YART: christianity and being "saved"

[CCCHeel]

Originally posted by: TheShiz
"I can understand how blind faith has caused many problems in the past, the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. Much of that, however, was more the political ambitions of the Catholic Church (which I am not) than having to do with Christianity. Jesus would hardly have supported such a thing. Heck, Hitler used religious propaganda to rally the masses in Germany, but I don't think anyone would sanely argue that Hitler was Christian."

yet by your own argument if Hitler accepted jesus he should be in heaven right now, correct? That would make him christian, correct?


"There's nothing egotistical about it! Scientists believe in black holes. They have never seen one, they can only observe its effects. Are they egotistical for believing in somehting that cannot be verified? "


the difference is that when scientists debate black holes they are not asserting that "they have the truth" or whatever it is that you claim to have. They base judgements on scienfitic fact, and if they cannot, their positions do not fly. All of your claims have absolutely no factual basis whatsoever. I guess you like that kind of reasoning, to each his own.

Edit: also, you should think before overusing your analogies, they are pretty bad.

1.) Yes, you are correct about Hitler, but you are leaving the point was making and going into something different. That makes no sense.

2.) I have already said, no one can "prove" faith. As for facts backing up scripture, there are countless archaeological discoveries that have verified the places found in the Bible.

3.) So, you're telling me there are no scientists that claim black holes are not theory but are fact? I beg to differ.

As for you taking pot shots at me, I couldn't care less. I have come to expect such drivel from people like you - those who simply disagree with Christianity, but have some sort of extreem dislike them it. I am not overusing any analogy. They are all logical and concise. I am sorry if they are above your head and you cannot understand them.

 

[Sophia]

CCCHeel,

What do you believe is the prospect for salvation for those who have never had the opportunity to hear the message of the Gospels?

 

[CCCHeel]

Originally posted by: Sophia
CCCHeel,

What do you believe is the prospect for salvation for those who have never had the opportunity to hear the message of the Gospels?

That's a real tough question. The short answer is that no one knows for sure. I can't quote the scripture, but I know it is addressed in the Bible. I do not think that just because someone grew up in a small village somewhere in the jungles of Africa and never heard about Christianity that they will somehow be condemned. That's like arguing children that died before they got old enough to hear and understand Christianity would be condemned.

Just speaking as a rational believer in Christ, I envision something of this:

What such a person dies, they are made aware of God and Christ. At that point they have a choice to follow God or not. It is pure conjecture on my part, but it's kind of what I would expect to happen. Hope that helps.

 

[Sophia]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Sophia
Bear in mind that different Christian denominations have different views on salvation and justification. For the Catholic view, an excerpt from section 16 of Lumen Gentium, written by Pope Paul VI (1964) (emphasis mine)

On account of their fathers this people [the Jews] remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans [the Muslims], who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

This is reiterated in the Catholic Catechism (see #839-848) For a contrast with the views of some Protestants, see "Assurance of Salvation?" from Catholic Answers.

Believe (or disbelieve) what you will about the Catholic Church, but the views of the person who PMed you are not reflective of all Christians.

wow thanks for the quote! I am actually catholic!

But I always thought catholics and christians are very close to one another?? Maybe this is why I dont have the mentality that my religion is true, and the other are false?

Catholics and other Christian denominations clearly share some beliefs in common, and obviously divide on others, the disagreements being the reason for the existence of different denominations, after all.

Strictly speaking, however, while the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is not impossible for non-Christians, it rejects the moral relativists' view that all religions are "true".

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
2.) I have already said, no one can "prove" faith. As for facts backing up scripture, there are countless archaeological discoveries that have verified the places found in the Bible.

Yet, there have been many other findings disproving scripture.

 

[glen]

Being "saved" is a new idea to Christianity part of a sect called Calvinism.

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: glen
Being "saved" is a new idea to Christianity part of a sect called Calvinism.

The Gospels and other books in the new testament talk about
"Saved" and "Salvation" several times so it isn't a new idea in the
least.

 

[Lovepig]

The issue is that Christianity is true, and all other religions are false.

Christianity is the group of people who try to learn and live the teachings if Jesus Christ. It is not a religion. Even the people who practice 'Christianity' disagree on many topics, some of which are critically important.

It is misleading to say "Christianity is true" since there is no set doctrines of Christianity. People who claim to be Christians disagree with each other, much less with other religions altogether. And how one set interprest the Bible can be dramaticaaly different from how another set interprets it. Which sect of 'Christianity' is right? Who can determine and how?