketball, a big market team such as NY can't just go out and outbid all of the small market teams because the CBA only allows them to spend as much as every other team. I believe both the NFL and the NBA also have a salary floor, so a team can't get by with having a payroll of $1 million.

The lack of a salary cap only benefits big market teams such as NY and Boston, who have mega bucks simply because of the large market they are in, and unfairly hinders the smaller market teams who, through no fault of their own, just don't have enough money to outspend the Yankees' or the Red Sox's of the league. They're supposed to be able to rebuild through their high draft picks as a "reward" for their bad record, but then the Yankees or Sox just come in and poach all of their best players anyway, so what's the point?

Well put.

 

[dwell]

SUCK IT YANKEE HATERS!!!!

Dominican Republic Yankees 2009 World Series Champions!

 

[Fingolfin269]

Wow. Amazing. And if the Yankees didn't have that big of a payroll then the money would be in the owners pockets. Just because owners of other teams could care less about winning, and taking care of their fans by putting a winning team on the field, don't blame the Yankees for capitalizing on the system in place.

OMG THE MARLINS OPERATE AT A DECENT PROFIT BUT DONT CARE ABOUT THEIR FANS ENOUGH TO PUT A WINNER ON THE FIELD

SUCK IT YANKEE HATERS!!!!

That is such a cop out argument and you know it. Do you think Steinbrenner is operating at a loss? I can't see your link because it's blocked at work but I imagine that even if the Marlins cut out all profit and decided to run the organization EVEN (no profit/loss) they still wouldn't be able to keep up with the Yankees.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. In a truly, fairly competitive sport, such as football or basketball, a big market team such as NY can't just go out and outbid all of the small market teams because the CBA only allows them to spend as much as every other team. I believe both the NFL and the NBA also have a salary floor, so a team can't get by with having a payroll of $1 million.

The lack of a salary cap only benefits big market teams such as NY and Boston, who have mega bucks simply because of the large market they are in, and unfairly hinders the smaller market teams who, through no fault of their own, just don't have enough money to outspend the Yankees' or the Red Sox's of the league. They're supposed to be able to rebuild through their high draft picks as a "reward" for their bad record, but then the Yankees or Sox just come in and poach all of their best players anyway, so what's the point?

I think the point is that Yankees fans are okay with 1/3 - 1/2 of the league being their farm system. Great system, eh?

 

[BeauJangles]

That is such a cop out argument and you know it. Do you think Steinbrenner is operating at a loss? I can't see your link because it's blocked at work but I imagine that even if the Marlins cut out all profit and decided to run the organization EVEN (no profit/loss) they still wouldn't be able to keep up with the Yankees.

To be fair, your example of the Marlins is bad. The ownership receives nearly $25 million / year (at last count) in revenue-sharing money. They're more interested in making money than fielding a winning team.

That doesn't take away from the tremendous financial advantage the Yankees have. With the integration of the YES network, the team clears over $300 million / yr in revenue. That pales in comparison to any other team in baseball.

 

[techs]

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. In a truly, fairly competitive sport, such as football or basketball, a big market team such as NY can't just go out and outbid all of the small market teams because the CBA only allows them to spend as much as every other team. I believe both the NFL and the NBA also have a salary floor, so a team can't get by with having a payroll of $1 million.

The lack of a salary cap only benefits big market teams such as NY and Boston, who have mega bucks simply because of the large market they are in, and unfairly hinders the smaller market teams who, through no fault of their own, just don't have enough money to outspend the Yankees' or the Red Sox's of the league. They're supposed to be able to rebuild through their high draft picks as a "reward" for their bad record, but then the Yankees or Sox just come in and poach all of their best players anyway, so what's the point?

That's not entirely accurate.
The Twins, for one, show that a small market team with good management can win on a low payroll. Plus by managing their salaries carefully teams like the Rays lockup young players before they get to their free agency years. Look at how they locked up Evan Longoria.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I think the point is that Yankees fans are okay with 1/3 - 1/2 of the league being their farm system. Great system, eh?

I made that point in one of my earlier posts; the only people who ever try to make the (absurd) claim that major league baseball is "balanced" and "fair" are Yankee and Red Sox fans.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

That's not entirely accurate.
The Twins, for one, show that a small market team with good management can win on a low payroll. Plus by managing their salaries carefully teams like the Rays lockup young players before they get to their free agency years. Look at how they locked up Evan Longoria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Series_.28modern.29_appearances_by_franchise

:hmm:

#2 and #3 on that list don't even have an equal amount of WS appearances as the Yankees. Not a whole lot of "parity" on that list, either...unless you're a Yankees fan, then it's "fair" since everyone else is far below the Yankees.

It's okay though...as long as MLB keeps doing the same old thing it's been doing which has led to it's rapid decline, it will continue to slowly fade into obscurity. Kind of sad, but really...no big loss at this point.

Edit: Let's have some more fun...let's sort that list by WS Wins. Oops, only one other team in double digits. In fact, if you add up #2, #3 and #4, they still don't have the same amount of WS wins as the Yankees. No wonder the Yankees will sue if a salary cap is ever instituted...the entire system is rigged to benefit them the most!

At least the NFL has the Steelers, Cowboys, Niners, Patriots, etc. who have all shared time being "the best franchise in the league", but there isn't one clear-cut superior franchise. The same with basketball, which at least has the Lakers AND the Celtics, and in modern times, you could add the Spurs in there.

Like I said, only Yankees (and, to a lesser extent, Red Sox) fans try to justify the the clearly broken system in the MLB. But, the New York Yankees are the poster child for everything that is wrong with MLB, and a clear example as to why the league has been in a free fall for a long time now.

 

[nageov3t]

Yeah, since according to a nameless(don't wanna get banned) ATOT genius teams set ticket prices based on players salaries.

So I guess the Milwaukee Brewers should just go to a 500 million dollar salary structure next year.
And charge 6 thousand a ticket.

people are willing to pay for yankees tickets and yankees merchandise... I guess I just don't get what's so fundamentally different about the yanks that a team based out of another major city is at such a disadvantage as to make it so that the yankees are "buying" wins.

 

[BoomerD]

Are you sure you don't just mean "the postseason"? Last time the Cubs had a World Series game was in 1945.

oops Thanks for the reminder...I guess I thought they had actually made it to the series in 2001...but they didn't even get to the play-offs?
Shows how much I pay attention to the game, doesn't it? I seem to remember all the fervor about the Cubbies going to the Series...I guess the Cub Curse struck again...

 

[BeauJangles]

people are willing to pay for yankees tickets and yankees merchandise... I guess I just don't get what's so fundamentally different about the yanks that a team based out of another major city is at such a disadvantage as to make it so that the yankees are "buying" wins.

The Yankees have most successfully vertically integrated baseball operations and revenue streams. Their ownership of the YES network brings in hundreds of millions of dollars to the organization. It's a model that has been copied by Boston (NESN) and a few other teams (Mets, too), but less successfully. On top of that, the Yankees have a wealthy owner who is passionate about winning and willing to reinvest huge portions of his profits back into the team. Teams like the Marlins are guilty of doing the opposite -- siphoning money off the team back into their pockets.

The Yankees are the biggest team in the largest TV market in the country. They have a rich history which gives them a much more passionate and dedicated fan base than many other teams. Basically, you cannot deny that the Yankees have more advantages than any other team in baseball. They are the perfect storm of money, location, and drive to win. Hence 27 championships.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

people are willing to pay for yankees tickets and yankees merchandise... I guess I just don't get what's so fundamentally different about the yanks that a team based out of another major city is at such a disadvantage as to make it so that the yankees are "buying" wins.

Not every other city is New York City, which is the money and media capital of the world. If you can't see how this is a huge advantage for a team operating in a league without a salary cap, I don't know how else to simply explain it to you...

Are you seriously trying to say that New York City and say, Minneapolis, for example, are on equal footing financially and have the same level of media power?

Why is there all this speculation about LeBron James going to the New York Knicks in 2010 and not say the Minnesota Timberwolves? It's not because of the Knicks being a good team...they are dreadful right now. It's because of the earning potential and media exposure that no other city can come even close to matching. At least the NBA has a built-in incentive for LeBron to stay with his original team (Cleveland), because only the Cavs can offer him the biggest contract, but baseball has nothing like this in place. So, the Yankees can just spend, spend, spend, buy, buy, buy while the other bottom-feeding teams watch all of their good talent get poached by the Yankees. And with no salary cap in place and the biggest market in the world, what's to stop them?

Nothing. And that's what is killing the MLB. The Yankees can literally buy championships.

 

[jman19]

I'm a Yankees fan, and I think the system is broken. I'm not going to let that take away any enjoyment I get from them winning though.

The system is broken, go petition MLB and the player's union.

 

[Phokus]

I'm a Yankees fan, and I think the system is broken. I'm not going to let that take away any enjoyment I get from them winning though.

The system is broken, go petition MLB and the player's union.

Or, if you're like me, just stop watching baseball altogether.

NFL > MLB

 

[bdude]

You all sound like a bunch of communists.

 

[bigdog1218]

Really? You read that entire post and that's all you can come up with? I'm simply pointing out why a lot of people have grown tired of major league baseball. The haves/have nots discrepancy has grown so exponentially ridiculous that teams like the Yankees are the only ones able to enjoy their home grown talent. Fans for teams like the Pirates know that if they somehow draft a talent on par with Pujols or A-Rod they might as well not even get accustomed to the guy because the Yankees will just come take him away.

The funny thing is teams like the Pirates and Marlins can spend more, they just choose not to. I can't find too many new numbers, but the Marlins made the most money in 2006. With $31million of their $43million profit coming from profit sharing. It's the same with teams like the Pirates and Rays, they all make about $30milllion a year in profit. It's the cheap owners putting out crappy teams that's the problem.

If you ask me putting out a crappy team as the owners pocket $43million is much worse than putting out the best team at any cost.

I think the NFL is a perfect example as to why a salary cap isn't a good solution. For all the talk of parity and fairness in the NFL, there are 9 teams with a winning percentage less than .300, most of them will probably stay there. 5 teams finished with a less than .300 percentage last year. The 2003 Tigers and '62 mets were the last two teams to finish that bad in baseball.

 

[BeauJangles]

I was going to post something very similar to this article:
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/11/did-the-yankees-buy-their-title.html.php

Personally I find this line of reasoning to be tired and lazy. Everyone has their own ideas of what ails baseball from a business perspective, and certainly the Yankees are playing a different game than everyone else these days. But counting the Yankees' titles and chalking them up to dollars alone is nonsense.

The Yankees payroll is obviously gigantic, but it did not come out of general lockstep with all of the other teams until around 2002. Before then they didn't always lead the league -- they were behind the Orioles in 1998, for example, -- and when they did lead the league, only a couple of million bucks separated them from a pack of the next highest payrolls. In fact, 2002 was the first time they were as much as $10 million higher than anyone else. Before then: four titles in the Jeter era.

The Bombers' payroll exploded in 2002 and continued to escalate through 2008. They somehow managed to buy no titles during that time. Much is made about signing Sabathia and Teixeira this year, but their 2009 payroll is actually lower than 2008's.

I'm not going to drink the Yankee-fan Kool-Aid and say that there's some level playing field out there. But if the past fifteen years have shown anything, it's that even if you can buy general competitiveness, you can't simply buy a World Title. To get that, you have to be smart, you have to execute and you have to be a bit lucky too.

The Yankees were all of those things this year, and to leave any part of that out is to fail to tell the whole story.

I still believe that MLB needs an overhaul, but it's good keep a bit of perspective here. The Yankees have unsuccessfully tried to "buy" a title six times and I still believe the only reason they succeeded this time was blind luck -- the best free agents at the positions the Yankees needed happened to all be above average to elite players. Imagine if the Yankees needed a 1B and 2 SP this offseason. I promise you they wouldn't be hoisting a WS Championship.

 

[PimpJuice]

Yankees fans - Enjoy your World Series Title.....it was yours to lose, like pretty much every year but......

just know that with the payroll that the Yankees field.....they are the laughing stock of ALL sports teams every year that they don't win, which would have been the last 7 years.

When you don't win, its like drafting a fantasy all-star team and losing to the girl in the office who just picks players based on how cute they are.

 

[Jack Ryan]

For those thinking a salary cap fixes everything...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704224004574489773943949070.html

 

[jman19]

The funny thing is teams like the Pirates and Marlins can spend more, they just choose not to. I can't find too many new numbers, but the Marlins made the most money in 2006. With $31million of their $43million profit coming from profit sharing. It's the same with teams like the Pirates and Rays, they all make about $30milllion a year in profit. It's the cheap owners putting out crappy teams that's the problem.

If you ask me putting out a crappy team as the owners pocket $43million is much worse than putting out the best team at any cost.

I think the NFL is a perfect example as to why a salary cap isn't a good solution. For all the talk of parity and fairness in the NFL, there are 9 teams with a winning percentage less than .300, most of them will probably stay there. 5 teams finished with a less than .300 percentage last year. The 2003 Tigers and '62 mets were the last two teams to finish that bad in baseball.

This is an excellent point, actually. A salary cap has not really brought parity to the NFL (although it is likely a lot better than it would be otherwise).

 

[Sinsear]

 

[BeauJangles]

No amount of winning will ever make me forget the A-Rod slap.

 

[AstroManLuca]

This is an excellent point, actually. A salary cap has not really brought parity to the NFL (although it is likely a lot better than it would be otherwise).

There are always shitty teams and good teams, and even teams that are usually pretty good most years in the NFL, but has there ever been an NFL team as dominant as the Yankees?

The Vikings of the 70s were very good, but they didn't manage to win a single one of the four Super Bowls they went to. The Cowboys of the late 80s and early 90s were amazing, but before that they weren't that good and they haven't been back since 1995. The Patriots are a powerful team for now, but they used to suck.

Every team in every sport has its ups and downs, even the Yankees, but they have still been consistently one of the best teams in baseball, and they are without a doubt a "flagship" team. They have droughts sometimes, but they always bounce back. The same cannot be said of the NFL. People sometimes refer to the Cowboys as "America's Team," but I don't think they're nearly as dominant in football as the Yankees are in baseball.

 

[BeauJangles]

There are always shitty teams and good teams, and even teams that are usually pretty good most years in the NFL, but has there ever been an NFL team as dominant as the Yankees?

There are no teams that have been as prolific as the Yankees, but blaming that one excessive spending is silly. The Yankees only started dramatically outspending the rest of the league in '02 and only have one WS title to show for it. Their previous reign of terror was based on great management, great luck, solid trades, etc.