YART: christianity and being "saved"

[z0mb13]

This will be a long post, and it deals with a touchy subject. Please do not flame, and no trolling please! Civilized discussion only!

Ok it all started with this thread. Someone made a comment asking whether the person who was dying is "saved" or not. Then I made another comment at the bottom, basically saying that I dont agree about the "saved" concept of christianity. I believe that all religions are equal, and saying that if a person does not convert to christian, then he is not saved is just wrong. By the way I am christian as well.

Sooo a couple of days later someone PMed me the following message (lets call him JohnDoe, since I dont want to reveal his identity, it is up to him if he wants to reveal his identity):


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Originally posted by: z0mb13

quote:

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Originally posted by: Atomicus
My sympathy goes out to you and those around your family. In all seriousness, is she saved?
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I'm sorry, but asking whether she is saved or not is just pure FLAMEBAIT!

I am christian, but I have half a mind NOT to say this to people
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You would rather people feel secure and happy in complacency, than people feel uncomfortable and challenged by being exposed to Christ?

Misplaced priorities, man. Much of what Paul did in his ministry would've been "flamebait", and almost all of Jesus' ministry on earth was "flamebait". I'm not saying that we should seek to start arguments concerning God, because many times that leads nowhere and simply alienates the ones whom we wish to bring to Christ, but there are times when pressing the issue, even though it may cause discomfort.


Then I replied back with this:

I am sorry but maybe its just because I am too liberal?

IMO it is wrong to force your religion to other people.

I believe all religion are good, one is not better or worse than the other.

Saying that a person is not "saved" if he/she doesnt convert to christinaity is the same as saying that christinaity is superior to any religion on earth. Or even worse, saying that the religion that the person believes in is WORSE than christianity.

I was brought up (and still believe) that all religion are good. I was exposed to multiple religions when I was a kid, and I respect all of them.

I dont condone spreading christianity throughout the world, because I know that christianity is Good, and it has good ideas and merit. However bashing other religions is a no no.

Imagine if other religion say that you will never go to heaven since you dont follow their religion. I dont have to go too far for an example: a certain denomination of christianity claims that catholics will go to hell unless they convert to their denomination


Then he replied back with this:

In that case, then, your religion is false. You can't call it Christianity, because it isn't.

I understand that this may seem "intolerant" or "hateful" to you, but to reject outright what Christ Himself said is glaringly, for lack of better word, "unchristian".

John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through Me..

Christ is the only way to Heaven, and all other paths lead to Hell. Unbalanced, you say? The Bible agrees. There is only one way to Heaven (Christ) whereas there are many ways to destruction.

As much as I respect other people, I will not tolerate someone whom may very well be a brother of mine in Christ (because as far as I know, you have accepted Christ as your savior) being led astray by Satan's influence.

Call me a fundamentalist, or a zealot, it will not change what God has said.

Then I replied with this:

oh and another one, what is your view on racism? Is it ok to be racist to another race?

I am willing to bet that you are against racism (well if you agree with racism then my following argument will be shot).

What is the difference between believing that your race is superiror than someone else's, from believeing that your religion is better than other people's religion? Your only saving grace is because you have God for reasoning.


Then he replied:

The spiritual is on a completely different plane than physical. This world is only temporary, and thus what we are given on it should not matter nearly as much as our souls, which are eternal, created by God. To scale it down, it would be sort of like judging someone by their character. Past the skin color, past the mental capacity, each human created by God has a soul meant to glorify God, through worship and also through doing what God enabled us to do (i.e. using talents given to us, or other such blessings, such as they are called).

You say "better". "Better" is a term for relativism. That is to say, it is a sliding scale, i.e. milk is good, but OJ is better. That's not the issue in Christianity. The issue is that Christianity is true, and all other religions are false.


So whats your take in this??

 

[upsciLLion]

Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

 

[PowerEngineer]

All religions claim to be the one true word from the divine. Anyone who absolutely believes in any religion scares me.

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"THERE ARE TWO PARTS to the human dilemma. One is a belief that the end justifies the means. That push-button philosophy, that deliberate deafness to suffering, has become a monster in the war machine. The other is the betrayal of the human spirit: the assertion of dogma that closes the mind, and turns a nation a civilisation into a regiment of ghosts - obedient ghosts, or tortured ghosts.'"

"It is said that science will dehumanise people and turn them into numbers. That is false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance. It was done by dogma. It was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods."

"Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known, we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error, and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: 'I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken'. "

"I owe it,as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died at Auschwitz, to stand here by the pond as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people."

-- Jacob Bronowski; "The Ascent of Man," page 374

 

[Kilgor]

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

 

[Wuffsunie]

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

You know, there are more than those three religions in the world. And for the Jews, they will go be with God being His chosen people, the rest will earn oblivion. If I recall correctly, the Jews don't believe in hell.

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

 

[jagec]

what's with all the P & N threads ending up in Off Topic? I think they should ban everyone who starts a thread in the wrong forum

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

1. man
2. animal
3. insect
4. plant
5. woman

ya...that list seems right to me =)

 

[Nitemare]

Hmmm...A man who has never sinned his entire life. He has always done good to others, but he has not found Jesus...This man will be going to Hell

A Ted Kazynski, Polpot or an Adolf Hitler finds redemptian and God right before they die...These men will go to Heaven

The Bible was written by some crackheads.

 

[Sophia]

Bear in mind that different Christian denominations have different views on salvation and justification. For the Catholic view, an excerpt from section 16 of Lumen Gentium, written by Pope Paul VI (1964) (emphasis mine)

On account of their fathers this people [the Jews] remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans [the Muslims], who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

This is reiterated in the Catholic Catechism (see #839-848) For a contrast with the views of some Protestants, see "Assurance of Salvation?" from Catholic Answers.

Believe (or disbelieve) what you will about the Catholic Church, but the views of the person who PMed you are not reflective of all Christians.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

marked for later reading:

Going to bed now.

 

[BladeWalker]

Any discussion about Christianity is a touchy subject IMO. I'm an agnostic (former Christian). I have to say that he does have a point. It seems to me that fundamentalist belief is closer to the bible than liberal leaning, tolerant Christian. Personally, I think the bible is full of sh!t. I drew away from Christianity after reading the bible for myself without someone elses interpretation (kind of ironic). There are verses in the bible which support the fundamentalist Borg mentality. Be fruitful and multiply. Make the world Christian. Thats the general message. There's not much room for other religions.

The irony is that I think that you can be "saved" since you can be reasoned with, sensible and tolerant of other beliefs whereas most fundamentalists seem to be "brainwashed" into dronelike behaviour they can't snap out of unless they start to think for themselves. When I hear Christians asking if you're "saved" or not I immediately think of the Borg. "Assimilate. Resistance is futile."

So much for keeping JohnDoe anonymous. Not only it is apparent from clicking on the other thread, but also his handle appear in your post.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Hmmm...A man who has never sinned his entire life. He has always done good to others, but he has not found Jesus...This man will be going to Hell

A Ted Kazynski, Polpot or an Adolf Hitler finds redemptian and God right before they die...These men will go to Heaven

The Bible was written by some crackheads.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

Yeah, and this idea holds true for much more than religion. Too many US citizens take our freedom for granted. NOTHING in life is perfect - I'll be the first one to tell you that my pet peeve with the US (I'm a US citizen) is drug policy - but in most other countries, I couldn't even tell you that it was my pet peeve without being beheaded or something... Too many people assume that freedom exists everywhere and speak out against the US. It's not just third world countries either - Japan has a rather horrific drug policy (makes US drug laws look like slaps on the wrist) and many other Asian countries follow suit. Sorry for the hijack paragraph.

I'd say the bible was written by some extremely intelligent people, not crackheads. Its purpose was to control a very large number of people and forward the advancement of civilization & society - of the species as a whole, really. I have a very (for an atheist) atypical view of religions and their tenets (bible, quran, torah, etc) in general - I think they've been extremely helpful in the past and are still excellent "life manuals" for people, if used as such. The problem is that something so drastic as believing in a 'guy in the sky' is no longer necessary - people can be compelled to be productive members of society simply by being reminded of the benefits which civilized society provides us (if we were still fighting each other for women, for instance, we'd likely not have worked together to form something like the internet, which is the only real reason I personally am not a hermit ). There's no longer a need for the threat of eternal damnation, and while it may have been negligible in the past in comparison to the potential benefit, it's now rather detrimental I think. Zealots, and even believers to a degree, are seen as mentally unstable now.

 

[Rainsford]

I like Buddhism because it's all about what you do, the path to enlightenment is one only you can walk...God (or Buddha) is not going to carry you. It is a long and difficult path, and if you ask a Buddhist about this, they will tell you it is supposed to be hard, otherwise it wouldn't be worth very much.

No offense intended to Christians, but in Christianity all the work is done by God. In fact, God already did the necessary work, you simply have to want to be saved. I'm not saying that's easy to do either, but it amounts to different ideas.

Do you think you should be "saved" (however it is defined in your religion) by what you do, or by what you believe? There's no right answer to that question, and I would be very suspicious of ANYONE who tries to get you to answer it their way instead of the way that works best for you.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
No offense intended to Christians, but in Christianity all the work is done by God. In fact, God already did the necessary work, you simply have to want to be saved. I'm not saying that's easy to do either, but it amounts to different ideas.

I'll argue this and say it's more dependant on the person (and, by extension, her/his culture) rather than the religion. One of my closest (well, probably the closest) friends I have is an extremely devout Catholic. I think Catholocism is similar enough to Christianity to qualify for this particular argument. This guy is very intelligent, successful, fun-loving, and just all-around fun to be around. In effect, he's the kind of person that other guys envy and try to emulate - and that girls fawn over. You would never know about his religious beliefs unless a) you are a close friend of his and b) you ask him. In the terms of your argument, he does the work himself, rather than letting a God do it for him. This highlights the importance of interpretation, and opens to questioning the culture behind the religion, in many cases. He's from an Asian family (which generally emphasize hard work, which goes in line with what I've said about his beliefs).

 

[CCCHeel]

Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

 

[jyates]

Agree with previous post.

I can call myself a vegetarian but if I eat meat regulary am I really a vegetarian?

In the same vein one can't call themselves a Christian and yet ignore the teachings
and commandments of Christ.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie

Originally posted by: Kilgor

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Anyone in America that thinks religion is being forced onto them or shoved down their throat should go live in the Middle East/Persia for a while.

???

My take is if you?re a Christian you think you will be saved and the other religions will go to hell. And if you?re a Muslim the other religions are infidels that go to hell. And if you?re a Jew your better than both because Jews are the chosen people and they invested in both Heaven and Hell. And if you?re none of the above you just turn back into dirt when you die

You know, there are more than those three religions in the world. And for the Jews, they will go be with God being His chosen people, the rest will earn oblivion. If I recall correctly, the Jews don't believe in hell.

If you want a fun religion in terms of what happens after you die, look at Hinduism. If you achieved enlightenment, you go ascend to the next level of existence I believe. If you don't, you come back to try again. I think the scale for where you end up depending on how "good" you were starts at man, then goes down to animal, insect, plant, woman.

what you are describing is Buddhism. I'm reading a book about it right now, and like the idea of personal enlightenment over the common herd mentality of other religions.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: jyates
Agree with previous post.

I can call myself a vegetarian but if I eat meat regulary am I really a vegetarian?

In the same vein one can't call themselves a Christian and yet ignore the teachings
and commandments of Christ.

* True *

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

Since when does faith mean that a person doesn't think? I'm curious why
bashers state people of faith can't think for themselves.

I'm sure there are a lot of things you agree with that have been written in
books that you haven't proved out yourself but yet you find it to be conclusive
don't you?

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: jyates

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

Since when does faith mean that a person doesn't think? I'm curious why
bashers state people of faith can't think for themselves.

I'm sure there are a lot of things you agree with that have been written in
books that you haven't proved out yourself but yet you find it to be conclusive
don't you?

with all that is out there you find a 2 THOUSAND year old book to be conclusive? that is what amazes me.

 

[Jzero]

Any intelligent Christian knows that there is a time and a place for evangelism, and also knows that that thread you quoted was not the proper time or place.
I've been called a heretic by better people than the one who PMed you, and I'm sure you have been, too.

 

[CCCHeel]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: CCCHeel
Sorry OP, but you're simply wrong. Calling yourself a Christian means you believe in certain things. Some are open to interpretation (the role of women in the clergy, how to dress, how to pray and sing, etc.) some are not (Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, there is one God, Salvation is through Jesus alone, etc.). You simply cannot call yourself Christian but go directly against what Jesus said plainly in the Bible.

Your example using race is like trying to compare apples to oranges. You use the arguement of one race being "better" than another. That is not what the other guy, you were debating/arguing, was saying. He was saying (and I am saying) that it is not a case of Christianity being better than Judaism or Hinduism, but that Christianity is true, and the others are not.

Think of it this way. Persons A, B, and C are sick with a disease that can only be cured by Medicine X. For various reasons B and C believe than other medicines will save them. They are convinced that these other medicines, and not medicine X will cure their illness. Person A takes Medicine X and lives, B and C take other medicines and die. No matter how hard they believe or wish these other medicines would cure them, they do not, because Medicine X is the only one that can cure them. Plain and simple. It is not a matter of belief or one being "better". It is a case of one being right and others being wrong.

This Christian Liberalism you express is one of the most dangerous lines of thinking for Christianity. There is some compromise on certain things (mentioned above), but on some things, there can be no compromise.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my views.

To believe that the words in the bible are the words of god you must first believe that the men who wrote them had some kind of connection to god, which is an amazingly bold and unjustifiable assertion. How do you come to the conclusion that some people actually "talked" to god? Because someone told you or it was written in a book, quite conclusive. "It is a case of one being right and others being wrong." is an egotistical and highly ignorant statement. If the christian god does exist I'd rather burn for eternity and live a live a thoughtful and rational life than live a ridiculous, indoctrinated, and unthinking life and live forever in heaven.

Hey shiz, I thought I made it clear that if you were just going to flame, then to just move on. But, thank you for strengthening my point about Christians being much nicer and caring than non-Christians, generally speaking. I do believe that the words in the Bible were divinely inspired, and I have no way to justify/prove that - that's why Christians have this little thing called FAITH. Just because you can't accept something on faith doesn't mean it is not there. I do believe people "talked" to God. Heck, I have "talked" to God plenty of times.

Nothing about my post above it ignorant or egotistical. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of things in life that are absolute truths. You can't believe that you can get in shape by either 1.) dieting and exercising, or 2.) Sitting on the couch eating pizza and drinking beer. Of those 2 ways, only one will work! Plain and simple. It's the same way I view Christianity, it is the only way. The belief that I subscribe to mandates that. Just because you don't agree with it does not somehow magically make me ignorant and egotistical. Try better the next time you come in here, guns blazing, trying to cut me down. I'll beat you every time.

You would seriously rather "burn for eternity" than look at what Christianity has to offer? Are you writing this from a mental hospital or something? Just what is it about Christianity that you hate so much? See, that's the difference between you and I. You disagree with Christianity and as a result hate it. I disagree with your beliefs, and leave it at that. I actually wish you did not believe that way, and wish that you would come to know some of the things that I know. My life is far from "ridiculous", "indoctrinated", and "unthinking".

Look back at both of our posts. Mine is simply my beliefs and a response to this thread's question. Your's is a hate-filled rant, directed towards myself. You be the judge. From a 3rd-party perpective, which of us would you rather sit down and hang out with?...

 

[jyates]

Sorry......I didn't know truth and knowledge had expiration dates on them