Yankees win! Yankees win!

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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Why is Cliff Lee the only good pitcher left on the Phillies? Boooo. Next year.

Hamels is a great pitcher but he's screwed up in the head right now. He might come back next year and be great; if that happens the Phillies could cruise to another WS with a 1-2 starter combo like that.
 

chalmers

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2008
2,565
0
76
lol at Philly fans upset over losing. Try living in my city. I'd just like to have a winning season. Oh wait it's baseball, that'll never happen.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Love how Matsui hit the shit out of Pedro. Just desserts.

It's also nice to see guys like Posada, Rivera, and Jeter, who are such Yankee veterans, get this trophy.



Congrats to the NY Yankees and the NY Yankee fans
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
61
F the Yankees. And you live in Colorado. Don't you have a team there?

i lived in nyc for 34 years.
i moved to colorado 2 years ago.
that doesn't mean i cant or wont root for the yanks.
i also root for the giants too. and as much as i hate to say it, the islanders and the knicks.

i dont know a single colorado native who can say with a straight face they're a die hard Broncos, Rockies, Avalanch or Nuggets fan.

Colorado fans tend to be 'fair weather' fans. If their team is winning.. everyone loves them. Once they lose, they suck.
 

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
3,468
5
81
I think the hate for baseball in general is a regional thing. I was born and raised in brooklyn and the sport to watch was mainly baseball. Now, I live in florida. If you walk into a conversation, chances are its about football. reminds me of a bunch of redneck folks i know. they dislike the northern part of america and everything that has to do with it. that includes baseball. my advice for the haters, is stick to having sex with your cousin and dont mind any attention to the north.

have a nice day
 
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rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
parade at 11am today, anyone know if it's going to be broadcast on a station? I need to record it for someone.

EDIT>> appears it'll be ABC.
 
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Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
Here's a good article by Joe Posnaski, one of my favorite baseball/sports writers:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/11/05/yankees.payroll/1.html

His 'baseball obscures dominance' argument is spot-on, because that's the #1 argument Yankee fans have when saying the system is fine and the playing field is level.

The Yanks play within the rules*, so I don't really care they spend their asses off. But it's really not surprising that they won, nor is it some amazing feat. Baseball was boring this year. The Yanks dominated since late-May. Yawn.

*Let's face it, the Yankees are baseball, so the rules are made for and by them.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
1) Nobody (except the NYY homers in this thread) with a hint of intelligence will take a NYY championship seriously until baseball has a salary cap.

2) It took them 6 games to beat a team that spent 85.7% less money to win, /golfclap.

3) We need to hear more about this "Core 4" crap i.e. Posada/Jeter/Pettite/Rivera who didn't even make the playoffs last year until signing THE best all around 1B in the MLB, Mark Texeira to a contract worth more than the GDP of entire countries like Trinidad and Tobago. In addition, they went out and bought their #1 starter to a similar mega deal, and bought their #2 starter (both pitchers = combined $243 million dollar deal last year). They have the best third baseman/all around baseball player, the best closer, and arguably the best shortstop in baseball. Any title they "earn" has to be taken with a huge grain of salt since they field an All Star fantasy team every night.

4) The Yankees have 2 admitted steroid abusers: A-Rod (yes, still the same size as 2001-2003) and Pettitte (won 2 World Series games). Hard to take a team seriously that embraces cheaters, especially signing Pettitte to a 1year/$10 million contract. And before the idiots come out and say "everyone in baseball does them!", that's something we cannot prove nor disprove. All we know is these 2 guys were caught and admitted it.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
1) Nobody (except the NYY homers in this thread) with a hint of intelligence will take a NYY championship seriously until baseball has a salary cap.

2) It took them 6 games to beat a team that spent 85.7% less money to win, /golfclap.

3) We need to hear more about this "Core 4" crap i.e. Posada/Jeter/Pettite/Rivera who didn't even make the playoffs last year until signing THE best all around 1B in the MLB, Mark Texeira to a contract worth more than the GDP of entire countries like Trinidad and Tobago. In addition, they went out and bought their #1 starter to a similar mega deal, and bought their #2 starter (both pitchers = combined $243 million dollar deal last year). They have the best third baseman/all around baseball player, the best closer, and arguably the best shortstop in baseball. Any title they "earn" has to be taken with a huge grain of salt since they field an All Star fantasy team every night.

4) The Yankees have 2 admitted steroid abusers: A-Rod (yes, still the same size as 2001-2003) and Pettitte (won 2 World Series games). Hard to take a team seriously that embraces cheaters, especially signing Pettitte to a 1year/$10 million contract. And before the idiots come out and say "everyone in baseball does them!", that's something we cannot prove nor disprove. All we know is these 2 guys were caught and admitted it.

One hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
I know sp33demon is a bosox fan (right?), but his points are spot-on, especially #3.

if you don't think the salary cap matters, imagine for a second there was one and see which contributing players are still on the Yanks. Much more talent spread league-wide = whole different story.

I think the underlying theme is... non-yankee fans are saying "who cares" rather than giving a respectful congrats which most fans usually would. Put everyone on an even playing field and if they still win, then maybe folks would come around... if yankee fans even care about others' thoughts that is. Of course right now, there doesn't seem to be a problem to them.
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
One hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

Incredibly insightful story, so much in fact the Search function will point you to the Aspiring Children's Book Author thread. /snicker
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
I know sp33demon is a bosox fan (right?), but his points are spot-on, especially #3.

Yeah I like Boston but am apathetic now since they buy out the best players in baseball to compete with NY. Hard to get excited for teams like that who usurp 1 division spot and 1 wild card spot almost every single year and other great young teams like Texas/Tampa get left out.

Philly is my #2 team because it's home to me, and of course they were 2008 World Champs with almost all home grown talent (Howard, Werth, Utley, Victorino, Hamels, Madson, Chooch, J-Roll) who don't overpay their players like NY (take Jayson Werth for example - signed for 850K in 2006) but is still willing to pay enough to stay competitive (10mil/year for Ibanez). If there was a salary cap, Philly would probably still have a fav of mine Bobby Abreu (poached by NY of course). Imagine this year's Phils with Abreu? Of course, it would have relegated Werth to left but the Phils wouldn't have had to sign Ibanez with Pat the Bat leaving since Philly couldn't afford him.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
The Yankees have lost in the playoffs to lower paid teams more than they have won. (this is true for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th highest paid teams as well) Yet people still cling to the stupid copout that money buys penants.

Caps in other leages serve one purpose: Let the owners keep more money.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Yeah I like Boston but am apathetic now since they buy out the best players in baseball to compete with NY. Hard to get excited for teams like that who usurp 1 division spot and 1 wild card spot almost every single year and other great young teams like Texas/Tampa get left out.

Philly is my #2 team because it's home to me, and of course they were 2008 World Champs with almost all home grown talent (Howard, Werth, Utley, Victorino, Hamels, Madson, Chooch, J-Roll) who don't overpay their players like NY (take Jayson Werth for example - signed for 850K in 2006) but is still willing to pay enough to stay competitive (10mil/year for Ibanez). If there was a salary cap, Philly would probably still have a fav of mine Bobby Abreu (poached by NY of course). Imagine this year's Phils with Abreu? Of course, it would have relegated Werth to left but the Phils wouldn't have had to sign Ibanez with Pat the Bat leaving since Philly couldn't afford him.

Except that Philly "poached" Cliff Lee by trading him away from a team that knew it couldn't afford to re-sign him. There is no chivalry in sports.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
The Yankees have lost in the playoffs to lower paid teams more than they have won. (this is true for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th highest paid teams as well) Yet people still cling to the stupid copout that money buys penants.

Caps in other leages serve one purpose: Let the owners keep more money.

Actually it's more of a copout to say that money doesn't matter.

Read this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...11/05/yankees.payroll/index.html?eref=writers

Baseball rigged it so that the best team often doesn't win in the playoffs. Also the dominance of the yankees is more obscured than it is for dominant teams of other sports.


So you have this sport that tends to equalize teams. That helps blur the dominance of the Yankees. If the New England Patriots were allowed to spend $50 million more on players than any other team, they would go 15-1 or 16-0 every single year. And people would not stand for it. But in baseball, a great and dominant team might only win 95 out of 160, and it doesn't seem so bad.

The second thing is that, at the end of the year, the best teams are thrown together in a succession of short series that are fun to watch but are not designed to pick the best teams. Quite the opposite: A short series in baseball is designed to shelter weaknesses and expose strengths. Yuni Betancourt can out-hit A-Rod in a five-game series. Livan Hernandez can out-pitch Tim Lincecum in a one-game match-up. Baseball doesn't hide this -- they slam it down your throat. October baseball! Anything's possible! And so on.

And in that way the expanded playoffs have been genius for baseball -- not only because they are milking television for every dime, but because the short series have been baseball's one defense against the ludicrous unfairness of the New York Yankees. Hey, if the game is rigged, rig the game. The Yankees spend a lot more money than any other team. As a direct result, they had the best record in the American League in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2009. They made the playoffs every single year but one this decade (and going back to 1995). They are the best team with the best players every year -- that sort of big money virtually guarantees it.

So, you create a system in which the best team doesn't always win. In fact, you create a system in which the best team often doesn't win. For years the Yankees didn't win. They lost to Florida. They lost to Anaheim. They blew a 3-0 series lead against Boston. They lost to Anaheim again and Detroit and Cleveland -- and how could you say that baseball is unfair? Look, the Yankees can't win the World Series! See? Sure they spend $50 million more than any other team and $100 million more than most. But they haven't won the World Series! Doesn't that make you feel better?

And this has been the Wizard of Oz slight-of-hand game that MLB has been playing for a long time... Ignore the man behind the curtain who makes more money off of baseball than anyone else and can buy just about any player he wants. Ignore the absurdity of it all. Just remember: The Yankees haven't won in a while! Just remember: Anything is possible.

There's something else that people say: They talk about how money doesn't guarantee wins. And they point out that other teams (the Mets, the Cubs, the Astros, etc.) spend a lot of money and don't win. I think this actually makes for an interesting argument if you want to talk about the inequities of baseball... big markets, small markets, all that.

But the Yankees are a whole different argument. They are their own argument. The Yankees are not a big-market team. They DWARF big-market teams. They are quantitatively different from every other team in baseball and every other team in American sports. They don't just spend more money than every other team. They spend A LOT more money than every other team. The Boston Red Sox spend $50 million more than the Kansas City Royals? Who cares? The Yankees spend $80 million more than the Boston Red Sox.

The Yankees have a pat hand.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ki/11/05/yankees.payroll/1.html#ixzz0W6JnHAQZ
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Actually it's more of a copout to say that money doesn't matter.

Read this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...11/05/yankees.payroll/index.html?eref=writers

Baseball rigged it so that the best team often doesn't win in the playoffs. Also the dominance of the yankees is more obscured than it is for dominant teams of other sports.

That article is basically full of opinions. When they lose it not because they spend a lot, but when they win (even though its once in 10 years) its because they do? umm ok. When other teams win its a "ruse"? wtf really? He might as well say the Yankees lose most years ON PURPOSE to keep things the way they are. Fuckin retarded.

Sorry, the argument still blows, and articles like that one are written so losers like you will read them and feel a little better. There is a market for yankee hate, and your article sells to that market.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Except that Philly "poached" Cliff Lee by trading him away from a team that knew it couldn't afford to re-sign him. There is no chivalry in sports.

The Phils won it all without Lee in 2008 so their title wasn't achieved via high profile, bloated overpriced overpaid superstars.

Lee was traded for, not poached. If anything, Philly got Lee for an incredible deal RE: 9 mil option for 2010 in the trade for 4 prospects. In comparison, CC was stolen by NY for 23 mil PER YEAR over 7 years, AJ Burnett 16.5 over 5 years. Now, which team was poaching and which team made an actual prudent TRADE? It has nothing to do with "chivalry" and everything to do with poaching by offering salaries no other team is able to pay.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
That article is basically full of opinions. When they lose it not because they spend a lot, but when they win (even though its once in 10 years) its because they do? umm ok. When other teams win its a "ruse"? wtf really? He might as well say the Yankees lose most years ON PURPOSE to keep things the way they are. Fuckin retarded.

Sorry, the argument still blows, and articles like that one are written so losers like you will read them and feel a little better. There is a market for yankee hate, and your article sells to that market.

Learn to read: he's saying baseball rigged the game so that the best team doesn't always win in order to provide an excuse to the yankees payroll, but that still doesn't mean the yankees don't have a leg up on every other team by a long shot.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
Learn to read: he's saying baseball rigged the game so that the best team doesn't always win in order to provide an excuse to the yankees payroll, but that still doesn't mean the yankees don't have a leg up on every other team by a long shot.

Ya, the whole "rigged" argument is based on the fact that there's 5 game series'?

umm ok, even if this is plausible, how does this have anything to do with payroll? And since the 5 game series has existed for quite some time, how is it an advantage for one team and not others?

you really have to want to believe to make that sorta stretch.

EDIT:

Of the first round of 5 game series this year, the winners won 3-0 in 3 of them, 3-1 in another. Are you really going to tell me if you made them 7 games there would be a different outcome? Really?
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
That article is basically full of opinions. When they lose it not because they spend a lot, but when they win (even though its once in 10 years) its because they do? umm ok. When other teams win its a "ruse"? wtf really? He might as well say the Yankees lose most years ON PURPOSE to keep things the way they are. Fuckin retarded.

Sorry, the argument still blows, and articles like that one are written so losers like you will read them and feel a little better. There is a market for yankee hate, and your article sells to that market.

It seems like the argument flew over your head. To sum it up for you using empirical evidence (just read Moneyball): The biggest spenders are much more likely to make the playoffs. NY is the perfect example: they only missed the playoffs twice the past 15 years. No, this won't guarantee you the title but statistically if you make the playoffs ninety percent of the time you will eventually hit big.

MLB counters with: anything can happen! Odds are increased for other teams to statistically win in a short series, but if NY is there every year they will eventually statistically hit. The SI article is saying that MLB is trying to hide the fact that NY is in the playoffs almost every year (13 of past 15 - 86.78%) and won 5 of 13 (38.46% - over 1/3 of them) due to a broken profit sharing/salary cap system.

Your Homerism prevents you from grasping this point.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
The Yankees have lost in the playoffs to lower paid teams more than they have won. (this is true for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th highest paid teams as well) Yet people still cling to the stupid copout that money buys penants.

Caps in other leages serve one purpose: Let the owners keep more money.

Best players don't always perform best. That's a given. It's not a guarantee. But they give you the best chance. They give you the best chance to get the top spot which gives you the chance to play lesser teams (which by the way don't have the best players because another team has them) to make the finals easier, and then all you do is outperform within 7 games. It all adds up. So what if in a given year the Yankees happened to lose a 5 or 7-game series kicking them out? That validates your argument that money doesn't matter? No.

Take away 3 or 4 of your big names because a cap says you can't have them all - give them to other teams. You're forced to play some sub-par players to support your stars earning the majority. Do you think the Yankees still would've won this year? There's no way to know - that's how much it'll change things. At that stage, I'm sure you would feel as confident as the lesser teams do if you started on an even field. But that would be too fair for everyone else, wouldn't it?
 
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Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
It seems like the argument flew over your head. To sum it up for you using empirical evidence (just read Moneyball): The biggest spenders are much more likely to make the playoffs. NY is the perfect example: they only missed the playoffs twice the past 15 years. No, this won't guarantee you the title but statistically if you make the playoffs ninety percent of the time you will eventually hit big.

MLB counters with: anything can happen! Odds are increased for other teams to statistically win in a short series, but if NY is there every year they will eventually statistically hit. The SI article is saying that MLB is trying to hide the fact that NY is in the playoffs almost every year (13 of past 15 - 86.78&#37 and won 5 of 13 (38.46% - over 1/3 of them) due to a broken profit sharing/salary cap system.

Your Homerism prevents you from grasping this point.

It flew over MY head? Yet you didnt address anything in my last post.

Also, correlation != causation. Yankees are one team. How many times in the past 15 years did the second highest paid team get in? The 3rd?

You cant prove either way that the Yankees are good because they are paid more, or they are paid more because they are good. Or are both of these characteristics a product over ANOTHER cause, such as a front office that really wants to win? These issues of course arent addressed either.

And I'm not even a yankees fan, I just dislike the blind haters who look for excuses to discredit them. Homerism isnt with me.
 
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