Yet Another Certification Thread

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trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Man, talk about thread hijackers!

I'm going to install either Debian or White Box tonight, haven't decided yet. Whitebox was kind of a pain to get, since like 70% of the mirrors where dead, and the torrent was not finding many peers. Finally just let it run all day while I was at work. Hope it's done when I get home!
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
Originally posted by: trmiv
Man, talk about thread hijackers!

I'm going to install either Debian or White Box tonight, haven't decided yet. Whitebox was kind of a pain to get, since like 70% of the mirrors where dead, and the torrent was not finding many peers. Finally just let it run all day while I was at work. Hope it's done when I get home!

Funny, I didn't have any problem downloading it, it went on at a good ~600 KB/Sec, even a tad faster at home.
Maybe I'm just lucky

n0c, I think maybe I'll just try that right away, I've got an old Adaptec 2940 and a unipack here
 

HKSturboKID

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
1,816
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Only 3 computers? My former play lan was atleast 10.
hahaha...n0cmonkey,

I have the same setup.
I have 3 cisco 2501 routers
1 1924 switch
1 4000 series router
and 8 PC to complete my home lab.

As for the prices on routers. The basic one is 2501 but make sure you get something with at least 16mb Flash / 16mb Dram and at least v12 IOS and up. They should run around $80-$100 each.
 

CrowBarr

Senior member
Nov 27, 2003
867
0
76
Not trying to thread crap or anything, but if you want to get ahold of at least one router, PM me. I've got a Cisco 1720 modular. Haven't messed with it in awhile, but if memory serves (no pun intended) it's 16mb flash 32mb dram. I don't remember what IOS version tho...
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: trmiv
I tried this in OT, but I think I'll have better luck here. OK, this is yet another cert thread. Basically I'm looking to move up in the job world. Here's a quick summary of where I'm at, and what I'm looking for.

I currently have: BS in Business, concentration in MIS

I currently do: Desktop Support

Want to move into: Systems administration, eventually something systems/network security related.


Basically I want to move up in the world. Desktop support is OK and all, but I don't want to do it for the rest of my life. I'm looking for a cert to get my foot in the door a little further up the chain. Keep in mind I'm not looking for the end-all of certs, just something to start me on my way. I fully intend to keep pursuing more certs, experience, etc. Also, I realize there is no substitute for experience, but try to tell an HR person that. Here are my options as I see them, feel free to correct me if I'm completely off-base.

CCNA
MCSE Windows Server 2003
Some type of Unix or Linux cert. Not sure what to go for here, or what is even respected at all in the industry. (I realize this is a very different direction from the Microsoft certs, just curious if a cert in this is viable).
Something I don't know about.


Also, in a somewhat different direction is trying to get a Citrix cert.

So, advice? Am I totally off-base here?

The CIsco certifications are well respected, especially the higher level ones. The MS and Linux certifications are not. We actually found that on average, people without MSCEs were better job candidates than people with them.

As for security, there are two well-respected certifications: CISSP and GIAC. CISSP is broader and more theoretical, whereas GIAC is more technically oriented. If you've got the requisite experience, you can probably pass the CISSP test with a good one week prep course.
 

bdmst16

Member
Oct 22, 2004
31
0
0
It really depends on what you want to do. If you're more into system administration then look more at MCSA/MCSE. If you would like network administration then go with CCNA/CCNP.

Right now I'm finishing up my MCSA then MCSE. I have one more year left in to finish a masters in telecom, and then hopefully get my CCNA.

So my path with cert is looking like this:

Network+ -> A+ -> MCSA 2000 -> MCSE 2000 -> CCNA -> MCSE 2003 upgrade -> CCNP

Hopefully within the next 5 years.

I would also say that I would rather spend $1500 -2000 (however much Cisco classes cost) and put that towards your lab. For CCNA you'll need at least 2 routers (2500 or 2600) and one switch (I believe 2900 since 1900 are no longer used)

As soon as I'm done with my MCSE I'll be picking up as much Cisco gear as I can afford and my wife will allow
 

jdixon

Member
Apr 23, 2003
26
0
0
I've hired and fired people with these alphabet soup certs for about 10 yrs now, and I came up through the ranks myself. Apologies that this post is so long, but I want to tell you the straight scoop (especially beyond overated but necessary certs).

1. Certs only get you past the resume screening. Certs just suggest you have initiative, some professionalism, and can learn. What you have to know will basically be learned through OJT, because the real world has 1000s of permutations of systems and networks.

2. The best advice by far in this thread is build your own lab, except the lab you build for sysadm play is quite different from netadm play. A sysadm setup will have diverse networked and interoperable OS hosts (both DT & NB PCs), with numerous peripherals for learning backup, san, nas, etc. A netadm setup will be a minimal CCNP setup (you can get equip. list of cisco website, but buy used) plus a few extras. You'll need to set up a few hosts (to manage routing, etc.) and services (to manage b'cast impact, etc.), but not much more is needed from hosts.

3. Don't try to be expert at both sysadm & netadm at the same time; this can only come with time. Learn to do one well and learn just enough of the other to support the former. You are more valuable as an adm with "deep" knowledge than with "broad" knowledge.

4. People with excellent troubleshooting and problem-solving skills ALWAYS stand out and are highly valued.

5. If I need a sysadm, I don't care about cisco. If you really want to be a kick*ss sysadm beyond certs, learn adm basics (e.g., backups), service interoperability (winxp-linux-solaris-mac) and security hands-on (not from a book or in pristine environment) - - CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THIS.

6. If I need a netadm, I don't care too much (but just a little) about MS or Linux, except that he/she can configure/tune a host stack or instruct someone else. I need my netadm to know and apply fundamental design, performance and security principles - - I am so sick of CCNAs and CCNPs who only know a few cisco commands and how to connect boxes. Focus on hands-on design, troubleshooting, and security - - CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THIS.

7. If I need a combo of sys and net, I either (a) really need one skill set more than the other, (b) really need to do two hires but can't afford both, or (c) really want one hire to satisfy both but run the risk of a disastrous situation (over-worked, under-paid, my org too dependent on one person). What you want as a candidate is this: a chance to do one well, and a chance to learn the other.

8. As a candidate, you're better just presenting your real strengths and let them know you can fill-in-the-gaps because you've already mastered one-half of what's needed. I can't count the number of candidates who eliminated themselves because they talked as though they knew it all but ended up saying something stupid or absurd in the interview.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: jdixon
I've hired and fired people with these alphabet soup certs for about 10 yrs now, and I came up through the ranks myself. Apologies that this post is so long, but I want to tell you the straight scoop (especially beyond overated but necessary certs).

1. Certs only get you past the resume screening. Certs just suggest you have initiative, some professionalism, and can learn. What you have to know will basically be learned through OJT, because the real world has 1000s of permutations of systems and networks.

2. The best advice by far in this thread is build your own lab, except the lab you build for sysadm play is quite different from netadm play. A sysadm setup will have diverse networked and interoperable OS hosts (both DT & NB PCs), with numerous peripherals for learning backup, san, nas, etc. A netadm setup will be a minimal CCNP setup (you can get equip. list of cisco website, but buy used) plus a few extras. You'll need to set up a few hosts (to manage routing, etc.) and services (to manage b'cast impact, etc.), but not much more is needed from hosts.

3. Don't try to be expert at both sysadm & netadm at the same time; this can only come with time. Learn to do one well and learn just enough of the other to support the former. You are more valuable as an adm with "deep" knowledge than with "broad" knowledge.

4. People with excellent troubleshooting and problem-solving skills ALWAYS stand out and are highly valued.

5. If I need a sysadm, I don't care about cisco. If you really want to be a kick*ss sysadm beyond certs, learn adm basics (e.g., backups), service interoperability (winxp-linux-solaris-mac) and security hands-on (not from a book or in pristine environment) - - CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THIS.

6. If I need a netadm, I don't care too much (but just a little) about MS or Linux, except that he/she can configure/tune a host stack or instruct someone else. I need my netadm to know and apply fundamental design, performance and security principles - - I am so sick of CCNAs and CCNPs who only know a few cisco commands and how to connect boxes. Focus on hands-on design, troubleshooting, and security - - CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THIS.

7. If I need a combo of sys and net, I either (a) really need one skill set more than the other, (b) really need to do two hires but can't afford both, or (c) really want one hire to satisfy both but run the risk of a disastrous situation (over-worked, under-paid, my org too dependent on one person). What you want as a candidate is this: a chance to do one well, and a chance to learn the other.

8. As a candidate, you're better just presenting your real strengths and let them know you can fill-in-the-gaps because you've already mastered one-half of what's needed. I can't count the number of candidates who eliminated themselves because they talked as though they knew it all but ended up saying something stupid or absurd in the interview.

Great post!
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Start off with the CompTIAs. Get a Network+, Security+, and Linux+.

Then CCNA and MCSA definitely.

You need at least 3 (or 5?) years direct security experience to be eligible for the CISSP.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Thanks for the advice here. I read so much about it not being about certs, but about experience. I am well aware of that fact, believe me. The problem is, it becomes difficult to get the experience unless you have something to at least get your foot in the door. How am I supposed to get real-world on the job experience, when I can't get a job to begin with? That's the problem I'm having now.

I actually do have pretty good troubleshooting and problem solving skills. I am naturally that way, but 4 years of tech support and desktop support have enhanced that.

I'd like to focus more on system admin than network admin. In that case my best bet is probably A+ then Network+ then MCSA 2003 (A+ and Network+ can be used as electives for this). Then possibly security+ and then the security specialization of MCSA. Eventually working my way to a CISSP after gaining some experience. How does that look?
 

Stiganator

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2001
2,489
0
76
I hear CCIEs can name their price, there's only like a couple thousand in the world, but the downside is the test costs 2,000 and there's a 80% failure rate. CCNA is a good start. I'd recommend a linux+, wireless networking, MSCA.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
CCNA and MCSA seem to be the most recommened for me. What I'm trying to figure out is, which would be the best start? I want to start moving in a direction, just trying to figure out the best first step.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: trmiv
CCNA and MCSA seem to be the most recommened for me. What I'm trying to figure out is, which would be the best start? I want to start moving in a direction, just trying to figure out the best first step.

If you want to do Systems Administration, then start with the MCSA. If you want to do Network Engineering, then start with Network+ then CCNA.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Since A+ and Network+ are accepted as electives for MCSA, would it be a good idea just to start with those? Or just go straight MCSA?
 

Splitfyre

Member
Dec 13, 2002
44
0
0
All Microsoft Certs are a joke. The company I work for which is a leader in the software business, would expect you to have your Bachelor's in Computer Science if you want to do anything relating to networking and/or security.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: Splitfyre
All Microsoft Certs are a joke. The company I work for which is a leader in the software business, would expect you to have your Bachelor's in Computer Science if you want to do anything relating to networking and/or security.

I have to disagree. It doesn't matter that you think they are a joke - what matters is that HR and IT Managers find them valuable, and tend to make them prereqs.

Agreed on the bachelor's degree. If you want to aim for the higher level management jobs, bachelors will help.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: Splitfyre
All Microsoft Certs are a joke. The company I work for which is a leader in the software business, would expect you to have your Bachelor's in Computer Science if you want to do anything relating to networking and/or security.

I have to disagree. It doesn't matter that you think they are a joke - what matters is that HR and IT Managers find them valuable, and tend to make them prereqs.

Agreed on the bachelor's degree. If you want to aim for the higher level management jobs, bachelors will help.


I have a Bachelors in MIS, not in computer science though.

Funny though, I've found the majority of the people I've met that work networking, security, and system admin jobs DON'T have a degree, either computer science or MIS. Most of them have a lot of experience and/or certifications.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: trmiv
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: Splitfyre
All Microsoft Certs are a joke. The company I work for which is a leader in the software business, would expect you to have your Bachelor's in Computer Science if you want to do anything relating to networking and/or security.

I have to disagree. It doesn't matter that you think they are a joke - what matters is that HR and IT Managers find them valuable, and tend to make them prereqs.

Agreed on the bachelor's degree. If you want to aim for the higher level management jobs, bachelors will help.

I have a Bachelors in MIS, not in computer science though.

Funny though, I've found the majority of the people I've met that work networking, security, and system admin jobs DON'T have a degree, either computer science or MIS. Most of them have a lot of experience and/or certifications.

Your Bachelors in MIS is going to be invaluable in the future, I really wish I had mine. Those people you have met will advance to tier 2 support, then all of their job changes will be lateral. Get yourself the experience and certs that they have, and eventually you'll pass tier2 and into chief management or architect status.
 
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