YART: christianity and being "saved"

[CCCHeel]

Originally posted by: jyates
Sorry......I didn't know truth and knowledge had expiration dates on them

lol

 

[Gand1]

But, thank you for strengthening my point about Christians being much nicer and caring than non-Christians, generally speaking.

I think someone here is generalizing a bit too much. I like oranges better than pears but it does not make them nicer!

You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer?

This is what stem the hate! Christians are the only ones who feel the need to tell everyone else is going to go burn in hell.

I got news for you buddy, that is being elitist and trying to shove your religion on everyone else! Open your eyes and you might be able to see how wrong a comment like that is!

 

[nakedfrog]

I think my line of belief somewhat matches yours. I liken the higher power(s) to a jewel; one may look and see many facets. Due to cultural differences, I think the different religions can all draw from the same source and interpret it in a different way. So while it may seem paradoxical for so many religions to say that they are all the one true religion, I feel that they may all hold valid in their own way.
I'm not christian, but I do believe that the Bible does contain much good knowledge, but also that it is foolish to follow it slavishly to the letter. It seems more as a sort of general guideline than a rulebook, as it were.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm not religious so I don't really care about being "saved." When I die that's it. I go in the ground or my body is burned to ashes. That's it. End of story.

 

[StageLeft]

Some different religions worship the same God, but not all are valid and equal. I can't make up a new Skoorb religion and suddenly it's got as much backing or significant as Christianity.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Some different religions worship the same God, but not all are valid and equal. I can't make up a new Skoorb religion and suddenly it's got as much backing or significant as Christianity.

No, not suddenly, of course. It takes time. I imagine all religions were looked on as pretty goofy when they were brand new. Look at how much crap the mormons and witnesses still take.

 

[kage69]

Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

I am a US native who has lived in the Middle East and you are wrong. In 6 years of living in the Middle East, I never ONCE had a single Muslim tell me I was an infidel or lecture me on how Islam was correct and everything else was false. Going to college in the Florida Panhandle, it was a weekly occurence to be lectured and talked-down to from Southern Baptists, Pentacostals, etc - both on and off campus. Anyone who thinks religion is being forced down their throats.....has obviously spent too much time in proximity with a-hole evangelicals!



Try getting some worldy experience before opining to others, ok?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: kage69

Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

I am a US native who has lived in the Middle East and you are wrong. In 6 years of living in the Middle East, I never ONCE had a single Muslim tell me I was an infidel or lecture me on how Islam was correct and everything else was false. Going to college in the Florida Panhandle, it was a weekly occurence to be lectured and talked-downed to from Souther Baptists, both on and off campus. Anyone who thinks religion is being forced down their throats.....has obviously spent to much time in proximity with a-hole evangelicals!



Try getting some worldy experience before opining to others, ok?

No kidding! Man, stupid bible thumpers are always knocking on my door trying to save me. I wish they would just leave me the fvck alone!!! I have better things to do with my Sundays than put on a suit and go sing hymns in a church. :roll:

 

[kage69]

God (or Buddha)

Buddha is not god. Buddha just walked the path and offers insight to those who might follow.

 

[Ninjja]

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

yeah...um no actually, not that particular order my friend.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Sophia
Bear in mind that different Christian denominations have different views on salvation and justification. For the Catholic view, an excerpt from section 16 of Lumen Gentium, written by Pope Paul VI (1964) (emphasis mine)

On account of their fathers this people [the Jews] remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans [the Muslims], who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

This is reiterated in the Catholic Catechism (see #839-848) For a contrast with the views of some Protestants, see "Assurance of Salvation?" from Catholic Answers.

Believe (or disbelieve) what you will about the Catholic Church, but the views of the person who PMed you are not reflective of all Christians.

wow thanks for the quote! I am actually catholic!

But I always thought catholics and christians are very close to one another?? Maybe this is why I dont have the mentality that my religion is true, and the other are false?

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

That is a very strong statement. You are arguing that medicine X works and the other doesnt. But again that is totally not the case here, it is not proven that other medicines dont work. In your mind only that medicine X works.

Also in your first paragraph, you mentioned that some things are open to interpretation, while others are not (jesus the only way to salvation etc). I believe that jesus is A way to salvation, but there are also other ways. So I guess I think this is still open to interpretation?

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Gand1

But, thank you for strengthening my point about Christians being much nicer and caring than non-Christians, generally speaking.

I think someone here is generalizing a bit too much. I like oranges better than pears but it does not make them nicer!

You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer?

This is what stem the hate! Christians are the only ones who feel the need to tell everyone else is going to go burn in hell.

I got news for you buddy, that is being elitist and trying to shove your religion on everyone else! Open your eyes and you might be able to see how wrong a comment like that is!

This is exactly what I dont agree about christianity..

 

[StageLeft]

That is a very strong statement. You are arguing that medicine X works and the other doesnt. But again that is totally not the case here, it is not proven that other medicines dont work. In your mind only that medicine X works.

Being saved isn't really analogous with different medicines I don't think.

Also in your first paragraph, you mentioned that some things are open to interpretation, while others are not (jesus the only way to salvation etc). I believe that jesus is A way to salvation, but there are also other ways. So I guess I think this is still open to interpretation?

I would presume that he is talking in regards to how some things in the bible are open to interpretation while others are not. For instance, you can't read the bible and come to a logical conclusion that God consists of 15 entities, or that jesus christ was a feline. Those things are quite clearly not open to interpretation and are clearly spelled out, but other things are not so clear. In truth, since the bible doesn't have a section on every possible problem ever to be faced by anybody, people have to take what they believe the bible would intend for them to do in the case of a new problem not mentioned in it. And then of course there are multiple possible interpretations of the same thing written. They are not all correct, as only one can be, but unlike certain plain and obvious truths, there are cloudy areas in which it's difficult to ascertain as to the original intent.

 

[samgau]

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

You know, there are more than those three religions in the world. And for the Jews, they will go be with God being His chosen people, the rest will earn oblivion. If I recall correctly, the Jews don't believe in hell.

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

What??? where did you get that idea about women in hinduism!!!

Man and women are equal.... its one of the fundamental precepts of hinduism.... I'm hindu btw...

Of course, because of the patriarchal nature of the culture, women have been denigraded.... but that applies to almost every other culture on earth... and still do in many....

I don't understand why people have such a warped view of Hinduism.... probably watched Indiana Jones and the temple of doom too often...

 

[CCCHeel]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is what stem the hate! Christians are the only ones who feel the need to tell everyone else is going to go burn in hell.

I got news for you buddy, that is being elitist and trying to shove your religion on everyone else! Open your eyes and you might be able to see how wrong a comment like that is!



Hold on a second, "buddy".....you misunderstood what I was saying. I NEVER said this guy would burn in hell. Notice my quotations....I was quoting what HE SAID in his above post. Read the post above mine where he explicitely says:

"If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven."

I was asking him to clarify HIS words, NOT MINE. The "fire and brimstone" type Christians represent one of the largest threats to real Christianity in the world today.

So, understand clearly, that I am not saying this guy will be burning for eternity, his words, NOT mine.


"That is a very strong statement. You are arguing that medicine X works and the other doesnt. But again that is totally not the case here, it is not proven that other medicines dont work. In your mind only that medicine X works.

Also in your first paragraph, you mentioned that some things are open to interpretation, while others are not (jesus the only way to salvation etc). I believe that jesus is A way to salvation, but there are also other ways. So I guess I think this is still open to interpretation? "


I am simply trying to get you to understand things from my perspective - the Christian perpective. I view religion not in a subjective manner, but an OBJECTIVE manner - i.e. Christianity is an absolute truth. I can understand how other people of other faiths have different religious views, but just because they fervently believe that their's is the right way, doesn't change the fact that it's not the right way. Just like my medicine example: People believed the "wrong" medicine would heal them. It matters not how hard they believed it...the end was still the same...they were wrong.

I never claimed to be able to "prove" that my religion is the right way. I know it to be the case, through faith. As for you or anyone else, all I can do is try to show why I feel the way I do, and hope you understand.

As for your last statement, here I have to take a stand. PLEASE tell me how you have come to the conclusion, being Christian, that Jesus is a way and not the way to salvation. There are things open to interpretation in the Bible, and thisis certainly NOT one of them! It's like someone mentioned above, saying you're vegetarian but eating a steak everyday. It doesn't make sense.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

You know, there are more than those three religions in the world. And for the Jews, they will go be with God being His chosen people, the rest will earn oblivion. If I recall correctly, the Jews don't believe in hell.

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

What??? where did you get that idea about women in hinduism!!!

Man and women are equal.... its one of the fundamental precepts of hinduism.... I'm hindu btw...

Of course, because of the patriarchal nature of the culture, women have been denigraded.... but that applies to almost every other culture on earth... and still do in many....

I don't understand why people have such a warped view of Hinduism.... probably watched Indiana Jones and the temple of doom too often...

Totally understand how u feel man! I am not hindu but I get exposed to a lot of hindu stuff when I was little. What I dont like about hindusim is their caste system, if you are born in a lower caste then you are pretty much f-ked!

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

You know, there are more than those three religions in the world. And for the Jews, they will go be with God being His chosen people, the rest will earn oblivion. If I recall correctly, the Jews don't believe in hell.

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

What??? where did you get that idea about women in hinduism!!!

Man and women are equal.... its one of the fundamental precepts of hinduism.... I'm hindu btw...

Of course, because of the patriarchal nature of the culture, women have been denigraded.... but that applies to almost every other culture on earth... and still do in many....

I don't understand why people have such a warped view of Hinduism.... probably watched Indiana Jones and the temple of doom too often...

It's the reason people have a warped view about a lot of things......they don't
have any actual experience or knowledge of the subject but they do have a lot of comments.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

Hey shiz, I thought I made it clear that if you were just going to flame, then to just move on. But, thank you for strengthening my point about Christians being much nicer and caring than non-Christians, generally speaking. I do believe that the words in the Bible were divinely inspired, and I have no way to justify/prove that - that's why Christians have this little thing called FAITH. Just because you can't accept something on faith doesn't mean it is not there. I do believe people "talked" to God. Heck, I have "talked" to God plenty of times.

Nothing about my post above it ignorant or egotistical. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of things in life that are absolute truths. You can't believe that you can get in shape by either 1.) dieting and exercising, or 2.) Sitting on the couch eating pizza and drinking beer. Of those 2 ways, only one will work! Plain and simple. It's the same way I view Christianity, it is the only way. The belief that I subscribe to mandates that. Just because you don't agree with it does not somehow magically make me ignorant and egotistical. Try better the next time you come in here, guns blazing, trying to cut me down. I'll beat you every time.

You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer? Are you writing this from a mental hospital or something? Just what is it about Christianity that you hate so much? See, that's the difference between you and I. You disagree with Christianity and as a result hate it. I disagree with your beliefs, and leave it at that. I actually wish you did not believe that way, and wish that you would come to know some of the things that I know. My life is far from "ridiculous", "indoctrinated", and "unthinking".

Look back at both of our posts. Mine is simply my beliefs and a response to this thread's question. Your's is a hate-filled rant, directed towards myself. You be the judge. From a 3rd-party perpective, which of us would you rather sit down and hang out with?...

He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

you contradict yourself. here you say it is a fact, and above you say it is your belief. to say that it is a fact is indeed egotistical. Also claiming you will "beat me every time" sounds pretty egotistical to boot. I don't hate Christianity, just like I don't hate guns. I don't like blind faith much, due in no small part to its historical devastation. I wish you would come to know some of the things I know also.

 

[BladeWalker]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
<snip>

Nothing about my post above it ignorant or egotistical. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of things in life that are absolute truths. You can't believe that you can get in shape by either 1.) dieting and exercising, or 2.) Sitting on the couch eating pizza and drinking beer. Of those 2 ways, only one will work! Plain and simple. It's the same way I view Christianity, it is the only way. The belief that I subscribe to mandates that. Just because you don't agree with it does not somehow magically make me ignorant and egotistical. Try better the next time you come in here, guns blazing, trying to cut me down. I'll beat you every time.

<snip>

It's not that simple. Your comparision to exercise vs eating like a slob is seriously flawed. The benefit of exercising is made clear by so many athletes and the detriment of eating &amp; drinking heavily is made clear by the overweight problem of America. Those are repeatible by experiment. You can test it out yourself and the results are obvious. It is universally accepted because it has a scientific basis to it.

Unfortunately, this is not the case for religious belief. Do you personally know anyone who has ever come back from the afterlife and verified exactly what "heaven" is like? There's no verifiable truth in religious belief. I hate to break your heart, but that includes Christianity. Your stances is on "faith". Not all of us can accept something without verifiable evidence and take that giant leap. You gotta ask yourself what makes your faith better than other faiths?

It's fine to express what you believe, but to state that it is the absolute truth is egotistical. Especially something that is built on faith. Having absolute confidence with something that is not verifiable is completely egotistical.

 

[CCCHeel]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

Hey shiz, I thought I made it clear that if you were just going to flame, then to just move on. But, thank you for strengthening my point about Christians being much nicer and caring than non-Christians, generally speaking. I do believe that the words in the Bible were divinely inspired, and I have no way to justify/prove that - that's why Christians have this little thing called FAITH. Just because you can't accept something on faith doesn't mean it is not there. I do believe people "talked" to God. Heck, I have "talked" to God plenty of times.

Nothing about my post above it ignorant or egotistical. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of things in life that are absolute truths. You can't believe that you can get in shape by either 1.) dieting and exercising, or 2.) Sitting on the couch eating pizza and drinking beer. Of those 2 ways, only one will work! Plain and simple. It's the same way I view Christianity, it is the only way. The belief that I subscribe to mandates that. Just because you don't agree with it does not somehow magically make me ignorant and egotistical. Try better the next time you come in here, guns blazing, trying to cut me down. I'll beat you every time.

You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer? Are you writing this from a mental hospital or something? Just what is it about Christianity that you hate so much? See, that's the difference between you and I. You disagree with Christianity and as a result hate it. I disagree with your beliefs, and leave it at that. I actually wish you did not believe that way, and wish that you would come to know some of the things that I know. My life is far from "ridiculous", "indoctrinated", and "unthinking".

Look back at both of our posts. Mine is simply my beliefs and a response to this thread's question. Your's is a hate-filled rant, directed towards myself. You be the judge. From a 3rd-party perpective, which of us would you rather sit down and hang out with?...

He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

you contradict yourself. here you say it is a fact, and above you say it is your belief. to say that it is a fact is indeed egotistical. Also claiming you will "beat me every time" sounds pretty egotistical to boot. I don't hate Christianity, just like I don't hate guns. I don't like blind faith much, due in no small part to its historical devastation. I wish you would come to know some of the things I know also.

Once again, you have misunderstood my post. I did not contradict myself. Me saying that Christianity is the one, true way is a belief. I'm not sure how you are saying my above statement was a fact. To me, Christianity is the only way, plain and simple.

As for my "beat you every time" statement, it was said a bit in jest and in response to your obvious flame towards me. I am well-grounded in what I believe, and, without trying to sound arrogant, am very knowledgable in religious views/common debates/arguements/etc. I have a B.A. in Religious Studies from a very good university and just finished my Master's degree. I can argue with the best of them, and am confident that I can hold my own. Sorry if you think I am egotistical. It's just that I thought I made it clear that I did not want people coming at me flaming, as I did not do that at all in my original post.

I can understand how blind faith has caused many problems in the past, the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. Much of that, however, was more the political ambitions of the Catholic Church (which I am not) than having to do with Christianity. Jesus would hardly have supported such a thing. Heck, Hitler used religious propaganda to rally the masses in Germany, but I don't think anyone would sanely argue that Hitler was Christian.



"It's not that simple. Your comparision to exercise vs eating like a slob is seriously flawed. The benefit of exercising is made clear by so many athletes and the detriment of eating &amp; drinking heavily is made clear by the overweight problem of America. Those are repeatible by experiment. You can test it out yourself and the results are obvious. It is universally accepted because it has a scientific basis to it.

Unfortunately, this is not the case for religious belief. Do you personally know anyone who has ever come back from the afterlife and verified exactly what "heaven" is like? There's no verifiable truth in religious belief. I hate to break your heart, but that includes Christianity. Your stances is on "faith". Not all of us can accept something without verifiable evidence and take that giant leap. You gotta ask yourself what makes your faith better than other faiths?

"It's fine to express what you believe, but to state that it is the absolute truth is egotistical. Especially something that is built on faith. Having absolute confidence with something that is not verifiable is completely egotistical."



There is no verifiable (i.e. scientific) truth in religious views. I know that and have no problem with that. As I said before, that is why faith is such a large part of religion. I am not talking about blind faith, but faith nonetheless. I think you misunderstood what I said above. Christianity is an absolute truth, for me. It is one of my beliefs. I cannot go around professing to be Christian, but at the same time leaving the door open for other religions - to do so is to move away from some of the core beliefs in Christianity. I have to disagree with your statement that having absolute faith in somehting not verifiable is egotistical. There's nothing egotistical about it! Scientists believe in black holes. They have never seen one, they can only observe its effects. Are they egotistical for believing in somehting that cannot be verified? How about time. Is time relative or not? It has to be one or the other. If someone proposed either side as absolute truth, would thye be considered egotistical? Come on, what are you talking about?

 

[maziwanka]

i understand cccheel's claims - there are facets of being a true christian that require believing that christianity is an absolute truth. however, this does not imply that christianity is the one, true way. your faith in christianity as the truth exists because it must, not because it is.

 

[thomsbrain]

sounds to me that the guys argument is equal to when you ask your parent something and they say "because i said so."

hint to the zealots: this is not a valid logical argument, so as long as you're not going to argue with logic, don't argue with people.

of course, in that case, you at least know your parent really DID say so. the zealot's argument is more like "because someone who may or may not have translated this correctly says that someone who may or may not have been a real person claims that another person who may or may not have been real says that an entity beyond the scope of our current reality said so."

dammmmmmn. tough to argue against that kind of astute reasoning, isn't it?

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

i will only say this if you truly believe in Christ and his teachings that would be your first priority,
certain things of this world hurt and blind people you will always come across something that is meant to pull you to the wrong path because the wrong path is wide and spacious and has many different forms, ive been pulled many times and im in the struggle to get out of one currently

but i deserve it, as i need to suffer because thats the only way i will break out

with that said i hope all of you really can hear and remember that the right path is always narrow

 

[TheShiz]

"I can understand how blind faith has caused many problems in the past, the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. Much of that, however, was more the political ambitions of the Catholic Church (which I am not) than having to do with Christianity. Jesus would hardly have supported such a thing. Heck, Hitler used religious propaganda to rally the masses in Germany, but I don't think anyone would sanely argue that Hitler was Christian."

yet by your own argument if Hitler accepted jesus he should be in heaven right now, correct? That would make him christian, correct?


"There's nothing egotistical about it! Scientists believe in black holes. They have never seen one, they can only observe its effects. Are they egotistical for believing in somehting that cannot be verified? "


the difference is that when scientists debate black holes they are not asserting that "they have the truth" or whatever it is that you claim to have. They base judgements on scienfitic fact, and if they cannot, their positions do not fly. All of your claims have absolutely no factual basis whatsoever. I guess you like that kind of reasoning, to each his own.

Edit: also, you should think before overusing your analogies, they are pretty bad.