yet another build 'help' thread ..

[RIjon]

Hello folks,

I do a great deal of graphic work for my business. I use PS CS3, Coreldraw x4, AutoCad/mastercam.... and a few other supporting programs. Most are open at the same time.

I also do a bit of gaming (on/off line). I actually stopped buying games because the current rig is not adequate anymore. I do plan on playing the newest, most intensive games with the new rig.


Budget is under $2000. Will be ordering ASAP.

This is starting from scratch.
Full Tower ~ Antec Twelve Hundred Black ? (hate the small boxes with no room)
PSU ~ Corsair 650w ?
MB ~ (Must have printer port ) Do these even exist anymore?
CPU ~ Intel i7 ? (Want to stick with Intel )
RAM ~ (More is better)
GPU ~ GeForce GTX 295 ?
Harddrives ~ I own one Sata 200g already. WD VelociRaptor will be ordered .....
Sound card ~ ????
DVD burner/player ~ Blu-ray ????

OS ~ I am still using XP PRO. To be honest, I am fearful of Vista. Most of my friends have had pretty good luck with it, BUT ....they just check email and surf the web. Windows 7...... I have no idea, nor have I read anything to influence me .....


The most important thing here is stability. I will not be overclocking. This is my business, and I cannot be testing, fixing, replacing stuff constantly.

I have been reading on this site for years. I would come on, read for days, figure out what was the hot ticket items and put them all in my wish list, then get cold feet at the last minute. Well, it is time to dig in and start ordering. the problem is, the rig I cobbled together last time is outdated already. So, I am asking for help.

I just want to keep it simple. No water cooling or fancy stuff.

Thank you very much for any/all help.

Jon in Rhode Island, USA

 

[Kraeoss]

Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128378
unfortunately you will have to convert your printers to usb...

Cpu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&Tpk=Phenom%20II%20955

Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820146828 x2

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817703019

GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127427

Case
Antec 1200 http://www.newegg.com/Product/...29043&Tpk=aNTEC%201200

HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136284

the rest is up to you...

 

[alyarb]

considering that graphical content creation is involved, I think I would spend the extra $150 and notch it up to a bloomfield system.

 

[RIjon]

Thanks for the replies. I think I will stick with Intel and the i7. The reading I do the more it seems just heads & tails ahead of AMD. I have always been an Intel guy in the past.....

alyarb, do you have a link to the bloomfield? I found a bunch of reviews on it....but no where did I find it for sale ?


Thoughts on the ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 ATX Intel Motherboard ? Too much ??

Thanks,
Jon

 

[alyarb]

bloomfield = i7. In the coming months we're going to see a huge variety of products based on this architecture so instead of saying "Core i7 with an X58 board and tri-chan DDR3," the platform name "bloomfield" is just a shorthand way of saying that all that and usually avoids confusion. You can't say "nehalem system" anymore because nobody will be able to tell exactly what you mean. But if you were to say lynnfield or havendale rather than bloomfield, it's both more concise and more precise because the platform name will tell you the number of cores, socket type, tdp, chipset, memory, and so forth.

The P6 deluxe is nice, but I would probably get the Gigabyte X58 UD4P or UD5 model. I've had such a great experience with those boards. But the thing is, all of these boards are high quality. If you aren't going to be overclocking, then you aren't going to really be putting any of your hardware to the test. I think you could get away with the "base model" P6T SE for $209.

 

[RIjon]

Gotcha, thank you for explaining.


Do you think the 920 would be adequate ?

 

[Mundos]

yes. the 920 is more than adequate. for everything. and you can oc it without voltage increases with no risk of damaging anything with stock cooling! not doing that would be like not accepting free money. lol.

 

[alyarb]

yeah that is what i had in mind. There's a lot of promotional pricing going on right now for 6GB kits of DDR3. Since this is going to be your work system for the long-haul, may as well get that out of the way now. This means you are going to need a copy of Windows XP x64, which I freely advocate all the time because Vista is an unnecessary spectacle for no-nonsense business machines.

I also agree with mundos. It is very tempting to turn people onto overclocking but I wouldn't recommend it in your case. It is as addicting as gambling, and you always want to throw money at the cooling system to get more. If i were you, I wouldn't worry about overclocking right away. Enjoy your system for a little while the way it is.

In a few months, you can spend $40 on a heatsink and get an additional 1000 MHz out of it. Do you need that extra speed right away? No. Regardless of what frequency the chip runs at, this will be the fastest machine you've ever used. You can always overclock later, and it won't make your system unstable (unless you've configured some very unreasonable parameters = unlikely). This isn't like overclocking K7 chips or Celerons. A modern CPU on average has 600 to 1200 Mhz of perfectly stable headroom for overclocking without requiring excessive voltage of trial-and-error configuration. People will spend sleepless nights agonizing over a few settings so that they can get from 4.05 to 4.15 GHz, even I am guilty of that. But for your purposes, you could dial in a 3.6-3.75 GHz overclock and never have a worry because that is a very conservative speed.

Also, don't get a GTX 295, get a GTX 275 or radeon 4890. GPU technology evolves more than twice as fast as CPU technology. As far as video cards go, you will be much happier if you spend $200 every two years rather than $500 every four years. I can only advocate the 295 if you will be playing crysis at 2560x1600. In other games, you couldn't tell a 295 from a 4890. They're all fast.

 

[RIjon]

Exactly what I wanted to hear!

OK, so the 920 i7 locked. The PSU is easy. The case is pretty simple...along with the peripherals.

Need a MB, GPU, and RAM. ( I have always had piss poor luck with my RAM choices. I am not qualified to choose)

What do you guys think about the MB I posted above? ASUS P6T Deluxe V2

I really appreciate this .... seriously

 

[alyarb]

Like I said, the P6T Deluxe is a very nice, very decked-out motherboard. It's one of their highest-end X58 boards. You get three full-speed PEG slots where your system only needs one. You get two ethernet controllers when you only need one. You get an active cooler that hooks up to an elaborate heatpipe that connects the southbridge, northbridge, and vrms, and i'm thinking that you don't need that either. ASUS makes great motherboards and in the late 90's I was all about them, but in the particular context of X58 boards, you do not need to pay $280 for a good board anymore. Everyone feared X58 pricing at the end of 2008 because this is Intel's flagship and everyone knew they would be justified in raping us, but the fact is, there are sub $200 boards that work great now and would totally fulfill your needs. They are stable, feature rich, overclock great, and so forth. Some of them have 4 DIMMs instead of 6 and 2 PEG slots instead of 3. Big deal, it saves $100. The P6T deluxe is a flashy board for gamers and overclockers and they spared no expense on it.

In your case, I recommend a Gigabyte EX58-UD3R or Foxconn FlamingBlade. Those boards are $200 and $209 respectively. The money you save on the motherboard should go towards 12GB of memory instead of 6GB, a small SSD, or a high-performance silent heat-tower style cooler instead of the shameless piece of shit intel gives you. I'm just thinking about cost effective things you can do to make your system better rather than blowing money on nebulous motherboard junk. People are getting great overclocks with those $200 boards, so you can be assured they are of no lesser quality than a P6T. One review of the foxconn board said he took a i7 920 to 3.6 GHz without modifying any voltages. That's the kind of thing I would love to see for this build. And at any rate, gigabyte and foxconn offer better support than ASUS nowadays anyhow.

 

[elconejito]

RIjon I don't want to dissuade you from XP but........... If you're going to go with 64-bit you're much better off with Vista x64 than XP x64. Starting with CS3, go browse through the Adobe forums and look at the tons of people with issues trying to run it on XP x64 (32bit is perfectly fine). There are issues some people have with Vista x64, but no where near that of XP x64. And in general driver support is much better on Vista x64 than XP x64.

If you are planning on upgrading to CS4 anytime soon, CS4 makes WAY better use of multiple cores. And if you're going i7 you have tons of threads to throw at it. CS3 makes more use of GHz than cores. Meaning, CS3 will run as good on an e8400 than an i7. On the other hand CS4 on an i7 will run circles around an e8400.

The choice is your obviously, but I'd highly urge you to make sure you went and checked to make sure all of your equipment like printers, scanners, etc, and all of your programs (besides CS3) will run on XP x64. It's better to spend a little time now, than put this whole thing together and realize it won't work for you. Otherwise, you may as well stay below 4GB of RAM to keep 32-bit XP, but that seems like such a waste with the rest of your machine being so high-end. When I switched to Vista x64 the only things that did not run for me were my Palm Treo synch (I ended up finding a bluetooth workaround), and an old scanner (for which I bought a new one).

 

[elconejito]

Oh and btw I have that Antec 1200. It is fantastic...

 

[RIjon]

I am a bit worried about things not being compatible. The biggest things being the equipment. I run CNC lasers off the machine ...but they work like printers, so it should be ok.

My Iphone should be ok....




Do you guys have a preference on the GPU manufacturer? XFX, EVGA, MSI ......??

Same question for RAM ? Crucial, G.Skill, OCZ, corsair, etc... ??


So far I have

Foxconn MB
Intel 920 i7
1200 case
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V
GTX 275 GPU
Aftermarket heatsink of some sort ???


Thanks again,
Jon

 

[Pantlegz]

EVGA is amazing as far as gpu's are concerned. lifetime warranty, step up and amazing customer service.

As far as ram goes I've always been partial to OCZ, they've never done me wrong. Good customer service as well.

If you're not going to overclock the stock heatsink is fine.

 

[elconejito]

Originally posted by: RIjon
I am a bit worried about things not being compatible. The biggest things being the equipment. I run CNC lasers off the machine ...but they work like printers, so it should be ok.

Definitely just take 10mins and go check the manufacturers website for drivers. It will save you many sleepless nights. If they have drivers, you're golden. If they don't, then look for vista drivers. If they don't have either.......

Originally posted by: RIjon
My Iphone should be ok....

For the longest time Quicktime was unsupported on 64-bit (XP or Vista). I don't know about iTunes since I don't use it, but again just take 10minutes to find out before you go get all this stuff.

Originally posted by: RIjon
Do you guys have a preference on the GPU manufacturer? XFX, EVGA, MSI ......??

Personally, I don't have a perference, but many like EVGA because of their trade-up program.

Originally posted by: RIjon
Same question for RAM ? Crucial, G.Skill, OCZ, corsair, etc... ??

I'm not tied to any particular brand, but G.Skill has been very good to me in my last few builds. Buy a good brand (like those you listed) and find one that meets the performance/price you want. Then google that model along with your motherboard to see if there are any conflicts.

Originally posted by: RIjon
So far I have

Foxconn MB
Intel 920 i7
1200 case
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V
GTX 275 GPU
Aftermarket heatsink of some sort ???


Thanks again,
Jon

You're on the right track

 

[RIjon]

Good info, thanks

I am a little apprehensive about this Foxconn board. I can't find anyone on here that has used one.... and there is only 3 reviews on newegg. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for a more documented board and time tested board.

I do not like being a test mule for computer stuff.

I also decided on this Video card. It seems 4890 has been giving more "all around" performance, pound for pound, then the 275. I am just interpreting this info wrong?
Considering I do not really have the desire to OC myself, I figure I could spend the extra $50 for the pre-oc'd card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150360

I do feel more comfortable with the nVidia cards in general, but the x850xt card I have been flogging for years has been flawless. So whatever


PLEASE correct me on any of these thoughts, I know just enough to be dangerous here.....



Thanks again,
Jon

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: elconejito

Originally posted by: RIjon
My Iphone should be ok....

For the longest time Quicktime was unsupported on 64-bit (XP or Vista). I don't know about iTunes since I don't use it, but again just take 10minutes to find out before you go get all this stuff.

Originally posted by: RIjon
Do you guys have a preference on the GPU manufacturer? XFX, EVGA, MSI ......??

Personally, I don't have a perference, but many like EVGA because of their trade-up program.

Latest iTunes works just fine on Vista 64-bit. Not sure about Quicktime.

For the record BFG has a trade-up program as well.

Originally posted by: RIjon
I also decided on this Video card. It seems 4890 has been giving more "all around" performance, pound for pound, then the 275. I am just interpreting this info wrong?
Considering I do not really have the desire to OC myself, I figure I could spend the extra $50 for the pre-oc'd card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150360

I do feel more comfortable with the nVidia cards in general, but the x850xt card I have been flogging for years has been flawless. So whatever

You may want to look into CUDA support for Adobe products. I think there may be some CUDA accelerated filters (but I could be wrong). CUDA is limited to NVIDIA GPUs only.

 

[RIjon]

The more I think about this, the more the Asus v2 board appeals to me. I say that due to the lack of Printer ports.

I have the option on my lasers to utilize Ethernet connectivity. Might as well have two nic cards and bypass the router eh?

Also, with Zap's information, I think I will be staying with nVidia cards. You guys think I am all set with one card ? I don't really understand all the SLI/ crossfire stuff.......

Decisions........

 

[alyarb]

get the ASUS board if it makes you feel better. stay with the GTX 275.

 

[elconejito]

According to this link at Adobe.com it says "Photoshop CS4 takes advantage of only one GPU on your display card, even if more GPUs are present". That sounds like it's referring to dual GPU cards, they don't mention SLI/Crossfire specifically. However, if you look at what is accelerated by the GPU, I can't imagine spending $$$ for a second video card makes sense. But it supports both ATI and Nvidia, so go with whichever brand floats your boat.

 

[RIjon]

Ok, I have changed a few things....

Went with a combo deal on the MB & VGA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.187801

Same CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115202

PSU I upgraded to the 750w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817139006

I went with 12gb OCZ RAM ( wanted the platinum, but it was not in stock )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227422

Antec 1200 case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129043



I would like you guys to give me your opinions please. I have been going over this for days..... reading, comparing, reading, banging my head against the wall....
Most of the items at this level are pretty dang close. It doesn't make it very easy to "just pick one". I rather pay a bit more and have good stuff then skimp and get screwed.

My biggest reason for the EVGA items, came by reading the reviews. Not because they were all pretty good (they are)........ but because almost every single poor review...... had a reply from "Jacob" .....acting like he gave a crap. I really didn't see that on the other manufacturers. Lets face it, shit happens...... it's how its handled after the fact that makes the difference.

Thank you all for your time,
Jon

 

[alyarb]

evga has top notch support, to be sure. what i don't like about them is that they insist on actively cooling their chipsets with the most annoying fans on earth. the QPI hub does not need a fan. Most X58 boards have no fan. Insane overclocks have been achieved without a fan. why does EVGA insist on a fan? i don't know, but if it bothers you, do not hesitate to unplug it, because it is quite audible.

The 650w corsair is made by Seasonic and the 750w model is made by channel well. Seasonic is simply a more reliable manufacturer. I own the 650 and love it. You do not need the 750, so consider that.

buying memory that doesn't have any posted reviews may be risky, especially when you consider $200 for 12 gigs is incredibly cheap. 6 DIMMs is a large load on the memory controller. You will have to make sure your vdimm is set to 1.65 or a little more, and it might help your stability to set the QPI voltage to 1.4, but frankly, I would not buy that memory. A low-priced 12 gig kit with high clocks and tight timings and zero customer feedback is a far, far riskier prospect than a $209 foxconn X58. And to be honest, OCZ is not a premium brand. You've got to know the distinction between cutting cost and cutting corners. You can cut cost on the motherboard, for instance, because all X58 boards are basically great. You cannot, however, sort a list of DIMM kits by price and automatically go for the cheapest and hope for the best. DIMMs, despite the phallic geometry implied by their namesake, are mostly like women.

it's got to be XMS3, "deal or no deal," as they say.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145235

 

[RIjon]

ah, I agree. Didn't even see that there was no reviews on that ram.

Good info about the PSU, I had no idea. I have the corsair 620 in this current rig and it has been flawless.

Thanks again....

 

[alyarb]

The 620 is a seasonic unit. also great.

 

[RIjon]

Thinking about running this for my OS & Progs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820233075

It is receiving very good reviews due to all the Samsung internals....and no studdering. I have a WD 500 and will be buying a WD 640 for mass.

Thoughts?